Top 10 Vuelta; who's clean?

[Parrot23]

Hard to say, but there's this.... Two races.

General Classification after Stage 20
1 CONTADOR VELASCO, Alberto (SAXO BANK-TINKOFF BANK) 82:14:52
2 VALVERDE BELMONTE, Alejandro (MOVISTAR) + 1:16
3 RODRIGUEZ OLIVER, Joaquin (KATUSHA) + 1:37

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................



4 FROOME, Christopher (SKY PROCYCLING) + 10:16
5 MORENO FERNANDEZ, Daniel (KATUSHA) + 11:29
6 GESINK, Robert (RABOBANK) + 12:23
7 TALANSKY, Andrew (GARMIN-SHARP) + 13:28
8 TEN DAM, Laurens (RABOBANK) + 13:41
9 ANTON HERNANDEZ, Igor (EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI) + 14:01
10 INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Benat (MOVISTAR) + 16:13

 

[Walkman]

So basicaly:
Southern Europeans = drugged
Northern Euorpoeans and Americans= clean

Don't you agree?!

we all know how much those spanish love the PEDs

 

[CasperVg]

I'm pessimistic enough to say none at all. At least I like to think that, so I can say "at least everyone is at an even level"

 

[luckyboy]

Pretty much established that there's no such thing as a level playing field when 'everyone' is doping.

Maybe Talanksy? Certainly nobody ahead of him. Who knows

 

[twisted pairs]

I think it's funny and people are saying with any kind of confidence that Talansky is clean. On what grounds? His DS? Please.

You just can't know.

 

[McK-cycling]

Danny Nelissen [former pro-cyclist], dutch commentator for eurosport has put his reputation on the line by claiming he'd put his hands in the fire for the rabobank riders currently riding the vuelta.

For what its worth.

 

[Arnout]

"Location: Texas"
lol

Game. Set. Match. Tournament.

 

[Arnout]

Danny Nelissen [former pro-cyclist], dutch commentator for eurosport has put his reputation on the line by claiming he'd put his hands in the fire for the rabobank riders currently riding the vuelta.

For what its worth.

Ah, but isn't he of the same nationality? Biased, meaning his opinion is rubbish. It might be true, it might not be, but not because of the hands of mr Nelissen.

 

[luckyboy]

Roche in 12th, Bouet 20th, Pauriol 23rd are the highest on GC I'd have a good deal of faith in. Not saying much is it?

Some riders in the top 20 I don't know much about results-wise etc, so it's not to say everyone is doping.

But yeah nobody knows so it's a bit silly to speculate.

 

[workingclasshero]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ucis-suspicious-list-leaked-from-2010-tour-de-france

i meant this list is based on accordance of blood parameters of biopasport which may not work today. so it could turn our comparisons from overly hypothetical into almost absurd ones.

i hear you brother.

cheers for the link.

bit funny seeing f. schleck score a meagre 3.

or Lance a 4

Contador scored a 5 and was caught shortly after, but we already knew that when the list was leaked, so not too interesting.

not that many of them have been caught really.

shame. the liste wasn't that much of a laugh after all. Maybe in another two years we can take a look at it and say "it was spot on" or "how could this and that rider score 0 points when we know all the stuff they've been up to?"

 

[luckyboy]

Pretty sure that there was talk that the chart also took into account whether riders were tested much in the run-up, and also on surprise performances.

heh, I like how the three riders I just named scored 0 in that

@workingclasshero: Barredo, who is a 10 there, has had bio-passport troubles recently. Rabobank took him out of competition after the Dauphine so he's 'inactive'. Last I heard is that more news would be forthcoming this month.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Menchov a 9...

Hasn'nt done much since. Think the UCI had a friendly chat with him?

 

[burning]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ucis-suspicious-list-leaked-from-2010-tour-de-france

i meant this list is based on accordance of blood parameters of biopasport which may not work today. so it could turn our comparisons from overly hypothetical into almost absurd ones.

The part which I laughed so badly is that Noval got a 5

Even though you put him on a program like Armstrong's one, he would be still the worst rider in protour teams

 

[workingclasshero]

Pretty sure that there was talk that the chart also took into account whether riders were tested much in the run-up, and also on surprise performances.

heh, I like how the three riders I just named scored 0 in that

@workingclasshero: Barredo, who is a 10 there, has had bio-passport troubles recently. Rabobank took him out of competition after the Dauphine so he's 'inactive'. Last I heard is that more news would be forthcoming this month.

ta fella

characters

 

[hrotha]

The part which I laughed so badly is that Noval got a 5

Even though you put him on a program like Armstrong's one, he would be still the worst rider in protour teams

Maybe you didn't know, but he actually rode for US Postal/Discovery for 4 years straight, and he made the Tour de France team all 4 years.

Before that, he got some pretty decent results at Fuenlabrada. A small 2nd Division team, god knows what kind of things they were using there.

 

[roundabout]

Back in his early USPS years he could still get some results himself.

But even now he can ride circles around this guy

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=8302

Very likely one of the worst top division riders ever

 

[burning]

Maybe you didn't know, but he actually rode for US Postal/Discovery for 4 years straight, and he made the Tour de France team all 4 years.

Before that, he got some pretty decent results at Fuenlabrada. A small 2nd Division team, god knows what kind of things they were using there.

I am aware of that and he got 2 top 10 in Volta Catalunya years ago but right now he's pretty much useless

 

[Ferminal]

Maybe Talansky, Ten Dam, Benat.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Answered with The Clinic cliches:

1. Contador - Dirty Spanish
2. Valverde - Dirty Spanish
3. Rodriguez - Dirty Spanish
4. Froome - Sky dopes
5. Moreno - Dirty Spanish
6. Gesink - Team Human Plasma
7. Talansky - clean Anglophone
8. Ten Dam- Team Human Plasma
9. Anton - Dirty Spanish
10. Intxausti - Dirty Spanish

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

7. Talansky - clean Anglophone

He has Sky in his name. That alone will give people reason to suspect.

 

[Runitout]

The racist attitudes implcit in many of the responses are laughable.

There is no more reason to suspect Rodriguez than Talansky.

If any of them are clean, they get a chapeau bas from me. Doubt I'll be reaching for my hat any time soon, though I hope I am wrong.

 

[131313]

The racist attitudes implcit in many of the responses are laughable.

There is no more reason to suspect Rodriguez than Talansky.

If any of them are clean, they get a chapeau bas from me. Doubt I'll be reaching for my hat any time soon, though I hope I am wrong.

"racist"? Please, stop with this nonsense. First off, I didn't know that "Spanish" was a race. Secondly, if you don't see a difference in the way the Spanish "anti-doping" agency handles doping versus USADA, then you're beyond help.

The Spanish federations are pretty much supportive of its riders' doping, much the way the US was when USOC managed the results.

 

[Runitout]

"racist"? Please, stop with this nonsense. First off, I didn't know that "Spanish" was a race.

I didn't say it was.

A good percentage of the posts treated the English speaking or 'white' riders from the position that they were less likely to be doping, and the southern European brown riders as being more likely to be doping, with no justification provided.

I see the same sort of bigotry played out throughout the Anglophone cycling press.

If you don't think there's a racial reason for it, you are, to your use your own words, beyond help. It's bullsh!t, and does us in the Clinic no credit.

Secondly, if you don't see a difference in the way the Spanish "anti-doping" agency handles doping versus USADA, then you're beyond help.

The Spanish federations are pretty much supportive of its riders' doping, much the way the US was when USOC managed the results.

The attitude of the Spanish federation is irrelevant, unless it is responsible for all of the athletes' testing. In order for it to go to the Federation, the rider first must test positive or be subject to an investigation.

I am not aware of any positive tests or open investigation - or even rumours - regarding Rodriguez, Anton, Inxtausti, etc. Want to fill in the gaps here, as I'd love to hear about how the Spanish Fed has covered it up?

None of that denies that the Spanish Fed does have a shocking reputation for going after their own. (Their police are quite active, though, and have gone further than the FDA did with US riders).

 

[Krebs cycle]

This thread is silly. It also shows the bias of people who assume someone like Intxausti must be doping while they give some much bigger names the benefit of the doubt.

No one is guaranteed to be clean.

The whole forum is silly hrotha. Nobody is guaranteed to be clean but neither are they guaranteed to be doping unless they actually test positive. The whole point of the forum however is to weigh and discuss the evidence for and against, but that isn't what happens. You have people like myself and numerous others who try to look at the most relevant evidence which are things like eyewitness testimony, involvement in a doping investigation, positive test results and impossible physical performances. Then you have others who simply dismiss all of that and believe that their hero is clean and everyone else is doping and nothing anyone can say will convince them otherwise.

10yrs ago if you asked me who I thought was doping in the top 10, I probably would have said "all of them". Nowadays, with the drop in performance level back to what is humanly possible my answer is "I haven't got a clue".

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

It is possible the top 10 in the Vuelta without doping in the last 10 years. While it is easy to just dismiss everyone as doping its quite feasible we are doing someone an injustice.