Tour de France 2017 stage 6: Vesoul > Troyes - 216 km

[tobydawq]

Okay, upon closer watch of the sprint, I retract my comments a bit. Démare does make some strange moves with his head, but as I see it, he probably does not really headbutt anybody, and Boasson Hagen doesn't even seem to notice him. There isn't much space for him to go beside Haller and Hagen on the right-hand side, but it is probably not as dangerous as I initially saw it (and I didn't really complain about Sagan squeezing between the barriers and Nizzolo at the Worlds last year). And dubious movements notwithstanding, it was a good sprint from him but Kittel is on another level.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

No it doesn't. It implies that the first French sprinter to win a stage in a long time gets more leeway than his rivals, just as for instance an Italian GC contender at the Giro can expect the powers that be to smile benevolently upon him.

Rewind a little, with rollthedice stating that Demare acted like someone who knows he's protected. That's implying his participation in a conspiracy. You left that out. My point is that it's a big accusation, an unfair accusation. I don't know if he benefits from an advantage being French in France, possibly, but that's not his fault and he takes the flak following the Sagan decision. That is not fair.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

It will make a decent 2 minute movie, the lost twin of a russian boxer fighting King Kong and Captain France and winning.

I watched the last 5km on replay. That sufficed. It's a bad sign when the thing that surprised me most in the first week was that I forgot that Demare is (was) in green. Edit: still is

Very impressive sprint from Kittel, he came from quite a way back.

 

[DFA123]

Just caught up with the highlights. That was insane from Kittel. He was absolutely nowhere with 250m to go! He's got his team out of jail twice now thanks to just raw power.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Agree w/ last 2 posters (Tank Engine & DFA123). Raw power. Kittel seemed to think "not going to play with the group sprint that went to the right side barriers" in final 200m. So he goes left, gets in the clear with no obstructions and just powered in.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

No it doesn't. It implies that the first French sprinter to win a stage in a long time gets more leeway than his rivals, just as for instance an Italian GC contender at the Giro can expect the powers that be to smile benevolently upon him.

Rewind a little, with rollthedice stating that Demare acted like someone who knows he's protected. That's implying his participation in a conspiracy. You left that out. My point is that it's a big accusation, an unfair accusation. I don't know if he benefits from an advantage being French in France, possibly, but that's not his fault and he takes the flak following the Sagan decision. That is not fair.

I didn't see his post. There's no reason to think he is personally involved in some kind of conspiracy, I agree. On the other hand, he could have used a lance to knock each opponent off on the stage he won and he wouldn't have been relegated. You would have to be exceptionally naive to think that a local rider taking or likely to take a big win is treated the same as his opponents in any GT.

 

[saunaking]

Re: Re:

There is this thing in Paris.

Kittel will not score any points in the mountain stages. Démare is the big favorite for the green jersey.

There are no intermediate sprints where Kittel won't be there with Demare if he chooses to go for those intermediate sprints. All the sprints in mountain stages either come before any real climbing or after big climbs that neither can get over.

 

[Frankschleck]

was it cummings who pulled a fantastic turn in the last kilometers?

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

[quote="Zinoviev Letter I didn't see his post. There's no reason to think he is personally involved in some kind of conspiracy, I agree. On the other hand, he could have used a lance to knock each opponent off on the stage he won and he wouldn't have been relegated. You would have to be exceptionally naive to think that a local rider taking or likely to take a big win is treated the same as his opponents in any GT.[/quote]
I'm bad, but I'm not THAT bad .

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Demare is walking a tight rope. They all do. If Nono does something stupid and someone gets hurt, I'll be the last one to defend him. In the meantime that's a lot of hate that would not be taking place had Sagan not been DQed, really.

I do not agree. Not all the sprinters race the same. Some, like Greipel and Kittel rely on sheer power but don't take as many risks as do Sagan, Cavendish and Demare. If the UCI decides to be firmer, they should not wait for accidents to happen. The fact that Demare didn't cause Bouhanni to crash 2 days ago was the only thing that saved him from punishment. That is not fair or correct in my eyes.

On a side-note, I get the feeling that part of the Bouhanni-Demare feud is sparking some knee-jerk racism among (mainly French) fans. Not aimed at you or anyone here. But it makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Bouhanni vs. FDJ, the feud is alive: https://twitter.com/BouhanniNacer/status/883007486235734016

Guarnieri was already trading headbutts with the Cofidis train when he still rode for Katusha, they have a history and now he's leading out his big rival.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Okay, upon closer watch of the sprint, I retract my comments a bit. Démare does make some strange moves with his head, but as I see it, he probably does not really headbutt anybody, and Boasson Hagen doesn't even seem to notice him. There isn't much space for him to go beside Haller and Hagen on the right-hand side, but it is probably not as dangerous as I initially saw it (and I didn't really complain about Sagan squeezing between the barriers and Nizzolo at the Worlds last year). And dubious movements notwithstanding, it was a good sprint from him but Kittel is on another level.

To me it looked like he used his bodyweight and his shoulders to prevent other riders from driving him into the barrierers, that's not an unfair move. His line was a bit risky, but the Katusha rider (Haller?) was a leadout man who was moving to the other side of the road after his job was done and Demare showed him that he was there and avoided getting slammed into the barriers, maybe a bit reckless, but not unfair.

 

[Ricco']

I know people are pointing out Demare's dangerous sprint today, too, but has anyone noticed that he purposefully headbutted the Katusha rider!!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1kQ6OyXgg
Look between seconds 45 and 47, watch it a couple of times and in slow motion. Was there contact?

To me, it doesn't seem like a headbutt, I think it was a shoulder contact to impose his position. I think it was a move that happens regularly on the sprints. In this case, specifically, the two riders are in a very low position so it seems that is headbutting.

 

[Lexman]

I suppose FDJ will send some men in the break to get as many points before the bunch arrives, the Steppers trying to reel the break in till the intermediate sprint

 

[Eagle]

Re:

I suppose FDJ will send some men in the break to get as many points before the bunch arrives, the Steppers trying to reel the break in till the intermediate sprint

Kittel doesn't seem to bothered by the intermediate sprints so far, just following wheels

 

[Lexman]

Re: Re:

I suppose FDJ will send some men in the break to get as many points before the bunch arrives, the Steppers trying to reel the break in till the intermediate sprint

Kittel doesn't seem to bothered by the intermediate sprints so far, just following wheels

you said it "so far", if he wants to grab the green jersey he has to start doing the intermediate ones as well, Demare does them and will extend his lead a lot that way...

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

[quote="Jagartrott[/url On a side-note, I get the feeling that part of the Bouhanni-Demare feud is sparking some knee-jerk racism among (mainly French) fans. Not aimed at you or anyone here. But it makes me feel uncomfortable.[/quote]
Among fans of all countries. Sad but true. Even here on CN unfortunately (one post immediately comes to mind). There's no excuse for racism.

 

[RedheadDane]

How does a rivalry between to Frenchmen spark racism?
Regional "racism"?

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

How does a rivalry between to Frenchmen spark racism?
Regional "racism"?

Nacer is of Algerian descent.

 

[Tonton]

Some anti-Bouhanni "fans" are such because of Nacer's origin, no doubt. With his bad boy image, it may be tempting for bigots to present him as one of the thugs in the suburbs of Paris or Marseille.

It's not just a French thing. I would go further: if his name was Pierre Bouhant, would he be sanctioned as much as he has been? I don't think so.

 

[tobydawq]

Some anti-Bouhanni "fans" are such because of Nacer's origin, no doubt. With his bad boy image, it may be tempting for bigots to present him as one of the thugs in the suburbs of Paris or Marseille.

It's not just a French thing. I would go further: if his name was Pierre Bouhant, would he be sanctioned as much as he has been? I don't think so.

Now, there is a conspiracy! I really don't think it's his name that has made him so susceptible to punishments. But he definitely has established a reputation as an aggressive offender through lots of faults on his own. That is probably what is colouring decisions like the ludicrous one from Vattenfall last year.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

you said it "so far", if he wants to grab the green jersey he has to start doing the intermediate ones as well, Demare does them and will extend his lead a lot that way...

Stage wins are a much bigger goal for him than green. And it's not like Kittel has a tremendous amount of endurance to fall back on. I bet he keeps his powder dry until Pau, then if he's still in it he starts following wheels in the intermediates. His only two chances after that come after rest days anyway.

That is probably what is colouring decisions like the ludicrous one from Vattenfall last year.

Awkward word choice. But I agree with the sentiment. There are plenty of other non-white cyclists, and I don't remember any of them having a dirty reputation. Quintana, in a way, maybe comes the closest (really unfairly, IMHO), but mainly that's because cycling likes to devour its young. Particularly when those chicks don't chirp harmoniously.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

you said it "so far", if he wants to grab the green jersey he has to start doing the intermediate ones as well, Demare does them and will extend his lead a lot that way...

Stage wins are a much bigger goal for him than green. And it's not like Kittel has a tremendous amount of endurance to fall back on. I bet he keeps his powder dry until Pau, then if he's still in it he starts following wheels in the intermediates. His only two chances after that come after rest days anyway.

That is probably what is colouring decisions like the ludicrous one from Vattenfall last year.

Awkward word choice. But I agree with the sentiment. There are plenty of other non-white cyclists, and I don't remember any of them having a dirty reputation. Quintana, in a way, maybe comes the closest (really unfairly, IMHO), but mainly that's because cycling likes to devour its young. Particularly when those chicks don't chirp harmoniously.

Well...

 

[Tonton]

Some anti-Bouhanni "fans" are such because of Nacer's origin, no doubt. With his bad boy image, it may be tempting for bigots to present him as one of the thugs in the suburbs of Paris or Marseille.

It's not just a French thing. I would go further: if his name was Pierre Bouhant, would he be sanctioned as much as he has been? I don't think so.

Now, there is a conspiracy! I really don't think it's his name that has made him so susceptible to punishments. But he definitely has established a reputation as an aggressive offender through lots of faults on his own. That is probably what is colouring decisions like the ludicrous one from Vattenfall last year.

As much as I agree with your post, I also believe that public opinion (fans, even officials) has become increasingly negative towards muslims after all the terrorist attacks et caetera. In addition to the die hard racists, of course. Whether it swayed decisions is debatable, but one may wonder.

Nacer's actions are one thing. He's no angel. The bad boy image is hurting him. He's a whiner. Having said that, many on the forum (me included) can't help liking the character, the caricature of Nacer. Personnally, he cracks me up. If he won more, people would like him more, as well. Fans put up with Mc Enroe or Tomba because they were lunatics...who won.

 

[France_En_Marche]

Some anti-Bouhanni "fans" are such because of Nacer's origin, no doubt. With his bad boy image, it may be tempting for bigots to present him as one of the thugs in the suburbs of Paris or Marseille.

It's not just a French thing. I would go further: if his name was Pierre Bouhant, would he be sanctioned as much as he has been? I don't think so.

I actually think it's the othet way around regarding Bouhanni's antics and punishment. On account of "virtue signalling" apologists who are always looking to score points in the name of social justice, or others looking to avoid at all cost being labelled racist (could there be a worse label this day and age?)
Imo if his name was Pierre Bouhant, he would have found himself relegated more often by officials for his erratic riding. The media would be less likely to give him a pass for his disrespectful manor and team bosses would be less tolerant of his antics.

Anyway, Bouhanni and his team are doing a very good job getting him into position for the sprints so far but he seems to lack a bit inside the final 300m. He was perfectly positioned in this stage but miss-timed his jump otherwise he probably would have finished 2nd.