Tour de France Stage 3 Wanze - Arenberg Porte du Hainaut, 207km

[Cerberus]

No one but Saxo bank decides their own tactics and how they'll ride on the cobbles. They could have ridden them steadily with Frank and Andy and then rode hard to limit their losses on the tarmac but they didn't. Frank would have got time back in the hills if he hadn't taken risks. Why do climbers think it their divine right to get an armchair ride to the mountains when they have an advantage. It's a Tour for all bike riders and no one but themselves decides how to ride the course.

Jens needs to pick up his toys and just get on with the job in hand.

Yes, you're right, they could have completely thrown away their chances in the GC. Brilliant suggestion, I wonder why you're not a DS. Or they could do what they did and take the front which is the second safest thing to do, unfortunately the crash happened very close to the front and Frank broke his collarbone and shoulder. Somehow I'm not sure how much you'd like it if one of your colleagues broke his shoulder because of "work conditions".

Maziton, sport is very much reliant on fans watching so they do need entertainment. Also, guys don't crash or get caught behind when they stay up the front. Alberto, Lance and Frank were too far behind and got caught out. There losses where partially to do with some bad luck but when Cancellara hits the front you have to be on his wheel.

5 people made it through that crash, not everyone can be among the first 5 people on the cobbles. The closer you are to the front the better your chances, but only 1 guy can be on Cancellara's wheel.

 

[bobbins]

Yes, you're right, they could have completely thrown away their chances in the GC. Brilliant suggestion, I wonder why you're not a DS. Or they could do what they did and take the front which is the second safest thing to do, unfortunately the crash happened very close to the front and Frank broke his collarbone and shoulder. Somehow I'm not sure how much you'd like it if one of your colleagues broke his shoulder because of "work conditions".

They have to ride according to their riders abilities. If their riders can't confidently ride cobbles safely then they should do something different. There is no point complaining afterwards when their plan didn't work. Frank could get a minute or 2 back quite easily if he attacked in the mountains.

Unfortunately he needs both collarbones in order to do this so which plan would you say would be the best?

 

[auscyclefan94]

5 people made it through that crash, not everyone can be among the first 5 people on the cobbles. The closer you are to the front the better your chances, but only 1 guy can be on Cancellara's wheel.

I guess that's what makes the cobbles so hard. You can't sit back. You are right though.

 

[python]

just clarifying some of the mechanicals vaguely thrown around here

(i) contador haven't had puncture nor a brake problem. vino twitted that he had a spoke pulled through the rim. said he did not 'drop' berto, just did not know what was going on since his radio's battery was down
(ii) eki criticized the shack's wheel selection. said the wrong selection was responsible for so many punctures on the team.

 

[Cerberus]

They have to ride according to their riders abilities. If their riders can't confidently ride cobbles safely then they should do something different. There is no point complaining afterwards when their plan didn't work. Frank could get a minute or 2 back quite easily if he attacked in the mountains.

Unfortunately he needs both collarbones in order to do this so which plan would you say would be the best?

It's no safer to ride in the middle than in the front, more like the other way around, to be "safe" you'd have to more a less ride behind the field, which would lose you a lot more than 1-2 minutes. As for which plan is best? Risking an injury that could lose you the GC or throwing the GC away with 100% certainty? I think they chose well.

I guess that's what makes the cobbles so hard. You can't sit back. You are right though.

plus a lot of the selections are through crashes and punctures which I think is unfortunate for a GT. For one day races it's less of an issue because if you puncture in Vlaanders you can still win Roubaix, but in a GT one bad day can ruing you chances of the GT, even if you don't crash out. Plus of cause in the one day races the guys in the front are the specialists, while a GT encourages a bunch of non-specialists to be near the front messing things up.

 

[Ferminal]

5 people made it through that crash, not everyone can be among the first 5 people on the cobbles. The closer you are to the front the better your chances, but only 1 guy can be on Cancellara's wheel.

Correct.

Which is why it was so important to have a strong team specifically for one stage. Radioshack came into the Tour stacked with climbing domestiques, their team was never going to be strong enough here. Astana just wasn't quite good enough either (relative to those that they lost time on). Is it just a coincidence that the teams which prevailed were amongst the strongest on paper going into the stage - Saxo, Cervelo and BMC? In the mountains we will be saying how useless BMC and Cervelo are in support of their leaders whilst Astana and Radioshack will shine.

I think there were a lot of riders out there hoping to avoid an unlucky situation, I was nervous just watching them approach the sectors. Some were just hoping, others were hoping and actively trying to minimise their risk.

 

[Four Winds]

The dictionary definition of the word schadenfreude is taking pleasure in the misfortune of others. Like when a certain well known bike rider has been gobbing off about how he'd make time on a certain spanish rival for the last 7 months, only to puncture and end up loosing time! I have to admit I did laugh

 

[craig1985]

Wait a minute, did Menchov come through this stage without crashing?

If so, there must be some irony there.

 

[Cobber]

Anyone got a link for a video replay of the last 20k or so?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Correct.

Which is why it was so important to have a strong team specifically for one stage. Radioshack came into the Tour stacked with climbing domestiques, their team was never going to be strong enough here. Astana just wasn't quite good enough either (relative to those that they lost time on). Is it just a coincidence that the teams which prevailed were amongst the strongest on paper going into the stage - Saxo, Cervelo and BMC? In the mountains we will be saying how useless BMC and Cervelo are in support of their leaders whilst Astana and Radioshack will shine.

I think there were a lot of riders out there hoping to avoid an unlucky situation, I was nervous just watching them approach the sectors. Some were just hoping, others were hoping and actively trying to minimise their risk.

BMC is not that bad...

 

[Benotti69]

............HTFU AC. Bang bang.

pressure on the Uniballer getting too much for ya Polly baby....

relax he's gonna put the hammer down the next 20 days....folllow the trail of blood

 

[Christian]

I think that even though Andy's chances of winning the Tour have not increased significantly, it is now rather likely that he'll be in yellow at some point during the Tour, maybe even until the last ITT.

That's something, at least, since he's never been the leader of a GT.

 

[step23]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...tent-after-tour-de-france-cobblestones_126504

 

[craig1985]

WaaWaa What a baby. Excuse maker.
Bet Zipp would wish he would close his yap.

I remember a few years back when Lance rode a stage with the brakes rubbing. He joked about it post stage - did not complain waawaa.
And it was his rear brake - he did not notice until after when his mechanic told him lol.

Alberto could look down and see his front brake rubbing.
C'mon, reach down and open the release.

If it is still rubbing, gnaw through the HB tape and housing and chew through the cable. HTFU AC. Bang bang.

Do you post drunk? Would explain a lot.

 

[The Hitch]

Anyone got a link for a video replay of the last 20k or so?

if you live in the uk i do.

 

[The Hitch]

if contador had a broken wheel why didnt vino give him his bike like good domestuques do to their team leaders?????

 

[Climbing]

Wait a minute, did Menchov come through this stage without crashing?

If so, there must be some irony there.

I still can't believe that!
I sense something suspect underneath!

 

[oncehadhair]

WaaWaa What a baby. Excuse maker.
Bet Zipp would wish he would close his yap.

I remember a few years back when Lance rode a stage with the brakes rubbing. He joked about it post stage - did not complain waawaa.
And it was his rear brake - he did not notice until after when his mechanic told him lol.

Alberto could look down and see his front brake rubbing.
C'mon, reach down and open the release.

If it is still rubbing, gnaw through the HB tape and housing and chew through the cable. HTFU AC. Bang bang.

You don't really believe that story - about the brake rubbing?
Have you ever ridden a bike with the brake rubbing?

 

[luckyboy]

if contador had a broken wheel why didnt vino give him his bike like good domestuques do to their team leaders?????

Vino was pulling that group along though, AC only fell back in the last 3kms. If Vino did that, he would've had to wait for the car, and probably wouldn't have been able to get back up to AC.

 

[The Hitch]

Vino was pulling that group along though, AC only fell back in the last 3kms. If Vino did that, he would've had to wait for the car, and probably wouldn't have been able to get back up to AC.

vino could have taken acs bike. they are the same height so probably have the same size bike. Vino would just have to ride harder. But ac was wasting a lot of energy riding that bike and got distanced in the end, so wouldnt it have been better for him to just go on vinokorovs bike and have a far easier ride.

 

[luckyboy]

Ah yeah, guess so. Maybe they just didn't think, what with the no radio and all..

 

[cyclingmad]

It's no safer to ride in the middle than in the front, more like the other way around, to be "safe" you'd have to more a less ride behind the field, which would lose you a lot more than 1-2 minutes. As for which plan is best? Risking an injury that could lose you the GC or throwing the GC away with 100% certainty? I think they chose well.


plus a lot of the selections are through crashes and punctures which I think is unfortunate for a GT. For one day races it's less of an issue because if you puncture in Vlaanders you can still win Roubaix, but in a GT one bad day can ruing you chances of the GT, even if you don't crash out. Plus of cause in the one day races the guys in the front are the specialists, while a GT encourages a bunch of non-specialists to be near the front messing things up.

Agree with this post about inclusion of Cobbles in a GT
While it is exciting to have Cobbles in a grand tour it is too much of a lottery. Armstrong, the Schlecks, Evans and Contador were all positioned roughly in the same position jostling around hitting the cobbled sectionS.
Luck played too much a part, Frank Schleck went over a rider in front of him nothing he could have done different. Armstrong and Contador were around the area of the crash and were impeded more than Andy Schleck and Evans so missed the selection this was just pure bad luck.
Armstrong looked good on the cobbles and near drove it up to the front group before he punctured and paid for it dearly. I despise Armstrong but still am annoyed that he lost time for bad luck rather than inferior riding ability. Contador wasn't as unlucky as Armstrong but still lost time purely because of bad luck and gained on other contendors with even worse fortunes. Evans and Andy Schleck were no better than anyone on the cobbles just had good fortune which shouldn't be a deciding factor in the tour.
Other riders like Basso and Carlos Sastre also lost a lot of time with mechnical problems and now are over 2 mins down going into the mountains. If it is very close between riders in the mountains there are more attacks with lots to gain. Now with guys like Basso and Sastre so far back Schleck and Contador can let them go to an extent and mark each other a bit more which has a negative effect on the race tactics later in the mountains less selections and splits made.
The gaps created on this stage have a negative more than a positive influence on the race and dont help the best riders

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

Yep, it appears that Martin fell just in front of him and due to the high speeds they were at, he crashed right into him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2vwNmsc7v4

Watch it at 0:47-0:48. It's pretty hard to make out because of that high tree being just in front of him, but if you look closely, you see someone falling before they pass the tree and then Schleck hitting the ground shortly thereafter.

Fignon sounds awful as well, but good to know he soldiers on. I wish him all the best.

 

[Dominar]

Agree with this post about inclusion of Cobbles in a GT
While it is exciting to have Cobbles in a grand tour it is too much of a lottery. Armstrong, the Schlecks, Evans and Contador were all positioned roughly in the same position jostling around hitting the cobbled sectionS.
Luck played too much a part, Frank Schleck went over a rider in front of him nothing he could have done different. Armstrong and Contador were around the area of the crash and were impeded more than Andy Schleck and Evans so missed the selection this was just pure bad luck.
Armstrong looked good on the cobbles and near drove it up to the front group before he punctured and paid for it dearly. I despise Armstrong but still am annoyed that he lost time for bad luck rather than inferior riding ability. Contador wasn't as unlucky as Armstrong but still lost time purely because of bad luck and gained on other contendors with even worse fortunes. Evans and Andy Schleck were no better than anyone on the cobbles just had good fortune which shouldn't be a deciding factor in the tour.
Other riders like Basso and Carlos Sastre also lost a lot of time with mechnical problems and now are over 2 mins down going into the mountains. If it is very close between riders in the mountains there are more attacks with lots to gain. Now with guys like Basso and Sastre so far back Schleck and Contador can let them go to an extent and mark each other a bit more which has a negative effect on the race tactics later in the mountains less selections and splits made.
The gaps created on this stage have a negative more than a positive influence on the race and dont help the best riders

Add my vote to yours - I agree with everything you said (except for the despising Lance thing - I've found it's impossible to "know" someone just based on what you read and hear in the media, so I try not to judge). Cobbles are great for a 1-day race, but shouldn't be so determinative in a GT.

Had the cobbles been placed at the beginning of the race (so that the unlucky riders had a chance to make up lost time) or had the organizers allowed teams to provide replacement bikes along the side of the road (so that the unlucky riders with punctures/mechanicals at the wrong time wouldn't be totally hosed), I might well feel differently. But as it is, I've got "morning after" regrets.

 

[Cerberus]

Add my vote to yours - I agree with everything you said (except for the despising Lance thing - I've found it's impossible to "know" someone just based on what you read and hear in the media, so I try not to judge). Cobbles are great for a 1-day race, but shouldn't be so determinative in a GT.

Had the cobbles been placed at the beginning of the race (so that the unlucky riders had a chance to make up lost time) or had the organizers allowed teams to provide replacement bikes along the side of the road (so that the unlucky riders with punctures/mechanicals at the wrong time wouldn't be totally hosed), I might well feel differently. But as it is, I've got "morning after" regrets.

Actually I think that putting cobbles in early would have been even worse. If you do that the only way they'd ever matter is if someone has a bad crash and if they do the gaps can be huge (Mayo in 200X for example). Putting them in the end makes for smaller gaps and some exciting racing. I don't think there should be cobbles in GTs, but if they're there they should be near the end - otherwise they're going to be either pointless or way to decisive.