Tour de France Jerseys Speculation Thread

[just some guy]

Except Sagan not riding

 

[Wurfel]

silly season has started.

Already a tdf jersey thread started today.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14010

Do you compare a specific green jersey discussion topic with a topic to list the winner of the jerseys?

 

[Francois the Postman]

I merged two threads about the same subject, and retitled the original thread to make its topic easier to spot.

 

[taiwan]

Except Sagan not riding

Hm, maybe Cav, Petacchi or Rojas then. Rojas being one of those sprinters who can get to places others can't. His last Tour was good, and he seems to be in excellent shape.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Yellow: Contador
Mountain: Soler
Points : Cavendish
White: Uran

I just hate the new point systhem for the green jersey. It just kills the competition. Whoever is the best pure sprinter will win the jersey so easily now.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Yellow: Contador
Mountain: Soler
Points : Cavendish
White: Uran

I just hate the new point systhem for the green jersey. It just kills the competition. Whoever is the best pure sprinter will win the jersey so easily now.

Yeah, we need more prizes for people who are 2nd best at what they do.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, we need more prizes for people who are 2nd best at what they do.

Or actually give puncheurs and climbers a fair chance?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Yeah, we need more prizes for people who are 2nd best at what they do.

No, but the green jersey should not just be winnable for the guy who is fastet at the end of a flat stage.
All stages should be awarded the same amount of points. And this 20 points flat sprint during the stage is a joke. It's almost worth more then a lot of stage wins.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Or actually give puncheurs and climbers a fair chance?

Yeah, and lets give sprinters a 'fair chance' for the polka dot jersey? Nonsense argument.

Anyway, I don't care, I was just having a dig at Tony.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, and lets give sprinters a 'fair chance' for the polka dot jersey? Nonsense argument.

Anyway, I don't care, I was just having a dig at Tony.

Sprinters can't win the KoM because they suck in climbing. Puncheurs are kept from the green jersey because of a rigid point system. It's called the points classification, not the sprinter classification. And you know, it would actually make the green jersey something interesting instead of it being a totally useless classification with the new rules. Cav is a one trick pony. Let the road go 5 meters uphill and he gets dropped.

The polkadot jersey is called the king of MOUNTAIN classification. And with the new rules of the KoM it will be won by a true climber now, one that's up high in the GC.

Useless sprinters get a jersey, climbers get a jersey. But rouleurs and puncheurs have no shot at a jersey with these rules and that's pathetic. Cav can only win a jersey because the rules are bend in favor for him. It's pathetic really. If he wasn't such a crybaby he'd have won it once or twice already anyway.

Yes, I would actually like to see a fight between puncheurs and sprinters for the green jersey. Not just who ever gets the most stage wins, wins the green jersey. As we all know Cav will whine on twitter like a baby when there aren't enough flat stages.

 

[Gloin22]

Yellow: Schleck
Green: Hagen
KOM: Kern
White: Uran

 

[Moondance]

Replay of the Vuelta: Gilbert vs. Cavendish.

Gilbert will take the lead early with Mont-des-Alouettes and Mur-de-Brétagne, and Cav will do his customary losing the first sprint, but then come roaring back to win every other one. Thor may have outsmarted him in 2009 but the change in rules and the simple fact that Gilbert will not be competitive in a bunch sprint (especially with Greipel around) will mean Cav takes the jersey on about stage 7 and takes it all the way to Paris.

Gilbert might be able to get points from the intermediates on mountain breakaways since the intermediate points have been jacked up, but since the points were already biased towards sprinters and the new changes make them more so, I expect that intermediate sprints in the mountain stages will become about as prestigious as the Intermediate Sprints jersey at the Tour d'Île Saint-Barthélemy.

Doesn't the Tour differentiate stage win points based on stage profile, favouring, of course, the sprinters? Will the 'Gilbert stages' award the full slate of points, is what I'm asking, essentially?

 

[El Pistolero]

Doesn't the Tour differentiate stage win points based on stage profile, favouring, of course, the sprinters? Will the 'Gilbert stages' award the full slate of points, is what I'm asking, essentially?

If it is branded as a flat stage it's the same amount of points. You can check this out at the official site. Medium mountain stages are less points and mountain stages least.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Sprinters can't win the KoM because they suck in climbing. Puncheurs are kept from the green jersey because of a rigid point system. It's called the points classification, not the sprinter classification. And you know, it would actually make the green jersey something interesting instead of it being a totally useless classification with the new rules. Cav is a one trick pony. Let the road go 5 meters uphill and he gets dropped.

The polkadot jersey is called the king of MOUNTAIN classification. And with the new rules of the KoM it will be won by a true climber now, one that's up high in the GC.

Useless sprinters get a jersey, climbers get a jersey. But rouleurs and puncheurs have no shot at a jersey with these rules and that's pathetic. Cav can only win a jersey because the rules are bend in favor for him. It's pathetic really. If he wasn't such a crybaby he'd have won it once or twice already anyway.

Yes, I would actually like to see a fight between puncheurs and sprinters for the green jersey. Not just who ever gets the most stage wins, wins the green jersey. As we all know Cav will whine on twitter like a baby when there aren't enough flat stages.

Couldn't agree more

 

[theyoungest]

Except Sagan not riding

He'll still wear green, no?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Cav can only win a jersey because the rules are bend in favor for him. It's pathetic really. If he wasn't such a crybaby he'd have won it once or twice already anyway.

Talk me through this one, given that he's already won a GT jersey and both Thor and Peta, respectively, had his number in terms of winning points, over the past 2 years, regardless of how much crying he did.

Btw, I agree with your point on it being a points and not a sprinters jersey.

As for the jerseys...

Yellow - Andy
Green - Cav
Dots - Soler or a Frenchman
White - Gesink
Team - Radioshack
Lantern Rouge - Grabsch

 

[El Pistolero]

Talk me through this one, given that he's already won a GT jersey and both Thor and Peta, respectively, had his number in terms of winning points, over the past 2 years, regardless of how much crying he did.

Btw, I agree with your point on it being a points and not a sprinters jersey.

As for the jerseys...

Yellow - Andy
Green - Cav
Dots - Soler or a Frenchman
White - Gesink
Team - Radioshack
Lantern Rouge - Grabsch

I don't really care about the Vuelta's point jersey, we're talking Tour here.

If he didn't soft pedal in the second stage Petacchi won last year when he saw he couldn't win anymore he'd have more points... He's an idiot. Just for doing that. When things aren't going his way he starts crying. He was second last year in the points before Hushovd by the way.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Yellow: A Schleck
Green: Cav
KOM: Moncoutie
White: Gesink

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't really care about the Vuelta's point jersey, we're talking Tour here.

If he didn't soft pedal in the second stage Petacchi won last year when he saw he couldn't win anymore he'd have more points... He's an idiot. Just for doing that. When things aren't going his way he starts crying. He was second last year in the points before Hushovd by the way.

He soft pedalled in at the back of his group when there were still points available on the cobbles stage too.

 

[Mambo95]

Sprinters can't win the KoM because they suck in climbing. Puncheurs are kept from the green jersey because of a rigid point system. It's called the points classification, not the sprinter classification. And you know, it would actually make the green jersey something interesting instead of it being a totally useless classification with the new rules. Cav is a one trick pony. Let the road go 5 meters uphill and he gets dropped.

The polkadot jersey is called the king of MOUNTAIN classification. And with the new rules of the KoM it will be won by a true climber now, one that's up high in the GC.

Useless sprinters get a jersey, climbers get a jersey. But rouleurs and puncheurs have no shot at a jersey with these rules and that's pathetic. Cav can only win a jersey because the rules are bend in favor for him. It's pathetic really. If he wasn't such a crybaby he'd have won it once or twice already anyway.

Yes, I would actually like to see a fight between puncheurs and sprinters for the green jersey. Not just who ever gets the most stage wins, wins the green jersey. As we all know Cav will whine on twitter like a baby when there aren't enough flat stages.

As you say, it's a points classification. But points are arbitrarily awarded. The classification is what the organisers what it to be. And they want to be firmly a sprinter's competition, more so than before, when often it went to the sprinter who could get up the climbs the best or the one who had no mishaps. As such it has more meaning than before.

You may bemoan the fact that rouleurs and puncheurs don't have a chance, but they didn't before. No non-sprinter has finished in the top three since 1995 (when two GC riders did, rather than puncheurs).

Whoever wins it will have to work harder for it than ever. They will have to sprint ever stage, and frequently twice. They will have damned well earned it.

 

[taiwan]

I'll take a points classification which just straightforwardly gives the jersey to the best sprinter. That's fine. You could say stage wins are enough reward, but if you have a few evenly matched riders it would just be some recognition for teh one that was marginally better.Points at teh end of the stage only, that'll be fine.

Also you could have a jersey for times on mountain stages alone, liek a GC minus teh TTs. That or points at the end of teh stage.

You could divide all the stages up into 'flat' and 'mountain', or even introduce a third category for intermediate stages. Two categories would open up the two jersey contests to more riders, though.

What's wrong with that?

 

[El Pistolero]

As you say, it's a points classification. But points are arbitrarily awarded. The classification is what the organisers what it to be. And they want to be firmly a sprinter's competition, more so than before, when often it went to the sprinter who could get up the climbs the best or the one who had no mishaps. As such it has more meaning than before.

You may bemoan the fact that rouleurs and puncheurs don't have a chance, but they didn't before. No non-sprinter has finished in the top three since 1995 (when two GC riders did, rather than puncheurs).

Whoever wins it will have to work harder for it than ever. They will have to sprint ever stage, and frequently twice. They will have damned well earned it.

No, they will have sprinted on easy stages for the final 100 meters. These new rules made sure Cavendish will win it every time. How anyone finds that fine is beyond me.

Yes, the old rules were crap as well. But these are even worse. It used to be won by strong sprinters like Hushovd and Zabel. Now it's going to be won by Cavendish. Who gets dropped on the tiniest of hills.

 

[taiwan]

Is Sagan definitely not riding the Tour? Cyclingfever don't have all 9 riders up yet. There appears to be room.

 

[Mambo95]

No, they will have sprinted on easy stages for the final 100 meters.

Yeah, they just magically appear at the front right at the end. There's no battling for position for 20km beforehand.

And as for Cavendish being dropped on the slightest climb, let's not forget who won this stage in 2009:

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, they just magically appear at the front right at the end. There's no battling for position for 20km beforehand.

And as for Cavendish being dropped on the slightest climb, let's not forget who won this stage in 2009:

Let's not forget his sudden drop of form since 2009

I wonder why

Past 2 years Cavendish has been extremely disappointing in even the most easy flat stages with a little hill in them near the end.

And yes, sprinters have it the easiest compared to other type of cyclists. GT contenders need to be on the front as well all times during flat stages, so that argument is completely moot. As do rouleurs and puncheurs(who often form the train for the little sprinting dude). Cav doesn't have to fight much with a team like HTC anyway. There's also little tactic involved in flat stages to go for the victory. Very little. Especially if you got a train like Cavendish. Sure the last 3km are very dangerous, but that's about it.

I want people to fight for the green jersey. And that doesn't mean sitting with your fat **** in the peloton all day and sprinting in the last 200 meters. If anything medium mountain stages should give more points than flat stages. Cause you know... They're harder...

I don't mind that mountain stages give less points though as I don't like it when a GT contender can win all jerseys just because the rules make it "easy" for them. Everything needs to be balanced a bit. So everyone has a fair chance at the points jersey. Not just people with the name Cavendish.