Tour 2014 Route Rumours

[Netserk]

You mean the 1st descend?

Yes. The second was non-technical and shallow, and due to the bike changes it's hard to compare the times.

 

[EnacheV]

Funny thing is that on the descent part of the second ITT in the Tour (the one Froome won) he was slower than all the other riders who ended up in the top-10 on GC except one (Talansky who ended 10th in GC).

He lost 30 seconds to Kreuziger in a 7 minutes descent.

didn't remembered that

well, the chances that they will make 20km long stages starting at 2500m altitude going down, so Nibali can win, its very small.

however they should put the flat ITT in the penultimate stage

 

[Netserk]

didn't remembered that

well, the chances that they will make 20km long stages starting at 2500m altitude going down, so Nibali can win, its very small.

however they should put the flat ITT in the penultimate stage

They could make several stages ending with a (technical) descent.

Cyclotouristes from the north with a stage finish at Albertville.
Azet from the west with a stage finish at Loudenvielle.
Madeleine from the south with a stage finish at Moûtiers.

Or some of the stages they have had in the past that ended with a descent.

 

[OlavEH]

With Hautacam and Adet? Two multi mountains stages that finish on Hautacam and Adet? LS, get your feet on the ground and understand that those goat roads in Basque Country will never be in the Tour. And I see you know the french Pyrenees. Come with alternative routes and connect the valleys with the cities WHO WANT AND CAN PAY ASO without Aubisque, Marie Blanque, Tourmalet, Horquette/Aspin, Peyresourde, Portillon, Mente etc. In the Pyrenees the finishes will be different. Roads to the finish, not so much. After Tourmalet or Aubisque, par example, you can finish on Hautacam, Luz Ardiden or Cauterets.
But it's always after Tourmalet or Aubisque.
Regarding the route, nice one with PdBF, Geradmer (short but violent) Chamorousse, Risoul, Hautacam and Adet. If this is true.

The problem with Hautacam and Pla d'Adet aren't the stage finish, but the rest of the stage before the last climb. Between Tourmalet and Hautacam, you have almost 20 km of flat terrain. And Aspin from east is fairly easy with additional 10 km of flat before the finish climb to Adet.

To Adet they should do about the same stage is in 2005 with Porte d'Aspet, Mente, Portillon, Peyresourde and Azet. A much better alternative. The last 4 climbs then would come almost back to back with very few flat sections between. A perfect stage for agressive riders and long range attacks.

And a stage finish at Hautacam should include Aubisque and perhaps Spandelles if it's doable. Much better than using the much overused Tourmalet yet again.

 

[guncha]

The problem with Hautacam and Pla d'Adet aren't the stage finish, but the rest of the stage before the last climb. Between Tourmalet and Hautacam, you have almost 20 km of flat terrain. And Aspin from east is fairly easy with additional 10 km of flat before the finish climb to Adet.

With this logic TDF should do Pailhères and Ax 3 Domaines combo as well as Bales, Peyresourde, Azet and Adet every year. There no flat sections between these climbs...

 

[OlavEH]

With this logic TDF should do Pailhères and Ax 3 Domaines combo as well as Bales, Peyresourde, Azet and Adet every year. There no flat sections between these climbs...

That would be better than using Tourmalet every freakin year.

 

[McLovin]

I don't get the general problem here with Tourmalet. It's a beautiful climb, hard over medium from both sides, can be connected very nice in both ways, and 99% of times it's not the final climb like Alpe d'Huez. What's not to like? How cand anybody not like it? It has a beautiful history, it has some nice customs, lile the Montee du Geant, I think it's just cool to say you hate Tourmalet, like hating Iphone.

 

[OlavEH]

I don't get the general problem here with Tourmalet. It's a beautiful climb, hard over medium from both sides, can be connected very nice in both ways, and 99% of times it's not the final climb like Alpe d'Huez. What's not to like? How cand anybody not like it? It has a beautiful history, it has some nice customs, lile the Montee du Geant, I think it's just cool to say you hate Tourmalet, like hating Iphone.

Even though it's a great climb, it isn't nescessary to use the climb every year. The stages I commented on would probably be harder and more interesting, espcially the stage to Adet, if you used another approach to the last climb instead of the much overused Tourmalet. And using it twice in one year would be a terrible lack of imagination and fear of trying anything other than the usual route.

 

[McLovin]

Yeah, but you see, they use it because they have to. When a stage start from the omnipresent Pau (and you know a stage will start from there every 2-3 years) and go to the East, would you be more happy if they go via Lourdes and Bagneres de Bigorre and then Aspin?

 

[Ferminal]

I don't have a problem with it being used so often, but it could be used a bit better. It's terrible from the West when linked with Aspin/Ancizan -> Adet/Azet/Peyresourde (unless it's the first climb of the day and you're going on further to link with Bales/Superbagneres). Coming from the East it works very well if you're using it after those aforementioned climbs. Furthermore you can go on to Luz like 2011 or Hautacam 2008 not to mention Soulour/Spandelles/Aubisque (provided you're not finishing in Pau). From the West it should only really be used as a finishing climb, descend to La Mongie (or Bigorre if you've gone for the epic chain).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah, but you see, they use it because they have to. When a stage start from the omnipresent Pau (and you know a stage will start from there every 2-3 years) and go to the East, would you be more happy if they go via Lourdes and Bagneres de Bigorre and then Aspin?

Why always East from Pau? There are some lovely climbs directly south and even to the west that are usable, and we know that the ski station at Arette-Pierre-Saint-Martin has been angling for a stage. The Tourmalet has become totemic of everything that is wrong with Tour stage design - that is, being safe, obvious and all too often misused. The 2009 and 2010 Tourmalet stages (all three of them) are perfect encapsulations of what is wrong with route design in the Tour. There are lots of really great climbs in France. Is the Tourmalet a great climb? Sure. But it's a great climb that is used practically every year, and usually badly. Seeing it once is too often, seeing it twice in one race twice in five years is inexcusable when you look at how many mountains there are in France. If they used it every 2-3 years as you mention, it wouldn't be a problem (unless they decided it had to be an MTF every time, when it has its reputation as an iconic PASS for a reason). Sure, I know they have to follow the money, and most of the money is in the Midi-Pyrenées. But they don't even get there by the less well-used areas, and tend to link them in lazy fashion.

Pau-Hautacam, for me a nice mix of underused and classic climbs.

Col de Labays (12km @ 8,0%, cat.1? Stop off on the way to Soudet, which is HC - for Labays, last 8km at 9,4%!), Col de Marie-Blanque (9,5km @ 7,5%, cat.1?), Col d'Aubisque (16,6km @ 7,2%, HC), Col de Spandelles (10,2km @ 8,4%, cat.1), Station de Ski Hautacam (15,8km @ 6,8%, HC).

Here's Toulouse - Pla d'Adet:

That actually starts a bit outside Toulouse as the stage would need to be over 200km but of course it's the final 85km where all the important stuff happens. This gives us Port de Balès (18,9km @ 6,3%, HC), Peyragudes-Haut Balestas (12,9km @ 6,3%, cat.1), Col d'Azet (7,5km @ 8,2%, cat.1), Pla d'Adet (10,7km @ 8,0%, cat.1). Obviously they can cut Haut Balestas short and just do the standard Peyresourde climb if they don't want to do that 1,6km extra above the Peyragudes station - the Route du Sud was able to do this and therefore go through Peyragudes without having to do the double-climb type thing from the Tour and Vuelta, but maybe with the bigger logistics of the Tour it would be difficult.

This then gives us a whole bonus stage to play with, which bearing in mind Luchon has paid suggests ought to be a Luchon-Luchon stage, or my personal favourite, an MTT (since this has not been done in Le Tour for many years) from Luchon to Superbagnères - although they could also climb from Luchon to Les Agudes as it's not been done before. This would then give us an MTT of 17,4km @ 6,7% (Superbagnères) or 14,8km @ 6,1% (Les Agudes).

There's three difficult TDF mountain stages in the same region, using a less obvious or generic format, sticking to the same or common hosts willing to pay at present, and with no Tourmalet or Aspin.

 

[McLovin]

Regarding first profile, Col de Marie Blanque it's used often I'll say, Aubisque not to mention, Spandelles may be to narrow for Tour....and...take Hataucam out. Let's say Lourdes or Argeles are not willing to pay...what do we have then? An outstanding stage Pau - Pau. It's ASO Libertine, ASO. Some climbs are used only in small regional races. You know why.

 

[roundabout]

I don't have a problem with it being used so often, but it could be used a bit better. It's terrible from the West when linked with Aspin/Ancizan -> Adet/Azet/Peyresourde (unless it's the first climb of the day and you're going on further to link with Bales/Superbagneres). Coming from the East it works very well if you're using it after those aforementioned climbs. Furthermore you can go on to Luz like 2011 or Hautacam 2008 not to mention Soulour/Spandelles/Aubisque (provided you're not finishing in Pau). From the West it should only really be used as a finishing climb, descend to La Mongie (or Bigorre if you've gone for the epic chain).

This was an ok stage

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=stages/tour0611

Just add this little hill after Portillon to cut a bit of the valley out

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Regarding first profile, Col de Marie Blanque it's used often I'll say, Aubisque not to mention, Spandelles may be to narrow for Tour....and...take Hataucam out. Let's say Lourdes or Argeles are not willing to pay...what do we have then? An outstanding stage Pau - Pau. It's ASO Libertine, ASO. Some climbs are used only in small regional races. You know why.

Hence why I said "a mix of classic and underused climbs". Marie Blanque and Aubisque are classic climbs, Hautacam is coming up for its 5th use, so you could argue its reputation has only really recently been established, and Spandelles and Labays are underused.

I used Hautacam simply because I wanted to use the rumoured stage towns. We have rumoured:
Toulouse (or nearby) - Luchon
Luchon - Hautacam (Peyresourde, Aspin, Tourmalet)
Pau - Pla d'Adet (Marie Blanque, Aubisque, Tourmalet, Ancizan)

Therefore to keep with the same locations but changing the order, I proposed:
Toulouse (or nearby) - Pla d'Adet
Luchon - Luchon, or Luchon - Superbagnères/Les Agudes (MTT)
Pau - Hautacam

Spandelles shouldn't be a problem. The problem will be more for the race caravan than for the riders, since it's not going to be any worse than myriad descents we see in the Giro and Vuelta, which are hardly on the level of the Route du Sud. And so the problem is in fact nothing to do with the sport but to do with merchandising. There is no sporting reason why the Tour could not climb Spandelles. It is not Errozate or Parpaillon. Yes, it might be problematic to send the whole péloton down it, but you know, that's why you have a multiple-mountain stage that splits the field up, so you don't have to have the whole péloton going down there together.

 

[Ferminal]

This was an ok stage

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=stages/tour0611

Just add this little hill after Portillon to cut a bit of the valley out

Eh, now I know why Beret that day had more gaps than there should have been.

 

[Poursuivant]

Just one TT this year? Or is there a TTT?

 

[Netserk]

Just one TT this year? Or is there a TTT?

TTT or ITT in the first week (most likely TTT) and then a long ITT on stage 20.

 

[Poursuivant]

TTT or ITT in the first week (most likely TTT) and then a long ITT on stage 20.

Thank you.

 

[Poursuivant]

Not too long until the big unveiling

 

[Bexon30]

Not too long until the big unveiling

Excuse my ignorance I know it's October but when?, thank you.

 

[McLovin]

23'rd this month

 

[Bexon30]

23'rd this month

Many thanks... I just hope for for killer mountains to be included. And used correctly without the descent or flat after. I don't hold too much hope for this. Some new climbs or underused passes would be nice. I look forward to the 23rd.

 

[Linkinito]

Many thanks... I just hope for for killer mountains to be included. And used correctly without the descent or flat after. I don't hold too much hope for this. Some new climbs or underused passes would be nice. I look forward to the 23rd.

Really, don't expect them. It's going to be a classic borefest.

 

[McLovin]

Pau - Hautacam looks pretty sure for 24'th of July. This would be the last mountain stage.

 

[EnacheV]

Really, don't expect them. It's going to be a classic borefest.

A classic borefest and getting 70-80% of all year cycling audiences. Some people don't want to watch MTF's all month long.

And there should be a GT when the best allrounder wins, there are enough GT's for climbers.