Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 9: Troyes > Troyes, 199.0 km

[scribers]

Imagine that you have to ride on a bike with a saddle that is 7mm lower than usual.

If he had Ramco's balls, this would have been a better fit.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

He continued for 50km with a broken ankle??? And caught up to, and then stayed with, the GC group!!!

Cyclists' pain thresholds are insane. Remember when Hamilton ground his teeth so much from pain at the 2003 tour (racing with a broken shoulder, IIRC). Much respect to Vlasov, great rider, hope he heals quickly.

 

[Unchained]

Yup. We've figured it out. The only thing pro cycling needs to become bigger than the Premier League is to remove gravel stages from the 2025 Tour de France.

Or just have a product that can be monetized on TV, Internet and merchandising like all other sports ..Lease a Bike has decided to severe sponsorship w Manchester United.. or Redbull has pulled out w the Los Angeles Lakers and the teams existence is in question next year.. Basketball teams will all be using rollerblades because it's sweeping social media.
I have zero problem with gravel racing, no problem w road, mountain or track, cyclocross racing. All have specific planning, equipment and officiating..
Doing a hybrid gravel race is also not a problem, but when it's not optional and is a risk that is demanded in a stage race that's not right. Strada Bianchi, Paris Roubaix, Unbound, BWR, all good racing, good formats.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wnavjezt5Ps&pp=ygUZYmFzcXVlIGNvdW50cnkgY3Jhc2ggMjAyNA%3D%3D

Clean roads, high tech road brakes and tires..so if you are expecting better results using road bikes off road, just doesn't make sense.. And when you use road bikes for cyclocross, or mountain bike racing, especially at a professional level, the outcomes are predictable and often disastrous

 

[Forever The Best]

I missed those attacks in 2013

He attacked on crosswinds. His form was simply horrible on climbs. Was lucky to finish 4th. (Valverde clearly better without mechanical, Kreuziger rode for him)

 

[Unchained]

Dude, WTF are you talking about? If there's one league whose concern with player safety is passing at best, it's the NFL. They're literally denying long-term injury claims from former players. That sport involves armored players hitting each other at full speed. You're comparing that with riding bikes on gravel.NHL is another collision sport known for brain damage and all sorts of other physical injuries.

Enough with the stupid drama. They rode on gravel for part of the course, just like Strade Bianche. Should we also get rid of monuments like Paris-Roubaix because they include non-paved roads?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r58I6buCUA0&pp=ygUZYmFzcXVlIGNvdW50cnkgY3Jhc2ggMjAyNA%3D%3D

And NFL players union, the playing conditions, money involved, pensions after participation, pretty sure that for most cycing pros..example decades long domestic and European career, winner and a guy gets a job selling Knight carbon fiber wheels or is a rep for a bike company.
Most pro racers in the US needed regular jobs months not years after racing stopped.. And it's funny that the catch phrase is Worst Retirement Ever and now looking like race analysis is on the horizon.. Would be willing to compare books, pension status of an NFL player and whatever would be the equivalent in bike racing? Jelly Belly, Airgas, LA Sheriffs, NutriFig, Coors Light, Crest,Spago, 7-11? Is there somewhere to check what pensions riders from these teams are getting? Maybe should be a "where are they now?" For Rock Racing, Tinkoff, NCL..
Cycling kills itself because it's always working on basics like selling sponsorship.. In the US we have seen @20-30 years worth of team ownership model.. I think football great Franco Harris tried to superimpose NFL type thinking in bike racing.. What was the team name? And it's cool to look at novelty bike racing and novelty football!! Lingerie league, Arena, USFL, European league, all kinds of slightly different professional football products that never got traction.. And the American classics like Core States, Coors Classic, Tour of Utah, Colorado, Trump, DuPont, AMGEN, NCL( times 3,4 versions) all dead because they just didn't have a marketplace for the products..
You can turn TDF into an off road race but you have to be consistent, because when people win or crash out you need to say it was an off road version.. w an **
Barry Bonds, LA, be careful of adding too many variables..
Had one of the favorites crashed out discussion would be different..

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Cyclists' pain thresholds are insane. Remember when Hamilton ground his teeth so much from pain at the 2003 tour (racing with a broken shoulder, IIRC). Much respect to Vlasov, great rider, hope he heals quickly.

Broken collarbone from stage 1 crash, right to Paris taking 4th overall in GC, and on his way the extra-terrestrial +50k solo win at the much hilly stage 16 to Bayonne.

 

[awavey]

Imagine that you have to ride on a bike with a saddle that is 7mm lower than usual.

except due to the terrain they were riding, theyll never have been properly in full contact with the saddle because its like being caught in a tumble dryer youre being chucked about by every bump, rut, rock thats bigger than a pebble, that your wheels contact, all of that movement translates through the bike into your backside continually moving around and never settling long enough for a lower saddle height position to tell.

theres a reason gravel riders go for fatter tyres and in some cases suspension, because its to smooth that out.

In anycase most pros have the bikes set up too high anyway so they can be more aero in the slammed bar position, it was probably alot more comfortable as a result having a lower seat.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Anthony Turgis for winning the stage.

I read the whole debate and in the gist of it people discussed if Jonas should have worked with Pogi or at some point Pogi and Remco, or not. Or should he at least put Jorgenson to work. Lets say that happens, three most possible outcomes:

1.) Jonas drops everybody and is soloing over gravel and wins the stage. It's possible, but lets get real.

2.) Jonas takes the risk and rides away with Pogi, or Pogi and Remco. At the finish line he most likely gets rewarded by Pogi winning the stage and Remco finishing second. Both extending GC lead.

3.) Jonas takes the risk and rides away with Pogi, or Pogi and Remco. He takes the risk and even burns Jorgenson in the process. After a gravel section or two he gets dropped and Pogi or Pogi and Remco put minutes into him, no team around to close the gap. Personally i find this scenario the most likely one.

In the end i feel that some are just a bit salty Rogla didn't lose any time, due to his skills, and took it out on Jonas.

As for Plugge and his opinion in regards to rider safety. Anybody with the opinion things need to improve has my support. Naysayers managed this area in the past 100 years, or so, and the results are rather poor if you ask me. As for gravel being used 100 years back and for that to be a reason it makes sense to include gravel stages in modern GTs. The reason they rode on gravel, 100 years back, is due to having no other possibilities, that is on just how roads were. Lets not forget, historically speaking, roads were started to being paved, due to road cyclists.

"Roads were not built for cars": how cyclists, not drivers, first fought to pave US roads

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If naysayers would have their way we would still ride in mud and what a Tour edition it would be! Oh, wait!

 

[red_flanders]

Congratulations to Anthony Turgis for winning the stage.

I read the whole debate and in the gist of it people discussed if Jonas should have worked with Pogi or at some point Pogi and Remco, or not. Or should he at least put Jorgenson to work. Lets say that happens, three most possible outcomes:

1.) Jonas drops everybody and is soloing over gravel and wins the stage. It's possible, but lets get real.

2.) Jonas takes the risk and rides away with Pogi, or Pogi and Remco. At the finish line he most likely gets rewarded by Pogi winning the stage and Remco finishing second. Both extending GC lead.

3.) Jonas takes the risk and rides away with Pogi, or Pogi and Remco. He takes the risk and even burns Jorgenson in the process. After a gravel section or two he gets dropped and Pogi or Pogi and Remco put minutes into him, no team around to close the gap. Personally i find this scenario the most likely one.

In the end i feel that some are just a bit salty Rogla didn't lose any time, due to his skills, and took it out on Jonas.

As for Plugge and his opinion in regards to rider safety. Anybody with the opinion things need to improve has my support. Naysayers managed this area in the past 100 years, or so, and the results are rather poor if you ask me. As for gravel being used 100 years back and for that to be a reason it makes sense to include gravel stages in modern GTs. The reason they rode on gravel, 100 years back, is due to having no other possibilities, that is on just how roads were. Lets not forget, historically speaking, roads were started to being paved, due to road cyclists.

If naysayers would have their way we would still ride in mud and what a Tour edition it would be! Oh, wait!

I think you're quite right. He had nothing to gain and a ton to lose. Not his terrain. He'll certainly fight it out with them on the big mountains.

It certainly would have been VERY cool to see the 3 of them duke it out on the gravel, and put real time into the rest of the contenders. Would have been a heck of a show. But Jonas was never going to take time in that scenario and he gives zero F's about making the podium.

 

[kingjr]

I think you're quite right. He had nothing to gain and a ton to lose. Not his terrain. He'll certainly fight it out with them on the big mountains.

It certainly would have been VERY cool to see the 3 of them duke it out on the gravel, and put real time into the rest of the contenders. Would have been a heck of a show. But Jonas was never going to take time in that scenario and he gives zero F's about making the podium.

Silly Flanders, it's all about Roglic of course, you just hate him and wanted to see him lose time, don't try to deny it.

 

[red_flanders]

Silly Flanders, it's all about Roglic of course, you just hate him and wanted to see him lose time, don't try to deny it.

Haha, more a mild indifference to be honest. Rides a bit boring, talks very boring. Seems like a very decent guy. Strong finisher which I like. I just prefer the more risky, attacking style of Pogi, Remco more for sure. I've endured way too much safe, smart, boring GT racing over the last 25 years and really enjoy the newer breed of rider (Pogi, Remco, MVDP, others) who are willing to attack and blow up races.

Deeply uninterested in the weird battles between the fans of Roglič and Remco.

But you're right, I'd like Pogi to keep attacking and win, and I'd like to see Remco on the podium, so anytime Roglič and everyone else in the top 10 lose time, that's fine by me.

If Roglič had been there and it was the 4 of them attacking and racing through the end, fantastic! But he just wasn't in the mix.

EDIT:
I will say he did one thing which really chapped my hide, and that was blaming Fred Wright for his crash in the Vuelta a couple years back. That was 100%, no question, no doubt his own damn fault. He rode straight into Wright and went down when Wright held his position. As he should have.

Getting in front of the press and blaming a young rider for his blatant error, that was actually shameful. But again to be fair that was a behavioral aberration for him, he usually keeps things clean, and keeps his cards close to the vest. I think he was just crushed about what happened and in a bit of shock. I try not to hold it against him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

EDIT:
I will say he did one thing which really chapped my hide, and that was blaming Fred Wright for his crash in the Vuelta a couple years back. That was 100%, no question, no doubt his own damn fault. He rode straight into Wright and went down when Wright held his position. As he should have.

Getting in front of the press and blaming a young rider for his blatant error, that was actually shameful. But again to be fair that was a behavioral aberration for him, he usually keeps things clean, and keeps his cards close to the vest. I think he was just crushed about what happened and in a bit of shock. I try not to hold it against him.

Well, Fred could have used the brakes and get Rogla relegated after the race. Just saying. But that is long gone now, Fred needs a stage win and Rogla the Tour, that is on where we are ATM.

 

[red_flanders]

Well, Fred could have used the brakes and get Rogla relegated after the race. Just saying.

No one racing a bike would ever do that. It is not Wright's responsibility to fix Roglič's mistake. Unfortunately his priority was changed from trying to win, to trying to stay upright.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

I won't discuss this any more, all was already said. One question maybe, tell me, would you press on brakes in that situation, or not?

 

[red_flanders]

@red_flanders

I won't discuss this any more, all was already said. One question maybe, tell me, would you press on brakes in that situation, or not?

I've had it happen to me, not in a sprint but in the lead up. Yell a warning (never works, but it's the natural reaction), then elbow out, weight into the offending rider, protect yourself at all costs.

Brakes depends on position. No idea if Wright hit his or not, no idea why it would matter.

 

[RedheadDane]

EDIT:
I will say he did one thing which really chapped my hide, and that was blaming Fred Wright for his crash in the Vuelta a couple years back. That was 100%, no question, no doubt his own damn fault. He rode straight into Wright and went down when Wright held his position. As he should have.

Getting in front of the press and blaming a young rider for his blatant error, that was actually shameful. But again to be fair that was a behavioral aberration for him, he usually keeps things clean, and keeps his cards close to the vest. I think he was just crushed about what happened and in a bit of shock. I try not to hold it against him.

Same. Especially since I'm pretty sure he doubled down a few days later.
I'm, however, also pretty sure he has apologised to Wright since then.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

So ultimately yes or now? Would you use brakes in that situation, or not?

 

[red_flanders]

@red_flanders

So ultimately yes or now? Would you use brakes in that situation, or not?

You have my responses above.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

No you didn't answered this specific question, but OK, enough about this. If the only grip you have with Rogla is this, then so be it. In the end it's way below world peace level of importance, we all will live! If it wouldn't be this then something else would emerge, maybe Rogla not having as vivid moustache, as Cort. There is always something in the end.

Nobody is perfect.

 

[red_flanders]

No you didn't answered this specific question, but OK, enough about this.

I did, twice. If you want a different answer, I'd ask you to explain why the question matters. I can't see it.

I told you how I would think about it, it would be about me trying to stop the offending rider from hitting me-first verbally, then physically. Again, whether one hit the brakes would totally depend on whether one felt like that would help one not crash, and since it wasn't me in that situation, I can't say.

That you ask if he could have or should have hit the brakes and hope the jury relegated Roglič seems to indicate a lack of experience in riding in a pack, and a curious disconnection from what motivates an athlete. As well as a fairly bizarre shifting of blame. No competitive athlete wants a jury-awarded win and no rider would have time to think of this in a critical situation. This is an instant, instinctive decision of self-preservation. And it's not Wright's problem to solve.

The question is why Roglič tried to put himself into Fred Wright instead of racing beside him or filing in behind. He was cooked anyway, he had no chance to win that sprint. My best guess is that he was totally cooked from his effort, crosseyed, and made a mistake of fatigue. It happens.

Blaming Wright for it was the real problem.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

The exact same thing happened a couple of days back, on where Phillipsen was relegated and van Aert used the brakes. So lack of experience, maybe that indeed was it. And no, you didn't really answer if you would use the brakes or not. You just made a bigger wall of text trying to avoid answering it. Pun intended.

So who knows, maybe you would not use the brakes early in your career, but once more experienced, maybe you would do just that. All in all and in my opinion commissars need to be strict here, regardless of the level of experience any given rider has. Avoiding the crash at all cause and relegation after the race, that should be the predictable outcome.

P.S. Compared to on how it used to be, kids taught to defend the line at all costs.

 

[Taxus4a]

I couldnt watched properly the stage. I am watching now and there is still 70 km to go, just after the attack of Remco and Poggi...

Well, I have anything to critize to anybody, it is good for cycling everything that happens.

I understand Remco, he moved, very far from the end, buta good stage for him and not a bad moment. Pogacar has to respond, and with him Viongegaard. Vibgegaard was able to respond in a stage like him, so he has won this batlle. He has much more to lose than to gain, so he has been this battle.
Aboput roglic, always is good to distance a solid an important rider as Roglic, but Vingegaard has come to le Tour becouse they think has some options to win..and after the well he did forst stages, nor are more convinced. Not easy, burt his main anamy for that is Pogacar. Pogacar and his team did the mistake to worry too mich at the Galibier on Roglic 2 years ago, and not Vinbgegaard didnt do that mistake..if he wpould have put one minute on roglic at the end but lost just 2 second on Pogacar, he would has been defeated at this battle...If Remco fight for podium I understand. he is a super takented rider who has won La Vuelta, but here is his first Tourl he is young and has very strong rivals...no problem Vingegard is there, push and distance Roglic...Roglic of course is s good rival for podium..I understand he is afraid of him becouse he lost Cataluña with him and he was a great rival at the Vuelta...but Visma is not very worry about his ex team mate, and more becouse he is behind at GC.

But of course if Remco was angry is becouse he want to win as well, it must be like this...and know that to get involved in that Break at Jonas, improve a lot his options of podium, putting Roglic one minute or more, and the posibility to put time on Jonas....
Burt Jonas dis what he had to do, to be defensive, and to worry mainly about Ppogacar, We will see the balls he has at the stages he consider better for him, especially at la Bonnete.

But anyway we have a treasure with riders like Remco and Pogacar who are so offensive. They are more explosive than Viggo and just play his cards. Hope to see them again today, and if they dont put time, it will be another victory for Vingegaard.