Tour de France 2021 route rumors

[Valv.Piti]

I just miss the 00s Pyreneen mountain stages: Pailheres-Ax 3, Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden, Azet-Saint Lary..

 

[Fyr3]

I will keep dreaming about this Tour but I feel like it is just gonna be a let down...

I based the depart on if the stage including "spandelles" came before and we can assume the finish wouldn't be too far from Argeles

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I just miss the 00s Pyreneen mountain stages: Pailheres-Ax 3, Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden, Azet-Saint Lary..

...and all the Pescheux specials to Pau, Bayonne, Tarbes...

 

[staubsauger]

According to Karsten Migels from Eurosport there are rumors about Grand Ballon via Col du Haag! Apparently Prudhomme was the for a visit.

The farmers track from Geishouse up to the Ferme Auberge du Haag, which actually leads into the Routes de Cretes about 2 kilometers from the mountain peak used to be in catastrophic condition. So it certainly needs new pavement to host a Tour de France peloton. Honestly, I don't know whether that has already happened? Maybe a local or someone from the Netherlands who has been on cycling holidays in the Vosges knows this.

Grand Ballon via Col du Haag actually is the hardest climb of the Vosges together with the Petit Ballon. So that would be a proper little mountain stage. Only problem is that it actually takes quite a big loop from Petit Ballon & Platzerwasel to the Geishouse ascend towards Grand Ballon!

https://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/grand-ballon/
Profiles & Pictures from the Col du Haag ascend.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I just miss the 00s Pyreneen mountain stages: Pailheres-Ax 3, Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden, Azet-Saint Lary..

This, we haven't seen Luz Ardiden in many years, it's a great climb and unlike Hautacam you dont have a long section of false flat after the Tourmalet descent.
It's not just the reduction in km of ITT, back then the mountain stages were real mountain stages, long and hard with tons of altitude gain.
Nowadays it's quantity over quality when it comes to mountain stages in the Tour.

 

[pink_jersey]

Still think that Hourquette d'Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden is an incredible design and needs another shot in TdF. The stage in 2011 was doomed to the fact that it was the first real mountain stage and no one want to risk anything besides Samu Sanchez who was already minutes back in the GC.

 

[Brumdog66]

Still think that Hourquette d'Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden is an incredible design and needs another shot in TdF. The stage in 2011 was doomed to the fact that it was the first real mountain stage and no one want to risk anything besides Samu Sanchez who was already minutes back in the GC.

I thought that was a good stage actually

 

[Red Rick]

This, we haven't seen Luz Ardiden in many years, it's a great climb and unlike Hautacam you dont have a long section of false flat after the Tourmalet descent.
It's not just the reduction in km of ITT, back then the mountain stages were real mountain stages, long and hard with tons of altitude gain.
Nowadays it's quantity over quality when it comes to mountain stages in the Tour.

That too, but they somehow always get stages in bad orders or design stages in such a way it negates the best climbs. I'm talking about Tourmalet MTF from the boring side, climbs that are super poorly connected, but mostly stage placement. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard, you can do something like Peyresourde > Val Louron > Plat d'Adet and it should be good without putting the fear into riders on stages before.

The last Pyrenees stage of last years Tour is one of my fave designs of the last few years and it was nothing crazy.

 

[Finn84]

If the race starts with mass start stage I would like it to be for puncheur this time, like previous Grand Depart in Brest had. 2011 had another but since then there has been six first stages for sprinters. Second stage has then been tougher and the only first stage winner who has been able to defend the jersey has been Teunissen who was member of TTT winning team last year.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That too, but they somehow always get stages in bad orders or design stages in such a way it negates the best climbs. I'm talking about Tourmalet MTF from the boring side, climbs that are super poorly connected, but mostly stage placement. Not everything needs to be incredibly hard, you can do something like Peyresourde > Val Louron > Plat d'Adet and it should be good without putting the fear into riders on stages before.

The last Pyrenees stage of last years Tour is one of my fave designs of the last few years and it was nothing crazy.

That was one of those rare time they actually got th pacing of the stages right.
1. Long (breaway) mountain stage to create a bit of fatigue, 2. the ITT, 3. the short stage with the Tourmalet MTF, 4. said stage with the Mur de Peguere as a springboard to make long range attacks.
Compare that to the Alpes in 2018...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If the race starts with mass start stage I would like it to be for puncheur this time, like previous Grand Depart in Brest had. 2011 had another but since then there has been six first stages for sprinters. Second stage has then been tougher and the only first stage winner who has been able to defend the jersey has been Teunissen who was member of TTT winning team last year.

To be fair, this year's first stage could have been a bit more intriguing in terms of who would contend for it, had the weather not intervened.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

To be fair, this year's first stage could have been a bit more intriguing in terms of who would contend for it, had the weather not intervened.

It would have been more intriguing if someone had gone for it, instead of allowing Martin and co to dictate the stage/pace to protect his leader. Wonder if Nibali would have held back in that weather.

 

[KZD]

I would really like a 40-50km rolling TT and a couple of hard mountain stages in the Pyrenees (preferably in the third week) but I don't think that I will have such luck.

 

[skippo12]

Short question. When was the last 40km + flat time trial? Stage 20 in 2014?

 

[rghysens]

Short question. When was the last 40km + flat time trial? Stage 20 in 2014?

yes.

 

[roundabout]

Is Spandelles really happening or is it wishful thinking turner rumor? I haven't seen what the road looks like, but from reading the forums, the current 'stars' would probably boycott the stage in protest should it be included.

 

[Tonton]

I will keep dreaming about this Tour but I feel like it is just gonna be a let down...

I based the depart on if the stage including "spandelles" came before and we can assume the finish wouldn't be too far from Argeles

If that's the best that ASO can come up with, I will throw a fit of massive proportions. Without going as far as I have on the design thread, the area offers so much untapped climbs. If, as reported the Alps come first, then you could have a MTF to Hautacam or try the Cap de Long, then go west to the Pays Basque and it doesn't have to be a MTF...but it can be robust. Burdincurutcheta from the north, Arnosteguy, you can derail any train with some of these climbs...

Examples:

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forum.cyclingnews.com

Page 187 - Race Design Thread

Page 187 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[jfazendeiro]

Chamrousse from Luitel

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The problem is, with how narrow they are, I don't see the Tour descending Arnostéguy or Errozate or any of those. The Vuelta descended Ahusquy, and even then that's only really narrow for the first 3-4km before the Col d'Arangaïtz. The Tour brings with it the extra caravan, the closer péloton, the greater risk, and I don't think a lot of those Iparraldean behemoths are suitable for the Tour without some widening, a lot of them will be as bad as if not worse than Plan-Bois was in the Dauphiné. In fact, if they're not happy with descending Spandelles I'd not be surprised if they're not happy with descending Bostmendieta, though if rumours suggest Spandelles is on the cards (it was used in the Route du Sud back in 2012 of course) it may be a possibility. Part of me suspects either we get Soudet then Bagargui, Labays east before Hourcère after its introduction this year and then Bagargui, or we go over Pierre Saint Martin and then return to France via Larrau south - this would be a shame as obviously Larrau north is the much stronger climb, but at the same time it would chain the last two climbs directly back to back, and we know Pierre Saint Martin in full is a killer. I'd love it if ASO are happy that Bostmendieta is doable because that would offer up a lot more opportunities. Soudet-Bostmendieta-Bagargui would chain really well and be a pretty good stage that could start in Pau.

Bostmendieta leading in also shortens the length of the Bagargui ascent and makes it less likely to discourage attacking in other stages, given it would seem likely if the rumours are to have the end of week 2 rest day in Andorra that the Pyrenees will be raced east to west.

 

[Tonton]

Chamrousse from Luitel

Haag as mentioned (a.k.a Grand Ballon via Moosch), Laffrey...but rumors about the Granon are sweet to my ears. Now that's a climb.

Ideally, if Bretagne is first, Pyrenees stages 8-9, Alps stages 14-15, some Jura and Vosges, ITT stage 18, and a mini PR on stage 20.

 

[Tonton]

The problem is, with how narrow they are, I don't see the Tour descending Arnostéguy or Errozate or any of those. The Vuelta descended Ahusquy, and even then that's only really narrow for the first 3-4km before the Col d'Arangaïtz. The Tour brings with it the extra caravan, the closer péloton, the greater risk, and I don't think a lot of those Iparraldean behemoths are suitable for the Tour without some widening, a lot of them will be as bad as if not worse than Plan-Bois was in the Dauphiné. In fact, if they're not happy with descending Spandelles I'd not be surprised if they're not happy with descending Bostmendieta, though if rumours suggest Spandelles is on the cards (it was used in the Route du Sud back in 2012 of course) it may be a possibility. Part of me suspects either we get Soudet then Bagargui, Labays east before Hourcère after its introduction this year and then Bagargui, or we go over Pierre Saint Martin and then return to France via Larrau south - this would be a shame as obviously Larrau north is the much stronger climb, but at the same time it would chain the last two climbs directly back to back, and we know Pierre Saint Martin in full is a killer. I'd love it if ASO are happy that Bostmendieta is doable because that would offer up a lot more opportunities. Soudet-Bostmendieta-Bagargui would chain really well and be a pretty good stage that could start in Pau.

Bostmendieta leading in also shortens the length of the Bagargui ascent and makes it less likely to discourage attacking in other stages, given it would seem likely if the rumours are to have the end of week 2 rest day in Andorra that the Pyrenees will be raced east to west.

True...now Burdincurutcheta is wide and super steep. the road south (descent) is good. After that, east to Larrau or west, even

The problem is, with how narrow they are, I don't see the Tour descending Arnostéguy or Errozate or any of those. The Vuelta descended Ahusquy, and even then that's only really narrow for the first 3-4km before the Col d'Arangaïtz. The Tour brings with it the extra caravan, the closer péloton, the greater risk, and I don't think a lot of those Iparraldean behemoths are suitable for the Tour without some widening, a lot of them will be as bad as if not worse than Plan-Bois was in the Dauphiné. In fact, if they're not happy with descending Spandelles I'd not be surprised if they're not happy with descending Bostmendieta, though if rumours suggest Spandelles is on the cards (it was used in the Route du Sud back in 2012 of course) it may be a possibility. Part of me suspects either we get Soudet then Bagargui, Labays east before Hourcère after its introduction this year and then Bagargui, or we go over Pierre Saint Martin and then return to France via Larrau south - this would be a shame as obviously Larrau north is the much stronger climb, but at the same time it would chain the last two climbs directly back to back, and we know Pierre Saint Martin in full is a killer. I'd love it if ASO are happy that Bostmendieta is doable because that would offer up a lot more opportunities. Soudet-Bostmendieta-Bagargui would chain really well and be a pretty good stage that could start in Pau.

Bostmendieta leading in also shortens the length of the Bagargui ascent and makes it less likely to discourage attacking in other stages, given it would seem likely if the rumours are to have the end of week 2 rest day in Andorra that the Pyrenees will be raced east to west.

Yes, I agree although the caravan shouldn't be a concern. There's still better than Ahusquy, Bagargui, meh climbs on the beaten path, when there are gems all around. Burdincurutcheta has a good descent (pavement wise), make a loop across the border to Occabe, that would be magnificent. Or bring Arnosteguy with small stuff before, non-stop, it's possible.

 

[perico]

So you're saying

Planche de belles filles

Peyragudes

Alp d'Huez.

Gap after Col de Manse

Lourdes sprint bunch sprint after Aubisque

Do I forget any classics?

I would rather have the Alpe than most of the crap Prudhomme barfs our. It’s nuts and I know Nibali fans are bitter about it after the crash, but it’s the one stage Ineos was never able to control during Froome’s run. It guarantees an attack of some sort, and the final selection is never more than 5 left.

Knowing Prudhomme though, we’ll find a secret new route that he paved to the top of Planche des Belle Filles. It’s so great we’ll just use it on every mountain stage. Except one that finishes in Bagnered de Luchon of course.

 

[perico]

Haag as mentioned (a.k.a Grand Ballon via Moosch), Laffrey...but rumors about the Granon are sweet to my ears. Now that's a climb.

Ideally, if Bretagne is first, Pyrenees stages 8-9, Alps stages 14-15, some Jura and Vosges, ITT stage 18, and a mini PR on stage 20.

If they return to Granon you can forget every bad thing I’ve said about Prudhomme, that thing is such a beast. If the Tour featured it Superbagneres and Luz Ardiden I’d nominate Prudhomme for the Nobel Peace Prize personally.

 

[Red Rick]

I would rather have the Alpe than most of the crap Prudhomme barfs our. It’s nuts and I know Nibali fans are bitter about it after the crash, but it’s the one stage Ineos was never able to control during Froome’s run. It guarantees an attack of some sort, and the final selection is never more than 5 left.

Knowing Prudhomme though, we’ll find a secret new route that he paved to the top of Planche des Belle Filles. It’s so great we’ll just use it on every mountain stage. Except one that finishes in Bagnered de Luchon of course.

Nah Brokeback Mountain is actually controllable but the difference is simply that in 2013 and 2015 Quintana was just flying harder than Froome at that stage in the race.

2018 it came after Madeleine and CdF and it was a dud.

 

[Red Rick]

I would rather have the Alpe than most of the crap Prudhomme barfs our. It’s nuts and I know Nibali fans are bitter about it after the crash, but it’s the one stage Ineos was never able to control during Froome’s run. It guarantees an attack of some sort, and the final selection is never more than 5 left.

Knowing Prudhomme though, we’ll find a secret new route that he paved to the top of Planche des Belle Filles. It’s so great we’ll just use it on every mountain stage. Except one that finishes in Bagnered de Luchon of course.

Just don't make Granon the queen stage or final alpine stage. I'm absolutely fine with it if it's the first alpine stage and it only has Lauteret before it.