Tour de France 2015 Stage 15: Mende-Valence 183km

Page 12 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Place your bets!

  • Cavendish

    Votes: 22 23.2%
  • Greipel

    Votes: 11 11.6%
  • Degenkolb

    Votes: 6 6.3%
  • Sagan

    Votes: 26 27.4%
  • Démare

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Coquard

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kristoff

    Votes: 7 7.4%
  • Another sprinter

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • I still believe in the breakaway

    Votes: 11 11.6%
  • Vino

    Votes: 10 10.5%

  • Total voters
    95
  • Poll closed .
Re:

Stelvio said:
The commisaires really didn't like the bottle toss. Sean Yates will not be in the car tomorrow: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tinkoff-saxo-director-yates-ejected-from-tour-de-france-for-bottle-toss

The correct way to deal with misbehaving motorbikes is not to physically assault those on it...
I do wonder, why is Yates banned, while the mechanic threw the bottle? I guess he's responsible for his personnel, but shouldn't the mechanic be the one who gets punished? It's not like Yates could have done anything to prevent it.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
jaylew said:
ILovecycling said:
Gratz to Gorila, poor sprint by Degenkolb, I dont have any idea why is he always going so early :confused:
How do you figure Deg went too early :confused:
Greipel went first and there was never a time when Degenkolb passed his wheel - the Gorilla was just too strong.
I think he should wait more time in his slipstream, but its just an amateur opinion ;)
 
ILovecycling said:
jaylew said:
ILovecycling said:
Gratz to Gorila, poor sprint by Degenkolb, I dont have any idea why is he always going so early :confused:
How do you figure Deg went too early :confused:
Greipel went first and there was never a time when Degenkolb passed his wheel - the Gorilla was just too strong.
I think he should wait more time in his slipstream, but its just an amateur opinion ;)
Yeah, when I saw Degenkolb launching from quite far, I thought for a brief moment he was going to give Greipel a hard time because you normally do that only when you're very strong.
 
May 9, 2011
189
0
0
Re: Re:

Vasilis said:
Stelvio said:
The commisaires really didn't like the bottle toss. Sean Yates will not be in the car tomorrow: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tinkoff-saxo-director-yates-ejected-from-tour-de-france-for-bottle-toss

The correct way to deal with misbehaving motorbikes is not to physically assault those on it...
I do wonder, why is Yates banned, while the mechanic threw the bottle? I guess he's responsible for his personnel, but shouldn't the mechanic be the one who gets punished? It's not like Yates could have done anything to prevent it.
Why did the mechanic throw the bottle at the cameraman, when it was the moto rider's fault? Some things just remain mysteries.
 
Great ride by Greipel! He could get a 4th stage win at the Champs Elysses, making it his best TDF.
Also Matthews lost all his good positioning once Laporte head-butted him and then got boxed in, which was annoying because we couldn't see whether he'd recovered enough to do a full and good sprint- not saying he would've beat Greipel though.
 
Re: Re:

Ryongsyong said:
Vasilis said:
Stelvio said:
The commisaires really didn't like the bottle toss. Sean Yates will not be in the car tomorrow: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tinkoff-saxo-director-yates-ejected-from-tour-de-france-for-bottle-toss

The correct way to deal with misbehaving motorbikes is not to physically assault those on it...
I do wonder, why is Yates banned, while the mechanic threw the bottle? I guess he's responsible for his personnel, but shouldn't the mechanic be the one who gets punished? It's not like Yates could have done anything to prevent it.
Why did the mechanic throw the bottle at the cameraman, when it was the moto rider's fault? Some things just remain mysteries.
The motor bike riders are sometimes a law unto themselves - I've seen instances where they have put riders in danger with seemingly reckless riding. The same goes sometimes with the numerous cars that are part of the race. I thought the welfare of the riders would be paramount, but this doesn't always seem to be the case. :confused:
 
Re: Re:

Vasilis said:
I do wonder, why is Yates banned, while the mechanic threw the bottle? I guess he's responsible for his personnel, but shouldn't the mechanic be the one who gets punished? It's not like Yates could have done anything to prevent it.
According to Swedish Eurosport Tinkoff-Saxo will only have one car today, so the mechanic is out too.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
gregrowlerson said:
If people want high mountains on the penultimate weekend, then we need to go back to - the Armstrong days - not back ending the grand tours so much. The Giro seems to have started - that's a good way to get people offside, blame the Giro :p - this, and the Tour has followed suit. Stages 14 and 15 were often the second chain of high mountains, with lumpy stages and a long ITT (not sure if anyone remembers those?) coming thereafter. If you 'have' to have sprint stages then I've always thought that it's better to put some of them late in the race, after all of the high mountains. Sprinters are then rewarded for getting over the climbs, although they could make the time limits harsher to make this reward more deserved. At least the Pettachi's are generally removed from the equation by that stage of the race.
You're thinking of Cipo. Ale-Jet could get over quite a few climbs. There's even a Giro stage in 2004 where he went over Tonale with the breakaway and got dropped on the Gavia.

The Giro still tends to put more GC-relevant stages on the penultimate weekend than the Tour.

The last few years, the penultimate weekends of GTs:

GIRO
2006: La Thuile (mountain stage with San Carlo) & Domodossola (mountain stage with GSB & Simplonpass)
2007: Bergamo (intermediate stage, last climb 35k out) & Tre Cime di Lavaredo (queen stage & MTF)
2008: Alpe di Pampeago (MTF after Manghen) & Passo di Fedaia (queen stage & MTF)
2009: Bologna San Luca (intermediate stage, HTF) & Faenza (intermediate stage)
2010: Asolo (mountain stage with Monte Grappa) & Monte Zoncolan (MTF)
2011: Monte Zoncolan (MTF) & Rifugio Gardeccia (queen stage & MTF)
2012: Cervinia (MTF) & Piani dei Resinelli (MTF)
2013: Jafferau (MTF - weather-ruined) & Galibier (MTF)
2014: Santuario di Oropa (MTF) & Pian del Montecampione (MTF)
2015: Valdobbiadene (ITT) & Madonna di Campiglio (MTF)

The Giro tends to use the penultimate weekend for mountain stages as they head into the final week in the north of the country; the only exception was 2009 with the route finishing to the south. Alarmingly there are rather too many MTFs for my liking in recent times, although when you put the queen stage directly after the hardest MTF of the race you do guarantee two days of action, like in 2011. The ITT was an interesting experiment in 2015, but was still an important GC stage.

VUELTA
2006: Cuenca (ITT) & Factoría Ford (flat stage)
2007: Villacarillo (intermediate stage, last climb 15km out) & Granada (mountain stage with El Purche)
2008: Alto del Angliru (MTF) & Fuentes de Invierno (MTF)
2009: Sierra Nevada (queen stage & MTF) & Sierra de la Pandera (MTF)
2010: Peña Cabarga (MTF) & Lagos de Covadonga (MTF)
2011: La Farrapona (queen stage & MTF) & Alto del Angliru (MTF)
2012: Ancares/Cruz de Cespedosa (MTF) & Lagos de Covadonga (MTF)
2013: Andorra-Coll de la Gallina (MTF) & Peyragudes (queen stage & MTF)
2014: La Camperona (MTF) & Lagos de Covadonga (MTF)
2015: Fuente del Chivo (MTF) & Jitu d'Escarandí (MTF)

Obviously the Vuelta has gone MTF crazy in the last few years, but there's still been a tendency to ensure mountain stages on the penultimate weekend. Many of these are Javier Guillén's patented Unipuerto stages (most to Lagos de Covadonga end up being that way no matter what the route planners attempt). The 2006 route was one of the best Vuelta routes in recent memory but the pacing was very poor, looking at that weekend. Either way, both the Giro and the Tour are in the midst of a run of ensuring they maximise their audience with GC-relevant stages on the weekend (remember Zomegnan's nuts 2011 route was mainly about the chronic audience figures flat stages were getting in Italy at the time compared to the mountains).

TOUR:
2006: Montélimar (flat stage) & Gap (intermediate stage, Col du Manse)
2007: Plateau de Beille (MTF) & Loudenvielle (mountain stage with Balès & Peyresourde)
2008: Digne-les-Bains (flat stage) & Prato Nevoso (MTF)
2009: Besançon (flat stage) & Verbier (MTF)
2010: Ax-3-Domaines (MTF) & Luchon (mountain stage with Balès)
2011: Plateau de Beille (MTF) & Montpelier (flat stage)
2012: Cap d'Agde (flat stage) & Foix (intermediate stage with Mur de Peguère)
2013: Lyon (hilly stage) & Mont Ventoux (MTF)
2014: Risoul 1850 (MTF) & Nîmes (flat stage)
2015: Montée Laurent Jalabert (intermediate stage, HTF) & Valence (flat stage)

As you can see, the Tour is FAR more likely to stick a sprinter's stage on the penultimate weekend, with several more non-GC-relevant stages than the Giro and Vuelta put together. The best years for the GC-relevance of the penultimate weekend are 2007 (when there were a few relatively tame days in the final week between the Aubisque stage and the final TT) and 2010. In both of these the final mountain stage was stage 17 and the ITT on stage 20 was the last moment of GC relevance. It therefore seems that the push to backload the race and make the last few stages relevant hamstrings the Tour... but only so long as they're unwilling to do proper intermediate or mountain stages in less commonly-used areas. Mont Ventoux sitting between the Alps and the Massif Central is an obvious candidate, but I'd love to see the Pyrenees at the end of week 1, the Alps at the end of week 2, and then going back toward Paris via the Jura or even the Vosges, leaving us late mountain stages in less obvious areas. Or, if they are going to backload the Alps, have some GC relevant stages in the Massif Central (doesn't need to be Col de la Lusette MTF even if that were possible, you know) or Alpes-Maritimes and the Vercors (assuming that we still need the Alpine and Pyrenean stages to be in the same areas as usual due to money)?

Yesterday's stage was an example of a good way to use the transition between the two main mountain ranges, though you don't always have to use Mende. Here are a few stages from major races that could be used as an example of the kind of stages we could use on a penultimate weekend if they still wanted to backload the Alps (for some, the categorizations would need amending!):










(would be better with Col de Chansert before Col du Béal - that would give us a legit mountain stage in the Massif)


(even better to finish at Saint-Chamond or do the Croix de Chaubouret MTF)

I would also desperately like to see the Col de l'Œillon back, and the Col de la Lusette, which is popularly linked to a Mont Aigoual MTF by traceurs.
Yeah, good points and info as always LS.

To use the Jura, Vosges or Massif Central on the penultimate weekend makes sense, if they're going to continue to backload the final 'high' mountains. Planche Fillies is becoming a favourite; perhaps that could be used on the penultimate weekend, though thus far they've preferred to use it as a prelude to the high mountains. Maybe next year Le Tour will go back to having a long ITT on the second weekend, before the alps, then we have a better chance of medium mountains on stages 14 and 15.

Or we could just get you to design it all for us and be done with it. No worthless flat stages :D
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS