We all lost our Cousin todayCousin Out Of Time... I feel sorry for him.
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We all lost our Cousin todayCousin Out Of Time... I feel sorry for him.
It was really a nettle bush. I was being sarcastic a bitIt was poison ivy?? How bad can it be for a tiny man like him??
Talking about dominance.
The last 4 spots in GC are in possession by Lotto Soudal, who have only 5 riders left in the race
I agree. I like it when riders take risks. Pogacar "deserves" to win since he keeps putting himself out there.
I'm an old guy who grew up watching Lemond and Armstrong. And no matter what you think of Lance, he did not just sit second or 3rd wheel in his train and try an attack in the last 200m of a MTF!
Believe me, I was there.
De Gendt really letting them down hereA great team effort to break the 6h barrier set by Ji Cheng
I doubt they will be lapped on the Champs Elysees though lol
Bernal really is having some back and other issues. I'm wondering if he may be a DNS. (Tomorrow would seem to be a good day to begin recovery/therapy.)
Well if you are Slovakian (or Irish hopefully ) I dont think you give a s*** how tomorrow goes for this to be a great tourDear stage 17, I don't want to put any pressure on you... but tomorrow is make or break it, you will decide what future generations think about the Tour 2020.
The thing I'm now wondering, the more I think about it, is we keep talking about how super-strong Jumbo is, and how nobody can attack and how pointless trying to ride against them other than the last 700m is... but do we actually know precisely how strong they are? Nobody has tested them with attacks to find out how strong Dumoulin or Kuss really are, and so far they haven't really put down a tempo to absolutely shred everybody like Sky typically would, because we've still been riding to the last 500m with a dozen riders or more in the group, and on more than one occasion the GC battle has climbed the battlegrounds slower than the breakaway.
So the question is, why is that? After all, we've seen on stage 8 that actually Jumbo weren't all that strong, after a hard day in the saddle on stage 7 and with Kuss still recovering from a crash. Now they're apparently recovered enough to control everything, but they're still not able to go hard enough to drop a couple of helpers like Bilbao and Valverde - is that because the Jumbo helpers aren't that strong? Or is it because Roglič himself isn't as strong as he was earlier in the race, but the illusion of strength that having his men ride the tempo (especially on Grand-Colombier with Kuss not even used) produces means that everybody's just fallen into line? Is this a pure Giro 2012 situation, with an ageing Szmyd setting a false tempo for an undercooked Basso, and his reputation as an elite climbing helper causing everybody to overestimate how hard he was working? Because we can point to the elevated climbing times all we like, I don't buy that all 12 riders have the same true threshold to have all been going 100% and come in on the same time, so we can presume that at least a couple of them could have gone even faster. And if both Jumbo and Roglič truly are dominant enough that they can prevent anybody from gaining any time anywhere, then how are they only 40 seconds in front?
The good thing about tomorrow is there really isn't anywhere to hide. If Jumbo are as strong as we're told they are, there is no reason to hold back on showing it tomorrow. And if they aren't, and they bluff their way all the way to the line and take their chances in the TT, then you know what, they deserve to win because everybody else deserved to lose. The more I think about Grand-Colombier, the more I think, lord above, the very least we could have had was Bilbao or Valverde attacking. It's not like they were doing much for Landa and Mas in the last 2-3km anyway since everybody was riding in formation behind Dumoulin, and if nobody chases them then at least the team has a stage win out of the race, since they aren't going to get much else from the looks of things (except Unzué's inexplicable obsession with the Teams prize). But this race has been two and a half weeks of holding station and waiting for the race to develop. Now it's decision time for the riders: do you want this to be remembered like the 2011 Tour, or the 2012 Giro?
If Remco was here, he would be so far ahead in GC he would be half way through tomorrows stage already.
Waiting for Loze. The highs and the Loze. Normally, I'd expect Pog to attack for yellow and Mal and Landa to attack for the podium, a good stage and ppl would say a good tour, when it has been terrible.The thing I'm now wondering, the more I think about it, is we keep talking about how super-strong Jumbo is, and how nobody can attack and how pointless trying to ride against them other than the last 700m is... but do we actually know precisely how strong they are? Nobody has tested them with attacks to find out how strong Dumoulin or Kuss really are, and so far they haven't really put down a tempo to absolutely shred everybody like Sky typically would, because we've still been riding to the last 500m with a dozen riders or more in the group, and on more than one occasion the GC battle has climbed the battlegrounds slower than the breakaway.
So the question is, why is that? After all, we've seen on stage 8 that actually Jumbo weren't all that strong, after a hard day in the saddle on stage 7 and with Kuss still recovering from a crash. Now they're apparently recovered enough to control everything, but they're still not able to go hard enough to drop a couple of helpers like Bilbao and Valverde - is that because the Jumbo helpers aren't that strong? Or is it because Roglič himself isn't as strong as he was earlier in the race, but the illusion of strength that having his men ride the tempo (especially on Grand-Colombier with Kuss not even used) produces means that everybody's just fallen into line? Is this a pure Giro 2012 situation, with an ageing Szmyd setting a false tempo for an undercooked Basso, and his reputation as an elite climbing helper causing everybody to overestimate how hard he was working? Because we can point to the elevated climbing times all we like, I don't buy that all 12 riders have the same true threshold to have all been going 100% and come in on the same time, so we can presume that at least a couple of them could have gone even faster. And if both Jumbo and Roglič truly are dominant enough that they can prevent anybody from gaining any time anywhere, then how are they only 40 seconds in front?
The good thing about tomorrow is there really isn't anywhere to hide. If Jumbo are as strong as we're told they are, there is no reason to hold back on showing it tomorrow. And if they aren't, and they bluff their way all the way to the line and take their chances in the TT, then you know what, they deserve to win because everybody else deserved to lose. The more I think about Grand-Colombier, the more I think, lord above, the very least we could have had was Bilbao or Valverde attacking. It's not like they were doing much for Landa and Mas in the last 2-3km anyway since everybody was riding in formation behind Dumoulin, and if nobody chases them then at least the team has a stage win out of the race, since they aren't going to get much else from the looks of things (except Unzué's inexplicable obsession with the Teams prize). But this race has been two and a half weeks of holding station and waiting for the race to develop. Now it's decision time for the riders: do you want this to be remembered like the 2011 Tour, or the 2012 Giro?
I bust out my Saeco jersey whenever I try a new climb.I consider myself more of a Mads Pedersen type.
Jumbo have been strong enough to shut down anyone that has tried to attack. They don't need to go any quicker than that. If Landa and Lopez are saving themselves for the harder stages (stage), then it makes sense for Jumbo to do the same.The thing I'm now wondering, the more I think about it, is we keep talking about how super-strong Jumbo is, and how nobody can attack and how pointless trying to ride against them other than the last 700m is... but do we actually know precisely how strong they are? Nobody has tested them with attacks to find out how strong Dumoulin or Kuss really are, and so far they haven't really put down a tempo to absolutely shred everybody like Sky typically would, because we've still been riding to the last 500m with a dozen riders or more in the group, and on more than one occasion the GC battle has climbed the battlegrounds slower than the breakaway.
So the question is, why is that? After all, we've seen on stage 8 that actually Jumbo weren't all that strong, after a hard day in the saddle on stage 7 and with Kuss still recovering from a crash. Now they're apparently recovered enough to control everything, but they're still not able to go hard enough to drop a couple of helpers like Bilbao and Valverde - is that because the Jumbo helpers aren't that strong? Or is it because Roglič himself isn't as strong as he was earlier in the race, but the illusion of strength that having his men ride the tempo (especially on Grand-Colombier with Kuss not even used) produces means that everybody's just fallen into line? Is this a pure Giro 2012 situation, with an ageing Szmyd setting a false tempo for an undercooked Basso, and his reputation as an elite climbing helper causing everybody to overestimate how hard he was working? Because we can point to the elevated climbing times all we like, I don't buy that all 12 riders have the same true threshold to have all been going 100% and come in on the same time, so we can presume that at least a couple of them could have gone even faster. And if both Jumbo and Roglič truly are dominant enough that they can prevent anybody from gaining any time anywhere, then how are they only 40 seconds in front?
The good thing about tomorrow is there really isn't anywhere to hide. If Jumbo are as strong as we're told they are, there is no reason to hold back on showing it tomorrow. And if they aren't, and they bluff their way all the way to the line and take their chances in the TT, then you know what, they deserve to win because everybody else deserved to lose. The more I think about Grand-Colombier, the more I think, lord above, the very least we could have had was Bilbao or Valverde attacking. It's not like they were doing much for Landa and Mas in the last 2-3km anyway since everybody was riding in formation behind Dumoulin, and if nobody chases them then at least the team has a stage win out of the race, since they aren't going to get much else from the looks of things (except Unzué's inexplicable obsession with the Teams prize). But this race has been two and a half weeks of holding station and waiting for the race to develop. Now it's decision time for the riders: do you want this to be remembered like the 2011 Tour, or the 2012 Giro?
I wonder if it has to do with emphasis on big MTFs for queen stages.2012 Giro, most disappointing GT ever... ( and one of the worst GTs I've ever seen, maybe even the worst )
I mean, they had this on stage 17, this on stage 19, and this on stage 20. OK, the pacing was completely wrong, and its should have been Mortirolo-Stelvio on stage 17, Pampeago on stage 19 and Cortina as stage 20, but I don't think it would have changed much with that bunch. I mean, Hesjedal won at the end because they did not eliminate him at Lago Laceno when he was having a terrible day, that says it all about that race.
The only excuse for no action tomorrow is if Dumoulin and Kuss are actually stronger than every GC contender bar PogThe thing I'm now wondering, the more I think about it, is we keep talking about how super-strong Jumbo is, and how nobody can attack and how pointless trying to ride against them other than the last 700m is... but do we actually know precisely how strong they are? Nobody has tested them with attacks to find out how strong Dumoulin or Kuss really are, and so far they haven't really put down a tempo to absolutely shred everybody like Sky typically would, because we've still been riding to the last 500m with a dozen riders or more in the group, and on more than one occasion the GC battle has climbed the battlegrounds slower than the breakaway.
So the question is, why is that? After all, we've seen on stage 8 that actually Jumbo weren't all that strong, after a hard day in the saddle on stage 7 and with Kuss still recovering from a crash. Now they're apparently recovered enough to control everything, but they're still not able to go hard enough to drop a couple of helpers like Bilbao and Valverde - is that because the Jumbo helpers aren't that strong? Or is it because Roglič himself isn't as strong as he was earlier in the race, but the illusion of strength that having his men ride the tempo (especially on Grand-Colombier with Kuss not even used) produces means that everybody's just fallen into line? Is this a pure Giro 2012 situation, with an ageing Szmyd setting a false tempo for an undercooked Basso, and his reputation as an elite climbing helper causing everybody to overestimate how hard he was working? Because we can point to the elevated climbing times all we like, I don't buy that all 12 riders have the same true threshold to have all been going 100% and come in on the same time, so we can presume that at least a couple of them could have gone even faster. And if both Jumbo and Roglič truly are dominant enough that they can prevent anybody from gaining any time anywhere, then how are they only 40 seconds in front?
The good thing about tomorrow is there really isn't anywhere to hide. If Jumbo are as strong as we're told they are, there is no reason to hold back on showing it tomorrow. And if they aren't, and they bluff their way all the way to the line and take their chances in the TT, then you know what, they deserve to win because everybody else deserved to lose. The more I think about Grand-Colombier, the more I think, lord above, the very least we could have had was Bilbao or Valverde attacking. It's not like they were doing much for Landa and Mas in the last 2-3km anyway since everybody was riding in formation behind Dumoulin, and if nobody chases them then at least the team has a stage win out of the race, since they aren't going to get much else from the looks of things (except Unzué's inexplicable obsession with the Teams prize). But this race has been two and a half weeks of holding station and waiting for the race to develop. Now it's decision time for the riders: do you want this to be remembered like the 2011 Tour, or the 2012 Giro?
Well he chose to be visible in other stages. An okay choice of his. Other prefer to fly under the radar and aim for podium.Cousin Out Of Time... I feel sorry for him.
The only excuse for no action tomorrow is if Dumoulin and Kuss are actually stronger than every GC contender bar Pog
On the plus side, the finish is a steep climb so at least Kuss will try.The only excuse for no action tomorrow is if Dumoulin and Kuss are actually stronger than every GC contender bar Pog
Bit harsh on Froome there bar the Vuelta but yeah expecting Landa and MAL to have a go tomorrowAll indications so far are that at least one of them probably is.
I was a little encouraged to see Landa move to the front towards the end of today. If anyone has the domestiques to actually pressure JV, it's the guy who's had Wout Poels and Matej Mohoric just hiding in amongst the pack fodder for 16 stages. I mean, Poels basically did all of Froome's climbing for him to win 2 Tours, a Vuelta and a Giro. And his best stage placing so far at this race is 56th today; we saw him sandbag like that for the first week or so riding for Sky, if he has anything like that kind of legs at this Tour he should be ready to explode tomorrow. The question is if Landa does or not.