Total Disillusionment

[MarkvW]

You clearly weren't here 2009-2011. The clinic was 99.9% Armstrong. It was the global hq of Armstrong haters. The mods were even considering creating a seperate Armstrong forum. A very large % of the sky sceptics, including the op of this thread spent over 80% of their cn time and forums before cn, slamming armstrong and praying for his fall.

so to say these people didn't care about armstong and are just anti Wiggins is ludicrous.
in fact a lot of these posters only hate Wiggins because he took Armstrongs side and attacked Landis as a drunk liar for saying his hero lance doped.

And because sky modelled themselves after us postal.

By choosing Armstrong's side anr attacking those who went after him Wiggins made himself a target of wehatelance.com aka the clinic.

a lot of these same people turned against Contador not when he got caught but when he said lance was clean. Everyone who defended that scum sucker Armstrong and attacked his detractors is for pretty obvious and perfectly sensible reasons, not liked by the clinic.

strange theory. Any arguments to back it up?



Sorry from who does ricco get pitty. Here I thought it was 1 or 2 posters but you make it sound like the whole clinic.

And yes ricco was a scapegoat. Because people - riders, ex riders, commentators, who defended lance to the death and people who welcome basso and Contador and valverde back with open arms, told ricco he was unwelcome in cycling and to **** off.

That's not to say he wasn't a total **** and didn't deserve it, but he was a scapegoat.

I recall the Clinic as strongly anti-Armstrong after May, 2010, when Floyd dropped his bomb.

 

[Papa Kel]

Anyone who watches cycling and believes it is any cleaner than it was in the 90's or early 2000's is ignorant to the point of stupidity.

 

[blackcat]

Ah, the hotline, reminds me of the cartoon take on it from that online cycling site

Ricco: hello, is this doping hotline, i want to win grand fondo but Di Luca enter too
Mcquaid: hello, is that you Ricco. Hang up the phone you gob****e this is a UCI publicity stunt

sounds like crank yankers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KLEBYSsB-Q

 

[blackcat]

Anyone who watches cycling and believes it is any cleaner than it was in the 90's or early 2000's is ignorant to the point of stupidity.

if you can't add 1 + 1 then i can't help you

ullrich

 

[Blakeslee]

Another one two finish and complete domination by Sky. I'm having a lot of trouble believing this is credible when the entire team seems to be consistently riding at a higher level than the rest of the peloton.

 

[Ripper]

I think it works the other way too, people can't see past Brits being the new kings of cycling.

??

In that case, why hate Sky? Not exactly an all British team, is it.

So are you clueless or just baiting?

 

[D-Queued]

Another one two finish and complete domination by Sky. I'm having a lot of trouble believing this is credible when the entire team seems to be consistently riding at a higher level than the rest of the peloton.

This, thanks to JV, is my new most favorite reference:

http://www.phys.washington.edu/users/savage/Cycling/LookingAtTheData/AIC.html

When they won the TdF, both Evans and Wiggins were older and, on average, faster than Indurain in any of his 5 victories.

That is all I need to know. Obviously, Indurain was clean.

Dave.

 

[Ferminal]

Blame JV for linking to a source which uses average speeds as an argument... lolz.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I don't know about disillusioned, but I'm mystified. Why do you guys bother watching cycling? As far as I can see you're either hopelessly idealistic or masochistic. I'm not sure either is particularly healthy

You are missing what these guys are saying. They don't and won't want to watch cycling. There are zillions of us who are so disillusioned that a sport we thought we once knew and loved has degenerated into the primordial ooze of artificial entertainment!

As long as the UCI is run by the Pat McQuaids and Heine Verbruggen's of the world, and riders refuse to become transparent about their training programs, doping test results, hematocrit levels etc., cycling will always carry the taint of cheating. And who wants to watch any so-called "competition" where the starting point is that the race is probably full of dopers, cheats and liars.

If you don't find that disillusioning, I am mystified!

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You are missing what these guys are saying. They don't and won't want to watch cycling. There are zillions of us who are so disillusioned that a sport we thought we once knew and loved has degenerated into the primordial ooze of artificial entertainment!

As long as the UCI is run by the Pat McQuaids and Heine Verbruggen's of the world, and riders refuse to become transparent about their training programs, doping test results, hematocrit levels etc., cycling will always carry the taint of cheating. And who wants to watch any so-called "competition" where the starting point is that the race is probably full of dopers, cheats and liars.

If you don't find that disillusioning, I am mystified!

And yet, come the next big race, everyone will be back watching.

 

[doperhopper]

where else than into the "total disillusionment" should today's Lefevere go?

“There's never been organised doping use in my team,”

Well, also Uniballer can subscribe to this - as he confessed to Oprah, his style was total disorganised amateurism compared to the east germans. Completely uncoordinated - doctors did doping, riders did doping, managers did doping, motomans, mechanics, soigneurs... see, everyone messed everyone's way, no organisation at all.

 

[zalacain]

And yet, come the next big race, everyone will be back watching.

No I am already just watching highlights. After sixty odd years of following the sport I have found better things to do with my afternoons.

 

[SundayRider]

TBH even if they weren't doping, a team just buying the best talent would be a total bore fest, a bit like football has become, same teams winning year after year.

 

[the sceptic]

TBH even if they weren't doping, a team just buying the best talent would be a total bore fest, a bit like football has become, same teams winning year after year.

If Manchester United started buying 25 year old League 2 players and turned them into world class players then i would stop watching football too. But they havent done that yet at least. (maybe waiting for Brailsford to take his marginal talents to football like he said he might)

 

[del1962]

If Manchester United started buying 25 year old League 2 players and turned them into world class players then i would stop watching football too. But they havent done that yet at least. (maybe waiting for Brailsford to take his marginal talents to football like he said he might)

Actually that is something that has always gone on in football, picking footballers from lower leagues whether they be home leagues or now abroad looking for talent which sometimes needs developing, it is just now they look for them even younger, one former European Footballer of the Year started his career at S****horpe United.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

Actually that is something that has always gone on in football, picking footballers from lower leagues whether they be home leagues or now abroad looking for talent which sometimes needs developing, it is just now they look for them even younger, one former European Footballer of the Year started his career at S****horpe United.

Two of my favourite footballers Peter Beardsley and Chris Waddle were playing for Vancouver and Tow Law, respectively, prior to signing for Newcastle. Both went on to win numerous international caps and silverware for teams other than, unfortunately, Newcastle.

Football's different though. Huge pool of players and both the ones mentioned had sublime skills but were not exactly the best of athletes, which is probably why they were late developers.

 

[D-Queued]

Blame JV for linking to a source which uses average speeds as an argument... lolz.

Unfortunately for him, the findings do not provide much substance for his case.

Wiggo faster than Indurain? Pardon.

Prologue speeds showing 1:1 correlation with year?

Average speed may be a bit slower than some of the Armstrong years. But, they are still way faster than other eras.

It is understandable how peloton speed improved markedly when the peloton moved from fixed gear to Simplex. But there has been no similar technical advancement since EPO was discovered that could match its beneficial effects in its absence.

Dave.

 

[martinvickers]

If Manchester United started buying 25 year old League 2 players and turned them into world class players then i would stop watching football too. But they havent done that yet at least. (maybe waiting for Brailsford to take his marginal talents to football like he said he might)

Not sure about that - Chris Smalling came from Fulham, but he served his time in non-league football. Nick Powell has come in from League 1 and is apparently one of the 'dead certs' for the future. Most clubs take a punt from time to time - Ian Wright springs to mind at Palace...

 

[rghysens]

It is understandable how peloton speed improved markedly when the peloton moved from fixed gear to Simplex. But there has been no similar technical advancement since EPO was discovered that could match its beneficial effects in its absence.
Dave.

That's when the marginal gains come into play.

 

[D-Queued]

That's when the marginal gains come into play.

Exactly.

Amazing what happens when you turn the pedals one full revolution, instead of stopping half way around and coasting for 140 km.

Dave.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

No I am already just watching highlights. After sixty odd years of following the sport I have found better things to do with my afternoons.

Right but you are still watching the race.

 

[Hillavoider]

i have stopped following this sport, unfortunately i don't ride much either now as well

 

[diorgen]

i have stopped following this sport, unfortunately i don't ride much either now as well

I am afraid it's getting this way for me too. I am just so fed up.

 

[Race Radio]

i have stopped following this sport

I haven't. What are you going to do in July?

http://youtu.be/MCszGx9LZyk

 

[hiero2]

While I understand the disappointment and cynicism - I feel it strongly myself - I also continue to watch. I just wish I could believe that Sagan was clean, but until we achieve something better than what we have today, my suspicious quotient remains on orange alert.