• We're giving away a Cyclingnews water bottle! Find out more here!

Tour de France 2019

Page 44 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

MartinGT said:
movingtarget said:
I have a feeling that Prudhomme will stick with this format pretty much. Hard to see the TT kms being increased.
Wouldn't putting more TT's in make it more attacking? It would force the likes of Bardet etc who can't TT as well as the likes of Dumo etc to attack where it suits them.
Yes but still it would decrease the chances for a french tour winner (ok, Alaphilippe would probably have actually profited this year). So i do not see an increase happening. But i agree that there should be 50-60km of ITTs to make it more balanced.
 
This year's ITT was essentially a lap of a circuit for which, if it were held as a circuit race like the ladies did, Alaphilippe would have been favourite. So in hindsight, his TT win shouldn't have been a shock.

In the 80s and 90s, a combined total (ITT, MTT and TTT) of 200+kms was not unheard of. "Why break out the pointy hats and disc wheels for less than an hour in the saddle?" would have been the refrain. Such numbers in the Ineos era would just give a 3-4 minute headstart to the likes of Froome and Thomas over almost any other recent contenders, though. Dumoulin and Roglic would have to ride the Tour if those numbers did happen.
 
Christian Prudhomme says this was he favorite tour. I really believe it was because of how much success the French riders had. Two stage wins and 14 days in yellow for Alaphilippe. Alaphilippe was also named the most aggressive rider even though he never won the award for an individual stage. Bardet won the polka jersey. Pinot stage 14 win was nice but you had 10 riders within a minute of his win.

He made a comparison to the '89 tour but the '89 tour was a true back and forth battle.(Perhaps no coincidence that was the last race a French rider had a shot) Go watch it on youtube it's a much better race than this edition. The jersey changed hands five times between LeMond and Fignon.

This tour was whether or not Alaphilippe would be able to hold on in the high mountains. I really believe if the stages hadn't been shortened JA would have barely been in the top 10. Prudhomme has neutered the race. 8 instead of 9 riders. Limited the TT KMs and no epic climbs were included in this race. The 2020 race will be very similar in make up.

They should add a jersey. Top French rider. Make it red and award it after each stage. 35 years is a long drought and I don't see it ending anytime soon.
 
Lots of good suggestions on course design but I'm afraid without getting rid of peloton etiquette and bogus rulings from the racing jury it's all for naught. Just in this year's race we had the peloton stop 3 times for Geraint Thomas and a very questionable decision to take the final times at the top of the climb in stage 19.

Granted this year it was bad roads, Alaphilippe's fade, and Pinot's injury that sucked much of the drama out of the race. Poor race design and corruption does ruin the fun sometimes but not always.
 
DanielSong39 said:
Lots of good suggestions on course design but I'm afraid without getting rid of peloton etiquette and bogus rulings from the racing jury it's all for naught. Just in this year's race we had the peloton stop 3 times for Geraint Thomas and a very questionable decision to take the final times at the top of the climb in stage 19.

Granted this year it was bad roads, Alaphilippe's fade, and Pinot's injury that sucked much of the drama out of the race. Poor race design and corruption does ruin the fun sometimes but not always.
Eh, what? You must have watched a different race than I did.
 
Jul 20, 2019
66
13
210
How much of the route is Prudhomme and how much is Goveneau? Doesn't Goveneau actually design the courses?

Prudhomme actually used to design balanced courses. See 2007 and 2008.
 
tobydawq said:
DanielSong39 said:
Lots of good suggestions on course design but I'm afraid without getting rid of peloton etiquette and bogus rulings from the racing jury it's all for naught. Just in this year's race we had the peloton stop 3 times for Geraint Thomas and a very questionable decision to take the final times at the top of the climb in stage 19.

Granted this year it was bad roads, Alaphilippe's fade, and Pinot's injury that sucked much of the drama out of the race. Poor race design and corruption does ruin the fun sometimes but not always.
Eh, what? You must have watched a different race than I did.
Well rode slowly to easily allow him to chase back on, same difference.
 
DanielSong39 said:
tobydawq said:
DanielSong39 said:
Lots of good suggestions on course design but I'm afraid without getting rid of peloton etiquette and bogus rulings from the racing jury it's all for naught. Just in this year's race we had the peloton stop 3 times for Geraint Thomas and a very questionable decision to take the final times at the top of the climb in stage 19.

Granted this year it was bad roads, Alaphilippe's fade, and Pinot's injury that sucked much of the drama out of the race. Poor race design and corruption does ruin the fun sometimes but not always.
Eh, what? You must have watched a different race than I did.
Well rode slowly to easily allow him to chase back on, same difference.

No..they never slowed they were going full gas
 
Talking about stage design, with Pinot and even Alaphilippe emerging as serious yellow jersey contenders, and Bernal announcing himself as the man to beat from now on, it could take some time, before they give us a Tour so heavy on high-altitude climbing.
 
Re:

Põhja Konn said:
Talking about stage design, with Pinot and even Alaphilippe emerging as serious yellow jersey contenders, and Bernal announcing himself as the man to beat from now on, it could take some time, before they give us a Tour so heavy on high-altitude climbing.
That would be a shame, cause I actually liked the effect it had on the racing. Like if you put the Iseran 1000m lower it's kind of an average climb.

Peguere + Prat d'Albis was great though.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Põhja Konn said:
Talking about stage design, with Pinot and even Alaphilippe emerging as serious yellow jersey contenders, and Bernal announcing himself as the man to beat from now on, it could take some time, before they give us a Tour so heavy on high-altitude climbing.
That would be a shame, cause I actually liked the effect it had on the racing. Like if you put the Iseran 1000m lower it's kind of an average climb.

Peguere + Prat d'Albis was great though.
Yes, I agree on both points.
With the Tignes MTF being canceled I'd like to know if there is a stipulation for something like that in the contract between ASO and the town.
It wouldn't surprise me if they'd get some of their money back or if they'd get the option to have the same finish next year for less money, if the stage gets canceled because of vis major.
 
Re:

houtdffan said:
How much of the route is Prudhomme and how much is Goveneau? Doesn't Goveneau actually design the courses?

Prudhomme actually used to design balanced courses. See 2007 and 2008.
Since money is always involved regarding the towns hosting finishes and/or stage starts I could imagine Prudhomme asking Gouvenou to design a stage which starts at Albertville and ends in Alpe D'Huez. The climbs in the route before the finale are then up to Gouvenou.

edit: found this which confirms some of my thoughts:

https://www.velonews.com/2018/08/news/asos-course-designer-promises-more-tour-surprises_474679
 
Jul 15, 2019
57
9
195
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
With the Tignes MTF being canceled I'd like to know if there is a stipulation for something like that in the contract between ASO and the town.
It wouldn't surprise me if they'd get some of their money back or if they'd get the option to have the same finish next year for less money, if the stage gets canceled because of vis major.
Not sure what precedent there is in the Tour, but Quintana's Giro win over Stelvio to Val Martello was after the same stage had been cancelled the year before. Approaching Tignes from the North they could put the Cormet de Roselend in the same stage as well.
 
Jul 20, 2019
66
13
210
Re: Re:

Finn84 said:
houtdffan said:
How much of the route is Prudhomme and how much is Goveneau? Doesn't Goveneau actually design the courses?

Prudhomme actually used to design balanced courses. See 2007 and 2008.
Since money is always involved regarding the towns hosting finishes and/or stage starts I could imagine Prudhomme asking Gouvenou to design a stage which starts at Albertville and ends in Alpe D'Huez. The climbs in the route before the finale are then up to Gouvenou.

edit: found this which confirms some of my thoughts:

https://www.velonews.com/2018/08/news/asos-course-designer-promises-more-tour-surprises_474679
Even Pescheux would include long ITTs though. Gouvenou is making these TTs far too short. Could have easily had a 55km TT in Pau this year and balanced it by including the Marie Blanque and Abisque in the Tourmalet stage, and then the real Madeleine in the Tignes stage.

Back when Prudhomme was actually designing the details of the stages, he'd include some truly sadistic mountain stages. Pescheux would as well (le Grand Bornand 2009 for starters) Only one in recent years was last year's ADH stage
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
The days of 100km of ITTs in a GT route being "balanced" are over, but having under 30km is just stupid. I think the ideal range is probably between 50-60km, more if much of the ITT mileage is so technical it decreases the gaps.

Also, what can be a balanced route differs a lot between the GTs. The Giro can actually put in much more and still make it work because their mountain stages are much more bonkers.
Yes but I don't see it happening with the TT's. If anything the Vuelta goes crazy with the steep stuff sometimes and ends up making it so hard that no one is confident enough to attack on the extreme stages while the Tour is minimizing the km's on stages now even on some of the sprint stages. I think the placement of the flat stages after the rest days this year was also mainly there to balance the race out. Often the mountain stage after the rest day is a killer for some of the GC riders and that worked pretty well this year. Sometimes now the most entertaining stages in the Tour are the intermediate stages. The Giro strikes a better balance between traditional and modern I think. Years ago the Vuelta had a lot of flat stages. i think Prudhomme has his mind not only on the French riders which is fair enough but also the TV audience. No wonder he was happy with this year's race.
 
So, found this rather interesting list of fines over at Cycling Weekly.
There were of course bunch of "Irregular feeding" - of various types - and "Inappropriate behaviour (urinating in public)".
Then there's a - double - case of "Assault between riders".
And then there's this:

Michael Hepburn (Mitchelton-Scott)
– Sheltering behind team director’s car
David McPartland (Mitchelton-Scott sports director)
– Allowing Michael Hepburn to shelter behind his car
I assume they mean "drafting", but it kind of makes it look like he was just hiding behind the car for some weird reason. I'm basically imagining him peeking out behind the car while suspence-ful "spy music" plays in the background.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Põhja Konn said:
Talking about stage design, with Pinot and even Alaphilippe emerging as serious yellow jersey contenders, and Bernal announcing himself as the man to beat from now on, it could take some time, before they give us a Tour so heavy on high-altitude climbing.
That would be a shame, cause I actually liked the effect it had on the racing. Like if you put the Iseran 1000m lower it's kind of an average climb.

Peguere + Prat d'Albis was great though.
Dont think Iseran is an average climb from Bonneval-sur-Arc, the average gradients are kind of deceiving. I think the relatively hard run in which was raced extremely hard was crucial, and yes, obviously altitude also played a factor. All those things along with Tignes not being a particularly hard climb, and Bernal and Ineos needing to crack Alaf, meant that it without a doubt was the best climb in the Tour.
On another note, I dont think we can blame the altitude on the cancellation at all. Shouldn't discourage Prudhomme for using a climb like this more often, especially in this setup as the penultimate climb.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Red Rick said:
Põhja Konn said:
Talking about stage design, with Pinot and even Alaphilippe emerging as serious yellow jersey contenders, and Bernal announcing himself as the man to beat from now on, it could take some time, before they give us a Tour so heavy on high-altitude climbing.
That would be a shame, cause I actually liked the effect it had on the racing. Like if you put the Iseran 1000m lower it's kind of an average climb.

Peguere + Prat d'Albis was great though.
Dont think Iseran is an average climb from Bonneval-sur-Arc, the average gradients are kind of deceiving. I think the relatively hard run in which was raced extremely hard was crucial, and yes, obviously altitude also played a factor. All those things along with Tignes not being a particularly hard climb, and Bernal and Ineos needing to crack Alaf, meant that it without a doubt was the best climb in the Tour.
On another note, I dont think we can blame the altitude on the cancellation at all. Shouldn't discourage Prudhomme for using a climb like this more often, especially in this setup as the penultimate climb.
And if they do, they should also come to the immediate conclusion that super short stages suck
 
The short mountain stages would be better if there was notable climbing directly after the start. This year there wasn't such a stage though stage 20 could have been classified as such had it taken place in its original plan. There was some 180m rise in the first 15 kilometres before real Roseland climb would have started.
 
Totally abmisal, but to be expected given the parcours.
Nothing happened in the last 10 days. The pinacle of shame being the last mountain stage obviousy when nobody even tried a little bit. But hey gaps were close so new school fans think that this is great. So I guess next year there won't be any TT at all, only 80km mountain stages and lots of muritos. After all, that's what today's folks want to see. :(
 
Re:

houtdffan said:
How much of the route is Prudhomme and how much is Goveneau? Doesn't Goveneau actually design the courses?

Prudhomme actually used to design balanced courses. See 2007 and 2008.
Prudhomme is the boss, I highly doubt Goveneau can design stages without the basic ok of Prudhomme.
 
Bavarianrider said:
Totally abmisal, but to be expected given the parcours.
Nothing happened in the last 10 days. The pinacle of shame being the last mountain stage obviousy when nobody even tried a little bit. But hey gaps were close so new school fans think that this is great. So I guess next year there won't be any TT at all, only 80km mountain stages and lots of muritos. After all, that's what today's folks want to see. :(
Sorry, but that is just a preposterous statement. If you seriously think nothing happened the last 10 days of this Tour, then I suggest that you never ever watch a Grand Tour again, because then nothing will ever happen.

I'm curious, though, as to what you think happened in the first 11 stages, when all the action on the ITT, the Prat d'Albis and the Iséran for example amounts to nothing in your estimation.
 
Re:

Finn84 said:
The short mountain stages would be better if there was notable climbing directly after the start. This year there wasn't such a stage though stage 20 could have been classified as such had it taken place in its original plan. There was some 180m rise in the first 15 kilometres before real Roseland climb would have started.
1994 they had 149km for the Val Thorens stage. But they did Glandon and Madeleine upfront. That's quite a difference. There is nothing wrong with shorter mountain stages, when they are up and down all afternoon. For me it's kind of difficult to understand why a U23 race has a harder mountain stage race design than Le Tour.

Now you have teams controlling the race with smaller gaps, formerly you had riders dominating the race with bigger gaps. I don't care if Ineos wins by 1 minute or 10 minutes between 1 and 2.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS