Tour de France - Stage 9, 168.5km - Saint-Girons / Bagnères-de-Bigorre, July 7th

[Cimber]

Just to put some gasoline on the fire, as we say in Italy, italian journalist just reported that most of teams didnt pass water bottles to those riders of Team Sky who got dropped and that's why Kyrienka found himself without water for some kms and got a big crisis.

Well we have often seen that in different races Sky chaces breaks that were no danger to the GC. An unwritten rule in the peloton is that the team of the leading rider dont act as "cannibals" (i.e. wanna take it all ). This could be a pay back for such behaviour.

 

[el_angliru]

How it happened: Movistar's attack in screenshots pt. 1

How it happened: Movistar's attack in screenshots, part 1

124,6 km to go - At Menté GPM
Danielson (GRS), Hesjedal (GRS), Trofimov (KAT) reach the col a few seconds ahead of the Froome/Contador/Valverde group.

124,3 to go
Rolland (EUC) & Anton (EUS) try to bridge across to the front group on the descent.

110 km to go
Lots of riders are now gathered in several groups 1 minute ahead of the Froome group. Riders present are at least: De Clercq (LOT), Gallopin (RLT), Rolland (EUC), Jeannesson (FDJ), Peraud (ALM), Bardet (ALM), Kreuziger (TST), Rogers (TST), Moreno (KAT), Trofimov (KAT), Anton (EUS), Insausti (EUS), Nieve (EUS), Castroviejo (MOV), Costa (MOV), Serpa (LAM), Hesjedal (GRS), Danielson (GRS), Martin (GRS), Talansky (GRS), Méderel (SOJ), Vuillermoz (SOJ). There's also a BMC rider and one from Vacasoleil. Possibly a few others.

108,7 km to go
Valverde and Ruben Plaza attack from the Froome/Contador group. Froome bridges.

104 km to go
Overview of the situation which is quite chaotic: 4 men at the front (at the top of the screenshot); after them a group of 13 (I think), then a lone rider, and a finally a group of 9. Behind these (not visible in the screenshot) seems to be a Movistar rider falling back to the Valverde/Froome trio further back the road. And after them is the Contador group.

103,4 km to go
Saxo is doing all the work in the Contador group.

 

[el_angliru]

How it happened: Movistar's attack in screenshots pt. 2

How it happened: Movistar's attack in screenshots, part 2

103 km to go
Michael Rogers stops riding in the front group (according to a report from Rolf Sørensen, who's sitting next to Rogers on the motor bike)! Rogers is going to fall back in order to help the Contador group bridge across...

102,4 km to go
Castroviejo has dropped back from the front to help Valverde & Plaza chasing the front groups.

101,2 km to go
Michael Rogers is dropping back to help the Contador group.

100,5 km to go
The Valverde trio (now a quartett) catches one of the front groups.

99,8 km to go
The Movistar riders ride to the front of this group and continues the chasing.

97,7 to go
Two Movistar riders attack from the Froome group but are chased down by Garmin. Froome is sitting far back in the group.

96,9 km to go
Froome and Valverde (and a Garmin rider) drop back to the Contador group and we're back at status quo.

 

[Ramira]

Nicely done, a good roundup of what happened.

 

[wwabbit]

Nice work el_angliru. I can't imagine why Porte couldn't at least hold on with the Contador group. He must have been sleeping, completely popped or was sent back to help Kennaugh. BTW, at what km was Kennaugh's fall?

 

[Afrank]

Nice work el_angliru. I can't imagine why Porte couldn't at least hold on with the Contador group. He must have been sleeping, completely popped or was sent back to help Kennaugh. BTW, at what km was Kennaugh's fall?

With 146 km to go. So at km 23.

 

[Cimber]

The moment Froome bridged Valverde should have sat up.

 

[Cimber]

Nice work el_angliru. I can't imagine why Porte couldn't at least hold on with the Contador group. He must have been sleeping, completely popped or was sent back to help Kennaugh. BTW, at what km was Kennaugh's fall?

Porte was dropped before that. When he was dropped Contador, Froome and Valverde were all in the same group. That group didnt split up until the valley. Porte wasnt falling back voluntarily, he was simply dropped like a stone on the climb

 

[jens_attacks]

The moment Froome bridged Valverde should have sat up.

and after, quintana with other movistar to attack...froome after them,catches them, rui costa with another movistar to attack...froome catches them, alberto with saxo collegue goes, froomey would have cracked

of course those are close to fantasy tactics...but maybe it was the only chance to beat him...we'll see in the alpes

 

[wwabbit]

Obviously Valverde sees Contador as a rival, not an ally.

 

[wwabbit]

Porte was dropped before that. When he was dropped Contador, Froome and Valverde were all in the same group. That group didnt split up until the valley. Porte wasnt falling back voluntarily, he was simply dropped like a stone on the climb

Still doesn't make sense to me if you look at the list of people that didn't get drop and compare them to Porte. Furthermore he looked pretty good while trying to fight his way back.

Maybe he just has a terrible one-day recovery, which may also explain his mediocre TT at the last stage of Pais Vasco, right after burning himself winning the previous stage.

 

[UpTheRoad]

The moment Froome bridged Valverde should have sat up.

I agree completely. Unless the goal was to gap Contador and Kreuziger, and more likely prevent Porte from ever catching back on, once Froome bridged they should have sat up until the next coordinated attack.

I could not believe that they would continue to drive on, as if they thought it would be possible to ride Froome off their wheel.

Could it be that Valverde was protecting his GC slot and also indirectly helping solidify Froome in first?

 

[el_angliru]

The moment Froome bridged Valverde should have sat up.

I agree. I'm not a big fan of how Saxo Tinkoff rode the stage (very defensively) but that move by Valverde was stupid. Movistar rode very hard for 12 km with Froome on their wheels, while Saxo was also riding very hard behind them. Both Movistar and Saxo had to sacrifice one of their men in the front group and neither Team gained anything. A total waste of effort.

I agree completely. Unless the goal was to gap Contador and Kreuziger, and more likely prevent Porte from ever catching back on, once Froome bridged they should have sat up until the next coordinated attack.

Kreuziger was in the one of the front groups ahead of Valverde/Froome/Contador when Valverde attacked. But otherwise I agree.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Porte was dropped before that. When he was dropped Contador, Froome and Valverde were all in the same group. That group didnt split up until the valley. Porte wasnt falling back voluntarily, he was simply dropped like a stone on the climb

What was worse, he was passed by guys as Poels and Gesink who came back later, he couldn't even hold their wheel.. so he was just having a bad day..

 

[Cimber]

Still doesn't make sense to me if you look at the list of people that didn't get drop and compare them to Porte. Furthermore he looked pretty good while trying to fight his way back.

Maybe he just has a terrible one-day recovery, which may also explain his mediocre TT at the last stage of Pais Vasco, right after burning himself winning the previous stage.

Sometimes you just have a bad day, especially if you went to hard the day before. I know you arent use to that if you are a sky fan but thats really cycling for you, and its part of the charm of the sport. You are always at risk of losing the GC if you have a bad day

 

[wwabbit]

It looks to me like his goal was to gap Contador. He can't do anything about Froome at his wheel, but he can do something about Contador now since the opportunity is there, then try to fight Froome another day.

 

[UpTheRoad]

I agree. I'm not a big fan of how Saxo Tinkoff rode the stage (very defensively) but that move by Valverde was stupid. Movistar rode very hard for 12 km with Froome on their wheels, while Saxo was also riding very hard behind them. Both Movistar and Saxo had to sacrifice one of their men in the front group and neither Team gained anything. A total waste of effort.


Kreuziger was in the one of the front groups ahead of Valverde/Froome/Contador when Valverde attacked. But otherwise I agree.

Sky has made a living on pushing a very fast, steady pace. Both Saxo and especially Movistar lined it up perfectly for Froome. He is in his element when he can get behind a train really moving, which is exactly what Movistar did for him. Zero change of pace. Zero sense to me.

I still don't understand why they would drag Froome up to the first group. Attack. Once Froome catches sit up and go again in a bit. Did they forget about Fuente De? They saw it first hand and could have at least tried to repeat it.

Movistar had a few in the group ahead. If they could have gotten a gap on a chasing Froome, they could have hit the leading group with a few in there already and then really put the hammer down.

Froome could have been on his own chasing for a long time. Even if the Contador group had caught up to CF in no man's land, Froome would have had to do some work (or all of it). Instead he could just sit on wheels.

Of course it is easy to sit back and comment, but they had 100+ km where Froome was isolated and there was one attack on the flat, and attacks in the mountains by Quintana and that's it.

 

[UpTheRoad]

It looks to me like his goal was to gap Contador. He can't do anything about Froome at his wheel, but he can do something about Contador now since the opportunity is there, then try to fight Froome another day.

This seems like the best explanation. Remove a threat from someone behind on GC and then fight Froome another day.

Plus, the move ensured that Porte would be gone never to return.

Still not a fan of what occurred, but this seems like the most likely reasoning.

 

[Cimber]

It looks to me like his goal was to gap Contador. He can't do anything about Froome at his wheel, but he can do something about Contador now since the opportunity is there, then try to fight Froome another day.

No no no. Well I agree that he rode against Contador (i.e he rode for 2nd) but it was damn stupid. Froome is the strongest guy and he already has a Nice advantage in the GC. Futhermore he was totally isolated with a long way to the finish. That usually never ever happens. You have to grap that unique opportunity to beat him. Contador, however, is speaker than Froome but had a lot of team mates ready to bridge him up. Saxo and Movistar should hve used this unique chance to put the hammer on Froome and then fight eachother another day

 

[wwabbit]

This debate is totally pointless if you simply can't understand that Movistar and Saxo Bank are two different teams with their own goals, and not a single combined Team MoviSaxoKillFroomeForCimbersSatisfaction.

 

[UpTheRoad]

This debate is totally pointless if you simply can't understand that Movistar and Saxo Bank are two different teams with their own goals, and not a single combined Team MoviSaxoKillFroomeForCimbersSatisfaction.

Not pointless and I can understand that they are two different teams with different goals and agendas.

I am just a bit confused when the strongest guy in the race is completely isolated for over 100 km, and he only had to put himself into the wind for a minute or so chasing Valverde, and then for a minute tops chasing Quintana.

It would seem sensible that Valverde should have taken the opportunity to distance Froome and worry about Contador later, as presumably he would have a better shot against AC given current form.

Evans sat in the whole time. Contador didn't do anything. Belkin had three in the group and tried nothing until the flats, and never tried to distance anyone even though two are in top 5.

I'll suggest that Evans, Belkin and Saxo were smart to sit in an do nothing because if they had tried, Movistar would have taken up the chase. Not Froome. Movistar.

 

[wwabbit]

I think you are confusing two different situations.

Situation 1: Large escape group in front, Valvarde group attempts to bridge, Froome bridges to Valverde, Contador's group attempts to bridge to Valverde.

Situation 2: Everyone together again with Froome isolated.

In Situation 1, it is clear the Valverde's group was right to push the pace to attempt to gap Contador.

Situation 2 is more debatable.

 

[Cimber]

This debate is totally pointless if you simply can't understand that Movistar and Saxo Bank are two different teams with their own goals, and not a single combined Team MoviSaxoKillFroomeForCimbersSatisfaction.

Some times (actually happens more than tou might think) goals of teams collide. And in this case it should have been to use the unique opportunity to crush the yellow jersey. Instead Movistar rode for 2nd (I call it epic fail if they are satisfied with that), and Saxo might have been a bit to defensive (though they had put Kreuziger up the road.

It screams to the heavens that in tha situation they had the same interest... If their goal is to win the race and not just podium

 

[Cimber]

I think you are confusing two different situations.

Situation 1: Large escape group in front, Valvarde group attempts to bridge, Froome bridges to Valverde, Contador's group attempts to bridge to Valverde.

Situation 2: Everyone together again with Froome isolated.

In Situation 1, it is clear the Valverde's group was right to push the pace to attempt to gap Contador.

Situation 2 is more debatable.

In sit 1 both teams had super doms up the road who were a danger to Froome in the GC. Perfect situation for both teams. Dangerous for Froome. Its ok for Valverde to try to bridge but as soon as Froome was in his wheel he should have stopped, and maybe make Quintana counter. That would wear up Froome and og not the super doms up road are still perfect situation

 

[Cimber]

According to the secret Pro there is a rivalry between Valverde and Contador to be THE Spanish rider. That might explain their inability of the teams to work together in the situation, cos logic cannot