Tour de France 2020 | Stage 8 (Gazeres-sur-Geronne - Loudenvielle

[Red Rick]

The Pyrenees this year are a week earlier though

Alps are earlier too. Last year he didn't get completely owned in the prep race. I don't think 2019 Bernal would even be enough, and I don't think he's even that good this year.

 

[DNP-Old]

Have you guys read this (once again, in Dutch)? I like Dumoulin as a person and a rider, but he is absolutely pathetic. Meltdowns over nothing, and the tiniest inconvenience is apparently enough to disrupt the entire plan and potentially ruin the entire race Jumbo has had up to this point.

 

[Avoriaz]

The Pyrenees this year are a week earlier though

they are nearly two months later

 

[Gigs_98]

Alps are earlier too. Last year he didn't get completely owned in the prep race. I don't think 2019 Bernal would even be enough, and I don't think he's even that good this year.

Yeah, also not saying that he's as good as last year, but I think he'll get better.
And I actually do think his shape from last year would be enough to win. The Col de la Loze is so f*cking hard, if you are better than your rivals there, even if it's not by that much, you can gain and lose so much time there.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well it was too far away from finish to attack at Lusette (13k then, but also less downhill ofc) so who knows...

If there was a bigger climb just before Marie Blanque the peloton might be smaller, but with the profile earlier on I fear most teams will come pretty fresh into Marie Blanque and then it can be hard to create big enoug gaps to make them count.

But the fact that there is bonus seconds on top of Marie Blanque could/shoul give incentives to attack.

There were bonus seconds on top of Lusette too

 

[roundabout]

Maybe, I missed something, but I would have thought the team car would have immediately told Dumoulin to stop working . Was his radio not working, or did he just ignore the orders?

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, also not saying that he's as good as last year, but I think he'll get better.
And I actually do think his shape from last year would be enough to win. The Col de la Loze is so f*cking hard, if you are better than your rivals there, even if it's not by that much, you can gain and lose so much time there.

I don't know man. I feel these sort of climbs tend to underwhelm a little bit. Also dont'really know what to compare it to. Lago Serru? Col de Portet? Neither were super crazy. Also think 2019 3rd week Bernal is overrated. I just don't think the Tour field was that strong.


I think it's mostly about not blowing up, and we'll have decent idea of where everyone is before then.

 

[perico]

Well he joined a team which already had a world nr. 1 cyclist, winner of many races and also a GT winner. Not sure what he expected. They gave him a captain position despite being a lot worse from Roglič. That was enough.

He joined when Roglic was a podium finisher at the Giro and before the end of La Vuelta. He was the #1 rider for being a great champion of Romandie and Pais Vasco, not because he was the super favorite for the TdF.

I agree he probably should’ve signed somewhere else, but Jumbo is the only Dutch team and Tom is the most popular Dutch rider in the Peloton. Where else was he gonna go? Quick Step? They have the Wonderboy. Movistar? Doesn’t speak Spanish (that I’m aware of). EF Slipstream? Could’ve worked but Urán looks good and that team is always broke. A French team?

 

[roundabout]

Last 5k at 10% average at average altitude of over 2000 meters after 17km of climbing in week 3. The differences should be amplified there. If more than 3 people who were together at 5k to go finish within 1 minute, I'd have to rethink if it makes sense wasting my time watching.

 

[Koronin]

Maybe, I missed something, but I would have thought the team car would have immediately told Dumoulin to stop working . Was his radio not working, or did he just ignore the orders?

You would think. The question now might be is their management worse than Movistar's? At least at Movistar we already know the riders more or less run things to begin with

He joined when Roglic was a podium finisher at the Giro and before the end of La Vuelta. He was the #1 rider for being a great champion of Romandie and Pais Vasco, not because he was the super favorite for the TdF.

I agree he probably should’ve signed somewhere else, but Jumbo is the only Dutch team and Tom is the most popular Dutch rider in the Peloton. Where else was he gonna go? Quick Step? They have the Wonderboy. Movistar? Doesn’t speak Spanish (that I’m aware of). EF Slipstream? Could’ve worked but Urán looks good and that team is always broke. A French team?

Depends on if he's willing to learn Spanish. The team is willing to teach it and gives crash courses of Spanish to new riders who aren't native Spanish speakers.

 

[Tonton]

Lets stick to the racing guys.

Sagan didn't get DQed

You would think. The question now might be is their management worse than Movistar's? At least at Movistar we already know the riders more or less run things to begin with




Depends on if he's willing to learn Spanish. The team is will to teach it and gives crash courses of Spanish to new riders who aren't native Spanish speakers.

Johan Cruyff agrees .

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think Dumoulin riding was a tantrum. I think it shows a huge lack of confidence.

 

[topt]

Maybe, but it was obvious that specific group of 3 wasn't going to cooperate with each other.

true

Agree, if Dumoulin is suffering then why isn't he following hiding out wheels instead of putting in a five minute max effort that leaves him totally cooked? Roglic didn't have the legs to use it as a spring for an attack and there's a good chance the entire group stays on a steady pace or slows and maybe Dumoulin hangs on or only loses a few seconds . That was cluster from JV today.

did you read what he said.... something like, i dont care abouth being 10th in TDF so I have to do something

 

[Gigs_98]

I don't know man. I feel these sort of climbs tend to underwhelm a little bit. Also dont'really know what to compare it to. Lago Serru? Col de Portet? Neither were super crazy. Also think 2019 3rd week Bernal is overrated. I just don't think the Tour field was that strong.


I think it's mostly about not blowing up, and we'll have decent idea of where everyone is before then.

Don't know, iirc time differences on Lago Serru were pretty big. Col de Portet was that 70 km stage which I think changed the way it was raced a lot. Even then though, didn't Froome lose like almost a minute after dropping 2 km from the finish or so. Maybe it's not exactly easier to drop anyone on those sort of climbs but once you drop someone the time gaps open up much quicker.

I also think the Col de la Loze is actually even harder than the two climbs you mentioned

 

[topt]

Maybe Dumoulin doesn't feel conforable on riding next year(s) in the team with defending tdf champion which is not himself.

I think what he said and did today he is quite a team player

 

[Red Rick]

Don't know, iirc time differences on Lago Serru were pretty big. Col de Portet was that 70 km stage which I think changed the way it was raced a lot. Even then though, didn't Froome lose like almost a minute after dropping 2 km from the finish or so. Maybe it's not exactly easier to drop anyone on those sort of climbs but once you drop someone the time gaps open up much quicker.

I also think the Col de la Loze is actually even harder than the two climbs you mentioned

Col de Portet was an interesting example becasue Quintana did attack from the bottom.

Maybe Izoard is another comaprison just for the final 5km.

I'm just really not sure how much to look into the actual profile vs the altitude itself. Maybe Agnello is the closest comparison but that's never a MTF.

 

[topt]

Bernal is clearly worse than in the Pyrenees last year

or competition last year was worse, hell SK was third

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pretty sure this will be Quintana's best chance to win the Tour. This all has shaped up as a perfect race for him so far, and the last week looks perfect for an inform Quintana 2013 style

 

[Escarabajo]

Roglic should have gone for the Jugular. Yates, Bernal, Mas, Landa, Bardet were at the limit. Do it while you can. That was the good thing about Froome, always taking advantage of the first true mountain stage. He can regret it later. There is the risk that Bernal can get better later. If he couldn't then as I said before here comes flashes from the Giro last year. He will be in trouble. The big difference here is that he has a better team around him. We'll see what happens.

Quintana is limited now because he has no team. He won't try much until later in the third week. This is a handicap for him.

 

[Escarabajo]

bernal is not explosive. he always comes back at his speed. maybe he learned a bit from the froome yoyo.

not sure anyone was going to get rid of him here. they may attack away, get a gap, but he generally pulls back up.

i just hope he doesn't win like this. i already think last year was a bit of a fluke win. and there appear to be riders that are much more exciting and deserving.

Exciting yes. Deserving? give me a break. If he wins 2 Tours in a row what are we going to say. He is just lucky and undeserving?
Last year he wasn't as good in the Pyrenees. But he was patient and then he attacked hard in the alps. Yes hard and from far. I am sorry the race was cut short but it was very good to that point.

 

[hrotha]

Roglic should have gone for the Jugular. Yates, Bernal, Mas, Landa, Bardet were at the limit. Do it while you can. That was the good thing about Froome, always taking advantage of the first true mountain stage. He can regret it later. There is the risk that Bernal can get better later. If he couldn't then as I said before here comes flashes from the Giro last year. He will be in trouble. The big difference here is that he has a better team around him. We'll see what happens.

Indeed, it wouldn't be the first GT Roglič loses because he won't take any risks to capitalize on early form. Which is a risk in itself, but hey, riders and DS's seem to have a blind spot for that kind of thing.

Hell, I would argue a significant contributing factor to Kruijswijk losing the 2016 Giro was his refusal to take more time on his rivals when he was superior to all of them.

 

[gregrowlerson]

A pleasantly surprising very entertaining weekend viewing it was (Friday/Saturday nights in Australia). Set up now for a very interesting fortnight.

 

[Escarabajo]

I went to the Climbing Records (http://www.climbing-records.com/) and saw that Pogacar has the new record by 50 seconds and Roglic and Quintana has the same speed as Vino and Mayo in 2003.

That kind of changes my view of defensive climbing.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Maybe, I missed something, but I would have thought the team car would have immediately told Dumoulin to stop working . Was his radio not working, or did he just ignore the orders?

I'm getting a very strong A Few Good Men vibe about this whole thing.

Dumoulin is Dawson. Roglic is Downey.

Tony Martin is of course Colonel Jessup.

 

[gregrowlerson]

"Primoz, I've brought in a couple of old heroes to lift your spirits after todays tough stage"

In walks a depressed looking Michael Rasmussen and Laurens Ten Dam still covered in blood.

They should've just scrapped the whole team and started from scratch, it's got a Mr Burns' Baseball Team air about it.

And there's your code red.