Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 15: Les Gets - Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc, 179.0k

[awavey]

People crack me up. When they show the end of the stage with the breakaway they scream show the GC. When they show the nail biting, edge of seat CG battle they scream because they only got 10 seconds of the winner from the breakaway. Some people just can Never be satisfied, must complain..... It's why I've been scarce around here, it's become more whiners corner than fun.

I dont understand why they dont show picture in picture coverage of moments like that, like when Eurosports on site team pop up for an opinion,so we have the technology, its just a choice ultimately.

personally I think they should show more than 2 secs of the winner of the stage crossing the line, especially as it was his first TdF and GT stage win, and frankly because they switched solely to helicopter view with all those trees you couldnt see when riders were gapping or attacking that easily anyway in the yellow jersey group

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Just watched final 40 - Interesting!
(sorry haven't read comments here yet, will do later)
A lot of shadowboxing from main GC contender, of which better can be observed in the clear light of hindsight.
Pogi putting strongest lineup up front - clearly to show strength and he's ready for eating new seconds.
But couldn't quite eat up today.
However, difficult for Vingegaard (and all the rest of us) to know IMO (ok I bet the CN DS forum guys were aware loong before anything happened, as usual ).
Maybe just in neighbourhood of 180k was enough to see narrow cracks in the hood.
In addition, general exhaustion that is added for each day, normally working better for Vingo in direct comparason*
Now I'm probably reading too much into it, but lucky for Pogi with a rest day tomorrow.
Just shoot at me

* but seemingly status quo between them in this edition, however, there will be no longer mountain stages this year, which could display maybe bigger difference here regarding restitution between stages.

 

[Kwibus]

I dont understand that people really think Vingegaard just sat there with perfect legs and thought to himself. "I feel fine, not sure what Pogi is trying. I just sit in his wheel despite its really easy here and I wont attack allthough i feel I can"

 

[bjaelkesex]

People crack me up. When they show the end of the stage with the breakaway they scream show the GC. When they show the nail biting, edge of seat CG battle they scream because they only got 10 seconds of the winner from the breakaway. Some people just can Never be satisfied, must complain..... It's why I've been scarce around here, it's become more whiners corner than fun.

ASO spend a year coming up with broadcasting team radio when all we ever wanted was picture-in-picture

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

The only guy that until now attacked from far is the coward, and the guy that is always attacking in the last km is not the coward.

Far attacks is 1-1 between them in this Tour. Credit Pogi for his try when he wanna show us

 

[Kwibus]

How long have you been watching cycling? Three weeks? You can't ride defensively if your entire gap amounts to the bonus seconds for a stage win. Riding the way Vingo rode today means he's either a) a coward b) stupid c) tired or d) simply not any better than Pogacar but exactly on the same level. Chose one.

What is this reply on the original comment? Someone states "how is vingegaard a coward as hes the only one that attacked from far out"

then you start about this. Thats not what he said did he? He just said that its silly when people say Vingegaard is a coward.

 

[Kwibus]

I was joking.

The move was done to destabilize Vingegaard. That's all.

But I will say Jumbo is far too defensive, i.e. potentially treating Loze on Wednesday the same way they treated the final LPDBF ITT in 2020 with Rog, aka as a 'sure thing'. There's absolutely zero guarantee Vingegaard is better than Pog on Loze, or that he's better 'enough' to the point he could mitigate whatever Pog throws at him in Tuesday's ITT & Saturday's Alsace stage.

10 seconds is nothing & it's way too close to call, either way.

How are they too passive. They tried hard yesterday, but Pogacar answered and even attacked.
They cant burn their team 2 days in a row like that and Vingegaard really couldnt drop Poga today. If he could he would.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The only guy that until now attacked from far is the coward, and the guy that is always attacking in the last km is not the coward.

His confidence was completely dented in Cauterets though. Not even one try of attacking Pogacar since then (despite mamooth work by JV yesterday and subpar looking Pogacar today).

 

[Mayomaniac]

Gall still managed to finish ahead of SimonYates, despite the mechanical on th last descent and having overall 3 bike changes on the day. His climbing legs are good, but they need to work on his triathlon level descendin and bike handling skills...

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

what a waste of weekend stages... but TT will be interesting at least

I think we watch stage races with quite different POV, presumably due to different expectations.
Personally, I've been superbly entertained during first three days in the Alps.
And this even from a guy who prefers one-day races.
For me, it's in the details, the suffering all the way down.
But OK I've stated before that for a WC RR I'm able to be electric for 8 hours even though absolutely nothing happens for the first 7½ hours

 

[Boehmand]

How long have you been watching cycling? Three weeks? You can't ride defensively if your entire gap amounts to the bonus seconds for a stage win. Riding the way Vingo rode today means he's either a) a coward b) stupid c) tired or d) simply not any better than Pogacar but exactly on the same level. Chose one.

Such a derogatory reply

Try me on - I've followed cycling for 40 years, and in that time watched more or less every Grand Tour stage, every "World Tour" race and "Pro" race broadcast, as well as reading anything I could get my hands on, before the sport started broadcasting "everything".

Have you watched and read more, or should I discount you as completely irrelevant in future debates, because you are "new" to the sport?

 

[Valv.Piti]

People crack me up. When they show the end of the stage with the breakaway they scream show the GC. When they show the nail biting, edge of seat CG battle they scream because they only got 10 seconds of the winner from the breakaway. Some people just can Never be satisfied, must complain..... It's why I've been scarce around here, it's become more whiners corner than fun.

There was nothing to see in the breakaway. Poels was way up the road and it was obvious to everyone that he massacred the break, so no reason to look at a lone rider just riding away instead of watching the ACTUAL bike race in the group. That's what most people are interested in anyway. I can't believe people are getting upset at that either.

Today was the perfect coverage in my opinion. We got too see all the action we needed from the break and the camera quickly shot a few seconds of each of the riders passing the line.

 

[memyselfandI]

Rodriguez has come up to top form for this last week nicely, I think. He'll probably does good tt. At least Vuelta last year he showed super tt-legs for a such young athlete at the backend of gt. It seems he knows basics. Strong podium contender.

It's not going to be as easy uphill tt for Pogi as it was with Roglic in La Planche des Belles Filles. Vingo is not THAT bad atm.

 

[Carols]

ASO spend a year coming up with broadcasting team radio when all we ever wanted was picture-in-picture

Good solution. But some people will still find something to complain about.

 

[Rackham]

How are they too passive. They tried hard yesterday, but Pogacar answered and even attacked.
They cant burn their team 2 days in a row like that and Vingegaard really couldnt drop Poga today. If he could he would.

Vingegaard won't know when he doesn't try something. At one point after Yates went they both really slowed down, a lot.

So just a little dig, that's all it takes. Even a mini acceleration just to test Pog. If Pog responds & counters, save something to jump onto his wheel. But the way Vingegaard has raced these past couple of days on the final climbs is the exact same way he raced last year... when he had over two minutes in GC.

10 seconds is not a cushion.

 

[D. Pecher]

Such a derogatory reply

Try me on - I've followed cycling for 40 years, and in that time watched more or less every Grand Tour stage, every "World Tour" race and "Pro" race broadcast, as well as reading anything I could get my hands on, before the sport started broadcasting "everything".

Have you watched and read more, or should I discount you as completely irrelevant in future debates, because you are "new" to the sport?

I don't think it is derogatory, because the simple truth is, there is no rationale for Vingegaard not trying anything - at all - the entire climb. Which seriously only leaves two options: He's either empty himself or too frit to launch an attack for fear of a counter. And if he's empty, quite frankly he only has his own team to blame for it considering their brutal speed antics yesterday. To be honest, for someone who annnounced that it was the team's goal to break Pogacar I would have expected him to have more to show to cash that particular checque.

 

[Kwibus]

There was nothing to see in the breakaway. Poels was way up the road and it was obvious to everyone that he massacred the break, so no reason to look at a lone rider just riding away instead of watching the ACTUAL bike race in the group. That's what most people are interested in anyway. I can't believe people are getting upset at that either.

Today was the perfect coverage in my opinion. We got too see all the action we needed from the break and the camera quickly shot a few seconds of each of the riders passing the line.

I more or less agree with this. When there is good GC action and break is decided there is no need for a lot camera time on the winner, but it's still the riders moment of glory and I do think showing 1 second of Poels at 2km to and 1 second at 1km to go and 1-2 seconds as he crosses the line is a bit extreme. If Poels wants to show the race to his kids later they will barely see him race

Give the stage winner a bit more respect imo. Normally I don't care, but I really loved it that Poels was winning and only know I noticed how depressing it is for the winner, but also his/her fans to actually barely get to see how he/she wins the race. If the choice is hard than atleast make a splitscreen, that's not too hard really.

 

[Boehmand]

I don't think it is derogatory, because the simple truth is, there is no rationale for Vingegaard not trying anything - at all - the entire climb. Which seriously only leaves two options

And yet you had 4 options in the original post - are you new to cycling? - Have you only watched it for the last 3 weeks?

 

[Kwibus]

Vingegaard won't know when he doesn't try something. At one point after Yates went they both really slowed down, a lot.

So just a little dig, that's all it takes. Even a mini acceleration just to test Pog. If Pog responds & counters, save something to jump onto his wheel. But the way Vingegaard has raced these past couple of days on the final climbs is the exact same way he raced last year... when he had over two minutes in GC.

10 seconds is not a cushion.

Yesterday Vingegaard was just happy he could get back to Pogacar. Ofcourse it was the perfect moment for him to attack Pogacar when he got back to him, but no doubt he was just completely dead and found it too risky to run into a counter from Pogacar. I was also thinking "attack now, go go!', but it's easy to say from the sidelines.

Vignegaard attacks when he feels he can. We all know that since he did it quite a few times before. When he doesn't attack it really isn't because he is thinking to spare his energy for tomorrow.

They are racing so hard every day. They are not machines.

 

[Red Rick]

There was nothing to see in the breakaway. Poels was way up the road and it was obvious to everyone that he massacred the break, so no reason to look at a lone rider just riding away instead of watching the ACTUAL bike race in the group. That's what most people are interested in anyway. I can't believe people are getting upset at that either.

Today was the perfect coverage in my opinion. We got too see all the action we needed from the break and the camera quickly shot a few seconds of each of the riders passing the line.

The bike racing in the group being just riding Yates pace?

You can switch the screen if something happens, showing Poels for only like 10 seconds was insane. Pretty sure they gave Bourgeaudeaus or however you spell his name more time.

 

[D. Pecher]

And yet you had 4 options in the original post - are you new to cycling? - Have you only watched it for the last 3 weeks?

No. Being only 49, I can't claim 40 years, but I'm definitely not new to it. But what I do know is that I've never seen anyone ride so passively who after 2 weeks had only a 10 seconds gap. Not that that we've seen that often, especially in the dark days.

 

[Kwibus]

I think we watch stage races with quite different POV, presumably due to different expectations.
Personally, I've been superbly entertained during first three days in the Alps.
And this even from a guy who prefers one-day races.
For me, it's in the details, the suffering all the way down.
But OK I've stated before that for a WC RR I'm able to be electric for 8 hours even though absolutely nothing happens for the first 7½ hours

I really don't understand how people can say what a waste of weekend stages. If this does not entertain people why do you watch cycling
So I'm with you on this one

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yates pace was enough that the whole top-10 was spread out on the entire mountain. It was a fast pace, and it would be a real shame to miss an attack at that moment. I personally couldn't care less about the break at that point, Poels won, now the suspense was elsewhere and I think the crew captured that very well. I do agree that Burgodeau got more time than Poels, unlucky, and if it was me directing, I wouldn't even have shown him. Doesn't matter at all if he finished 3rd, 10th or 130th, irrelevant to me and irrelevant to the race IMO, but no problem showing a glimpse of all the riders finishing across the line in top-10.

 

[Kwibus]

I don't think it is derogatory, because the simple truth is, there is no rationale for Vingegaard not trying anything - at all - the entire climb. Which seriously only leaves two options: He's either empty himself or too frit to launch an attack for fear of a counter. And if he's empty, quite frankly he only has his own team to blame for it considering their brutal speed antics yesterday. To be honest, for someone who annnounced that it was the team's goal to break Pogacar I would have expected him to have more to show to cash that particular checque.

Vingegaard just let himself get dropped for fun yesterday. He let his team ride all day to try and break Pogacar that's true, but Pogacar didn't break and he even attacked and dropped Vingegaard. Then when he finally manages to catch Pogacar you expect him to just attack. Sure, that's what I thought as well. If you can you must attack now, but he obviously couldn't. He just chased Pogacar for 4km up the Joux Plane with everything he had.

This is not a videogame.

 

[Boehmand]

No. Being only 49, I can't claim 40 years, but I'm definitely not new to it. But what I do know is that I've never seen anyone ride so passively who after 2 weeks had only a 10 seconds gap. Not that that we've seen that often, especially in the dark days.

Well since you have watched far less than me, your opinions are irrelevant.

Bye