Tour de France Tour de France 2022: Stage 6 (Binche – Longwy, 219.9k)

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Not blind faith sir, only results. What Pog did in the Alpes last year was simply beyond the best Roglic. And so was Strade Bianche and Carpegna in Tirreno this year. As I have already stated Roglic is working class, admirable and super dedicated, courageous, hard as nails, but Pog is prodigious, a genius on two wheels. He is a Mozart, a Bernini of pedaling and this type of genius is rare in history.
Actually, IMO Tadej also has the qualities you assign to Roglic. Seems to also possess a level of joy that has been lacking in winners of GTs. All very admirable.
 
I get it, but I don't think so. We haven't even seem peak Pog yet, which is scary.
I believe what we're seeing now is peak Pog. Of course that's just a guess but his numbers don't seem to improve much these last couple of years, but he is already strong enough to win almost everything, and is building a confidence to go on these godly raids. However he has yet to face any adversity in his career, so we will have to wait and see how he handles that (if it ever comes!). He'll likely be fine, but an early bloomer who burns out young is not unheard of.

As an aside. Roglic started cycling at 22 and became the best in the world for a while. I don't think he is just a hard worker. He is also extremely talented.
 
Unlike Evans he crashes far too often in grand tours. I think the first Tour loss to Pogacar seemed to take the wind of Roglic's sails. Since then it hasn't been close.
The guy went down after a moto dumped a hay bale in the road. Stopped, reset a dislocated shoulder and committed to almost solo work to end that stage. Today he was in the finale with that same painful condition and finished with the stage winner's time. That seems pretty close, absent the crash. It's way to early to issue a post mortem for his GT career.
 
I believe what we're seeing now is peak Pog. Of course that's just a guess but his numbers don't seem to improve much these last couple of years, but he is already strong enough to win almost everything, and is building a confidence to go on these godly raids. However he has yet to face any adversity in his career, so we will have to wait and see how he handles that (if it ever comes!). He'll likely be fine, but an early bloomer who burns out young is not unheard of.

As an aside. Roglic started cycling at 22 and became the best in the world for a while. I don't think he is just a hard worker. He is also extremely talented.
It's also in the mind. Like Oldmanish said, he is just so tranquilo. I dispute, however, we are seeing peak power now, which should come at 28-29 years. That is 5-6 years away. Lord help them!
 
I really wanted Pog to drop some time early on in this Tour, if only for the races sake but that looks unlikely now barring a crash or something unforeseen. When you think that he is only 23 years old, we could easily be watching the greatest cyclist ever such is his dominance and you have to admire the way he rides. Unlike some of the dominant grinders of the past he rides with panache and when there is a chance to attack he doesn't turn it down.
It's not very risky to attack though, if you are always clearly the strongest in the race and have no problems recovering...
One thing I am still absolutely willing to give him: he's an amazing bike handler, quite aware regarding positioning, and always calm. Short, he just knows how to do a bike race.
 
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It's also in the mind. Like Oldmanish said, he is just so tranquilo. I dispute, however, we are seeing peak power now, which should come at 28-29 years. That is 5-6 years away. Lord help them!
It's completely possible, but I doubt it. It doesn't seem to play out that way in cycling, historically. I see a Nadal to his Federer. I must admit I hope so too, because as glorious as his riding is, I suspect I will find it a bit monotonous after a decade.
 
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The guy went down after a moto dumped a hay bale in the road. Stopped, reset a dislocated shoulder and committed to almost solo work to end that stage. Today he was in the finale with that same painful condition and finished with the stage winner's time. That seems pretty close, absent the crash. It's way to early to issue a post mortem for his GT career.
Not questioning his courage or guts. Just don't see him beating Pogacar in a grand tour as things currently stand based on the past few seasons but of course Pogacar's luck can run out as well. All it takes is one fall or badly timed mechanical. Roglic will always be a podium threat but Pogacar races with a lot more confidence, maybe even some arrogance and is also a much younger talent who could still improve. WVA is the same in his own way. Roglic is in his peak years already. Like to see him switch to the Giro next season then he can still do the Vuelta.
 
It's not very risky to attack though, if you are always clearly the strongest in the race and have no problems recovering...
One thing I am still absolutely willing to give him: he's an amazing bike handler, quite aware regarding positioning, and always calm. Short, he just knows how to do a bike race.
While he may be the strongest he certainly doesn't waste attacking energy. If someone gets on him, like today; he backs off and saves it for the long leadout for the win. Confidence for the win and bonus seconds is smarter than trying to flog the front of the field and possibly getting less. You still have to do the work but he also has everyone somewhat hesitant to make a move. Glad the French dude went in the last km to try for that win, too!
 

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Feb 2, 2016
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" Van Aert is playing with our balls at the Tour de France" ---Tom Pidcock.
I wonder what he meant by that
cyclingtips balls reported:
“He’s playing with our balls isn’t he?” Pidcock said of Wout van Aert’s breakaway exploits.
“I don’t know what to say to be honest. He’s taking the piss isn’t he?”
Asked again a few minutes later by ITV, Pidcock repeated himself when asked if he had any messages for Wout van Aert: “Stop playing with our balls.”
“Although I don’t understand,” he continued, “because he goes up the road with three guys and he could have just waited once they were gone and they had two minutes and then he could have contested the final and kept the yellow…I don’t understand…it’s weird.”
 
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TJV crashing in seemingly every race, each one more farcical than the next, Van Aert's braindead, nonsensical tactics, Vingegaard not knowing what day of the week it is in interviews, it's not quite right. I'm reminded of something Jonathan Tiernan-Locke said a long time ago about half the peloton looking like zombies out there.
 
TJV crashing in seemingly every race, each one more farcical than the next, Van Aert's braindead, nonsensical tactics, Vingegaard not knowing what day of the week it is in interviews, it's not quite right. I'm reminded of something Jonathan Tiernan-Locke said a long time ago about half the peloton looking like zombies out there.
You think they're getting the wrong kind of drugs?
 
TJV crashing in seemingly every race, each one more farcical than the next, Van Aert's braindead, nonsensical tactics, Vingegaard not knowing what day of the week it is in interviews, it's not quite right. I'm reminded of something Jonathan Tiernan-Locke said a long time ago about half the peloton looking like zombies out there.
Fatigue hinders reasoning, but I think we can narrow down the reasons to the social environment of Jumbo Visma.
 
cyclingtips balls reported:
According to WVA, the team planned for him to get in the break with 10 guys. As we all saw, they only managed to get three in the break, and eventually only two were left. If they had 10, or even if Fuglsang stayed and pulled with bad intentions, they might have stayed away. So we can agree or disagree with the plan, but there it is.

Once WVA won his 20 green jersey points, and Fuglsang dropped off, WVA decided not to drop back to the pack. His reasoning was that going back to the pack would then create the possibility of another breakaway, and why would he allow that after working so hard to get into the first one. Again, we can agree or disagree with his reasoning, but he DID have reasons.

So he decided to go for it, Eddy Merckx style (who he talked to just that morning). He said he wanted to honor the yellow jersey.

A lot of people here are calling him stupid, but he just went to a different plan B when plan A didn't work out. I for one appreciate his panache. Yes, it might have made more tactical sense to go back, and in the end, he failed, but sometimes it's the crazy attempt that matters, like the ending of Tin Cup. AND if he made it, he would be in the annals of Tour history along with Sparticus' famous ride to victory wearing a yellow shirt.

No risk it, no biscuit.
 
You think they're getting the wrong kind of drugs?
I did consider that yes, nothing illegal or clinic level necessarily, story for another forum I suppose. IIRC what JTL was referring to at that point was heavy painkillers (allowed at the time) being handed out like smarties and it being responsible for an upsurge in crashes as they sap concentration levels. Roglic's separated shoulder wouldn't be pleasant to deal with without something to take the edge off, but then again the guy always sounds stoned so he's a hard one to read.

A little tinfoil hat from me perhaps, the 'team directors on radios' explanation in the other thread was more likely the main contributory factor as a lot seem to be occurring too when they are trying to surge to the front, but the yellow and black jerseys have been flying about like pinballs for the past couple of years now, including Jonas going about 5km per hour uphill (twice?).
 
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According to WVA, the team planned for him to get in the break with 10 guys. As we all saw, they only managed to get three in the break, and eventually only two were left. If they had 10, or even if Fuglsang stayed and pulled with bad intentions, they might have stayed away. So we can agree or disagree with the plan, but there it is.

Once WVA won his 20 green jersey points, and Fuglsang dropped off, WVA decided not to drop back to the pack. His reasoning was that going back to the pack would then create the possibility of another breakaway, and why would he allow that after working so hard to get into the first one. Again, we can agree or disagree with his reasoning, but he DID have reasons.

So he decided to go for it, Eddy Merckx style (who he talked to just that morning). He said he wanted to honor the yellow jersey.

A lot of people here are calling him stupid, but he just went to a different plan B when plan A didn't work out. I for one appreciate his panache. Yes, it might have made more tactical sense to go back, and in the end, he failed, but sometimes it's the crazy attempt that matters, like the ending of Tin Cup. AND if he made it, he would be in the annals of Tour history along with Sparticus' famous ride to victory wearing a yellow shirt.

No risk it, no biscuit.
Well, he already beat Cancellara with his trick on stage 4.

I can see his reasoning but I don't agree with it.
 
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