Tour 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[El Pistolero]

Could include Valverde there as well.

But Forget the tag ons

Let the worlds 2 best gt descenders go for it on their own.

I include the letters gt so that you know who doesnt bring in his unwelcome "Gilbert is twice the descender of Nibali" comments.

Too bad we never see any of that great Samu descending anymore

Contador doing a better descend at stage 17 of the Tour this year doesn't really help his case as well. Or Cadel Evans gapping him in the descend on stage 16.

But why use facts if you can use arguments that date back 4 years ago. I guess Boonen is still a top sprinter then.

 

[luckyboy]

lol, lots of Froome hype in this thread.

 

[The Hitch]

Too bad we never see any of that great Samu descending anymore

Contador doing a better descend at stage 17 of the Tour this year doesn't really help his case as well. Or Cadel Evans gapping him in the descend on stage 16.

But why use facts if you can use arguments that date back 4 years ago. I guess Boonen is still a top sprinter then.

Stage 17 when him and Contador put a good 10-15 seconds in 3km on Cadel, Schlecks, Basso, Cunego, Uran was 4 years ago?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

lol, lots of Froome hype in this thread.

Not really.

I've been the main person talking about him and have been careful to point out that his Vuelta form could well be a complete one off that he never comes close to again. The top two steps of the Vuelta made me deeply unhappy for reasons you can probably work out for yourself. I love to see young riders mix it with the big boys, but I get twitchy when such a performance comes completely out of nowhere from a rider who has been around for a while.

Nevertheless, his performance at the Vuelta was very impressive and impressive in exactly the sort of ways that fit this stupid parcours.

 

[AussieGoddess]

I do think that this course could do with one more really tough mountain stage (or make one of the current hilly/mountain stages harder) ...

but overall, I think its ok. Not great, but ok. Certainly better than 2011 which I thought was pretty poor ... and that turned out to be an ok race.

Yes - it favours those who can TT much more than last year .... but really, the TdF shouldn't be for a climbing speciallist every year. You should have to be able to do everything ..... flats, hills, long stages, short stages, time trials of various lengths and mountains.

Andy Schleck being able to win makes a mockery of things ... just the same as Tony Martin being able to win does.

Wiggins - must think all his christmas's have come at once

Menchov - must be regretting his decision to stay with Geox. How p!ssed will he be if once again Geox isnt at this Tour

Contador - will be pretty happy that Schleck is out of it

Schleck's - I wouldnt like to be in either of those households today ..... or that of Johan Brunyeel

 

[cineteq]

Andy Schleck being able to win makes a mockery of things ... just the same as Tony Martin being able to win does.

You got that right, either way it'll be terrible for the Tour.

 

[hughmoore]

With the Olympics next year, maybe a less Mountainous course would keep things together.

Obviously Wiggins is going to want to keep full team in support if he is in contention.




Hugh

 

[gregrowlerson]

I do think that this course could do with one more really tough mountain stage (or make one of the current hilly/mountain stages harder) ...

but overall, I think its ok. Not great, but ok. Certainly better than 2011 which I thought was pretty poor ... and that turned out to be an ok race.

Yes - it favours those who can TT much more than last year .... but really, the TdF shouldn't be for a climbing speciallist every year. You should have to be able to do everything ..... flats, hills, long stages, short stages, time trials of various lengths and mountains.

Andy Schleck being able to win makes a mockery of things ... just the same as Tony Martin being able to win does.

Wiggins - must think all his christmas's have come at once

Menchov - must be regretting his decision to stay with Geox. How p!ssed will he be if once again Geox isnt at this Tour

Contador - will be pretty happy that Schleck is out of it

Schleck's - I wouldnt like to be in either of those households today ..... or that of Johan Brunyeel

These are good calls.

Why shouldn't a time trialler who can climb have a chance to win sometimes? Cancerella is not a chance on this course, nor Martin (on his current climbing form).

Would be kind of funny if the imfamous wheelsucker Levi won though

 

[The Hitch]

These are good calls.

Why shouldn't a time trialler who can climb have a chance to win sometimes? Cancerella is not a chance on this course, nor Martin (on his current climbing form).

Would be kind of funny if the imfamous wheelsucker Levi won though

Levi would have won this in 2007 or 2008.

But hes going to be 38 come July so 2012 is too late for him unfortunately.

 

[Swede1]

Menchov 10 came 3rd in the Tour.

Evans 10 showed probably as little in gts as Menchov in 11 and look what happened the year after.

As others have said Dennis was probably the strongest rider in the Vuelta. He came 5th overall despite not going for it as his teammate was the overall leader.

Its not like Menchov is suddenly passed it.

Finally someone with some sense. Menchov was very strong in the Vuelta. He was also very strong in the Tour in 10. If that Tour had the TT's 2012 has he would have won. He can definitely win.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Lol yes, whoever mentioned the 2004 Giro. A queen stage of 130km, nine stages won by Petacchi, and Honchar 2nd overall. Bradley McGee in the top 10 overall.

That is what I'm thinking of here.

If Tony Martin doesn't make the top 10, he must have crashed out.

That was my call

Uuuuuuuuum......perhaps Klodi can take 2-3 minutes out of the Schlecks on stage 10 and be promoted to team leadership

Very surprising though to see only 4 days in the high mountains when the standard is 6...

 

[gregrowlerson]

You guys act like there are 100km of TT and not even one HC climb close to the finsih

Oh wait a second

Post Of The Day!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Worst.Route.Ever

4 mountain stage, and no time bonuses for possible short uphill finishers. A Time Trialist's wet dream this route is. BLECH!!!

Cracked me up also

 

[Race Radio]

Surprise stage of 2012 Tour could be stage 7. Final climb has a false flat run a steep finale that gains about 1800 feet

 

[42x16ss]

Good route for Cadel's bid for back to back! ACF likes! It will force the climbers to attack at every oportunity now. More mTF"s doesn't necessarily balance racing.

What opportunities? I don't see any.

The climbers have a few chances to take seconds. The TT'ers have chances to take minutes. The first mountain stage is at least 40km too short and there needs to be a true queen stage.

Wiggins to win with Gilbert, Cancellara and LL Sanchez to comfortably make top 10. Pathetic parcours.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Wiggins to win with Gilbert, Cancellara and LL Sanchez to comfortably make top 10. Pathetic parcours.

I know you arent being that serious ... but others mentioned Cancellara too, and maybe he might have been an outside chance if he decided now to go for it and started some serious mountain training .... BUT - he is in the same team as the Schlecks, Fuglsang and Kloden. He is seriously not going to get even close to a chance.

Same as Gilbert. TdF for BMC will be all out for Cadel, with maybe Gilbert and Thor allowed the occasional break

 

[Ragerod]

I'm going to wait until I see the profiles before making my final verdict but I would like to see a few more mountain stages and for them to be on the weekend, not mid-week.

 

[42x16ss]

I know you arent being that serious ... but others mentioned Cancellara too, and maybe he might have been an outside chance if he decided now to go for it and started some serious mountain training .... BUT - he is in the same team as the Schlecks, Fuglsang and Kloden. He is seriously not going to get even close to a chance.

Same as Gilbert. TdF for BMC will be all out for Cadel, with maybe Gilbert and Thor allowed the occasional break

I am actually serious.

Andy can't TT well enough, Kloden won't want to lead, Fuglsang will choke and Levi can't pull his stunts off in France. The Hog will give Cance some of Horner's "beetroot juice" and either Gilbert, Pinotti or TJVG will be Evan's right hand man and end up challenging too.

Book Millar and Martin in for a sneaky top 20-25 as well.

 

[just some guy]

nibali, scarponi and anton not under performing would be enough imo

also a samu/nibali/contador/evans alliance on the descents would be a nightmare for wiggins, froome and menchov

And if Gilbert is sent up the road or climbs with the leaders. Gilbert and Sammy leading the descent aka this years tour.

 

[auscyclefan94]

What opportunities? I don't see any.

The climbers have a few chances to take seconds. The TT'ers have chances to take minutes. The first mountain stage is at least 40km too short and there needs to be a true queen stage.

Wiggins to win with Gilbert, Cancellara and LL Sanchez to comfortably make top 10. Pathetic parcours.

You are blind. The riders make the race. The climbers will have to go a lot harder further out. Take more risks and possibly do something similar to Andy Schleck did this year on the Izoard.

nibali, scarponi and anton not under performing would be enough imo

also a samu/nibali/contador/evans alliance on the descents would be a nightmare for wiggins, froome and menchov

tbh, even though Evans dropped two of those guys on a descent this year, I don't think he is as good of a descender as Samu or Nibbles. Not sure how good AC is at descending tbh.

One brit ? How about two ?
1. Wiggins
2. Froome
3. Evans

Froome is not a brit

This. After the ITT there should be something like a HC climb MTF and multiple mountain stage with a descent finish before the procession into Paris.

Remember Mont Ventoux 2009? Sestriere 2010 Giro? Boring stages?Having an ITT where the climbers have to hold on to their lead at the finish and for the tt guys to try and regain the time is a lot more exciting imo.

What climbs are the MTF's in the pyrenees?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

You guys act like there are 100km of TT and not even one HC climb close to the finsih

Oh wait a second

LOL! You Tony Martin fanboys are in for a rude awakening.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Are? There's 1. On the stage to Peyragudes.

Sorry, didn't know.
Profile anyone?

Think about it. Gaps were rather close last year between Schlecks, Evans & basso. Samu and AC were further behind. Because of the multiple MTF's, AC & Schlecks were especially content on making the time in the Alps because the final week was so hard that they didn't want to race too hard in the 2nd week because of risk of blowing up in 3rd week.

This way, the climbers will need to look to do something at every opportunity they have which means the stages into the Jura and the Alps will be aggressive as well as the final Mountain range being the Pyrenees in 2012. The climbers will also be forced to be inventive as well. The racing won't be so passive like it has been because of riders willing to take risks to win because they have to. The more mountains does not make this route necessarily better. If they had more mountains then riders could become more passive because of risk of blowing up as they know what is to come. Also, if you make it too mountainous you risk having a complete blow out with Alberto winning easily. I think this tour is quite open.

 

[42x16ss]

You are blind. The riders make the race. The climbers will have to go a lot harder further out. Take more risks and possibly do something similar to Andy Schleck did this year on the Izoard.

I wholeheartedly agree with you here, the only problem is this:

THEY ACTUALLY NEED SOME MOUNTAINS TO ATTACK ON!

 

[auscyclefan94]

I wholeheartedly agree with you here, the only problem is this:

THEY ACTUALLY NEED SOME MOUNTAINS TO ATTACK ON!

Don't be ridiculous. The stages in Jura are continually up and down. The Alpine stages have climbs in them. The Pyrenees are still have Col's in them as well. Some posters on here are totally over reacting.

 

[rghysens]

I wholeheartedly agree with you here, the only problem is this:

THEY ACTUALLY NEED SOME MOUNTAINS TO ATTACK ON!

On a positive side: with a parcours like this, the race can't disappoint. Is it so difficult to put one 200+ km mountain stage with 4+ decent climbs (with the last 2 close enough to the finish) in the parcours
I hope the climbers will finally take advantage of the opportunities in the medium mountains. Anyone still remembers the stage to Gap this year? It only had a cat2 climb near the finish, but it caused some fireworks.

Let's hope ASO put in some hilltop finishes in the first week (Seraing, probably Boulogne, hopefully Rouen)

edit: lots of "hopes" in this post