Tour de France - Stage 9, 168.5km - Saint-Girons / Bagnères-de-Bigorre, July 7th

[UpTheRoad]

What does situation 2 matter if nobody tries to take advantage of Froome's isolation?

Froome didn't even have to show his face into the headwind for essentially the entire time he was alone against all the other GC contenders and their lieutenants.

Why would gapping Contador matter more than gapping Froome? Why would it matter if you also note that AC had a number of teammates with him while Chris Froome didn't?

I think that a huge opportunity was lost on this stage. Froome "won" the TdF on stage 8 and the others "lost" it on stage nine.

 

[wwabbit]

What does situation 2 matter if nobody tries to take advantage of Froome's isolation?

Froome didn't even have to show his face into the headwind for essentially the entire time he was alone against all the other GC contenders and their lieutenants.

Why would gapping Contador matter more than gapping Froome? Why would it matter if you also note that AC had a number of teammates with him while Chris Froome didn't?

I think that a huge opportunity was lost on this stage. Froome "won" the TdF on stage 8 and the others "lost" it on stage nine.

In Situation 1, they attempted to gap Froome, but he made the bridge and it became an opportunity to gap Contador and they took the opportunity.

Situation 2 was when they could have taken advantage of Froome's isolation. Now, if they were 1 big team against Froome alone, it would be a no-brainer - they will be sending riders to take turns attacking Froome. However, Movistar and Saxo are different teams that are also competing against each other for placings. If one attacks, the other will have to respond and may even counter-attack.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

In Situation 1, they attempted to gap Froome, but he made the bridge and it became an opportunity to gap Contador and they took the opportunity.

Situation 2 was when they could have taken advantage of Froome's isolation. Now, if they were 1 big team against Froome alone, it would be a no-brainer - they will be sending riders to take turns attacking Froome. However, Movistar and Saxo are different teams that are also competing against each other for placings. If one attacks, the other will have to respond and may even counter-attack.

Once Froome caught them in situation 1, it stopped being a ride to win. That is the whole point Cimber wants to make. Distancing Contador is fine and all, but it won't win you the Tour. And winning kinda is the purpose we think Valverde and his team should have.

 

[el_angliru]

We can always fantasize about all sorts of dream scenarios but this is the Tour, and teams and riders will always be working very hard for goals that would be unimportant in any other race.

Some teams wants a podium spot, some teams wants a top 10 spot, some wants to win the team competition, and so on. A podium wouldn't matter much to Contador (having won several GT's already), but it would be huge for Valverde or Purito! And a top 10 gc would be absolutely unbelievable for Fuglsang or many of the French riders.

So yeah, in theory I think they should ride to win the tour - all riders - but in reality it's not likely to happen. Most of the riders are aiming for less than a Tour win, and they are content with less than that.

But we saw something of a dream scenario at the Giro 2012. Ryder Hesjedal was in a big group with a lot of other gc contenders in the valley before the ultimate Stelvio climb. Thomas de Gendt had attacked from a breakaway group further up the road and was the virtual leader. Meanwhile noone in Hesjedal's group wanted to chase De Gendt who was increasing his lead. It seemed like Hesjedal was about to lose his Giro at this very moment. But luckily for Ryder, he had Vandevelde in the breakaway too, so Vandevelde could drop back and start the chasing of De Gendt. If Ryder hadn't had Vandevelde that day he could very well have lost the Giro.

Froome was actually in a much worse situation at stage 9 of this year's Tour. But it was an impossible collective project with Garmin going for the stage, Movistar and Saxo working against each other, Belkin and Movistar working for the Team competition, Europcar for the Polka dot, and so on...

But it would be nice if they all said f*** the secondary goals, let's go for the Tour win!

 

[LaFlorecita]

According to the secret Pro there is a rivalry between Valverde and Contador to be THE Spanish rider. That might explain their inability of the teams to work together in the situation, cos logic cannot

There cannot even be a discussion about who is the spanish national pride out of those two.

 

[Cimber]

We can always fantasize about all sorts of dream scenarios but this is the Tour, and teams and riders will always be working very hard for goals that would be unimportant in any other race.

Some teams wants a podium spot, some teams wants a top 10 spot, some wants to win the team competition, and so on. A podium wouldn't matter much to Contador (having won several GT's already), but it would be huge for Valverde or Purito! And a top 10 gc would be absolutely unbelievable for Fuglsang or many of the French riders.

So yeah, in theory I think they should ride to win the tour - all riders - but in reality it's not likely to happen. Most of the riders are aiming for less than a Tour win, and they are content with less than that.

But we saw something of a dream scenario at the Giro 2012. Ryder Hesjedal was in a big group with a lot of other gc contenders in the valley before the ultimate Stelvio climb. Thomas de Gendt had attacked from a breakaway group further up the road and was the virtual leader. Meanwhile noone in Hesjedal's group wanted to chase De Gendt who was increasing his lead. It seemed like Hesjedal was about to lose his Giro at this very moment. But luckily for Ryder, he had Vandevelde in the breakaway too, so Vandevelde could drop back and start the chasing of De Gendt. If Ryder hadn't had Vandevelde that day he could very well have lost the Giro.

Froome was actually in a much worse situation at stage 9 of this year's Tour. But it was an impossible collective project with Garmin going for the stage, Movistar and Saxo working against each other, Belkin and Movistar working for the Team competition, Europcar for the Polka dot, and so on...

But it would be nice if they all said f*** the secondary goals, let's go for the Tour win![/QUOTE]

Exactly. When class riders like Valverde is happy with 2nd it always saddens me. Also it would make the race so much more interesting if all the big shots actually rode to win.

But even if we just look at it logically and not about GC placements: on the flat why try to gap the guy who has 3-4 strong riders with him(two of them really strong TTers) to help close the gap, instead of trying to gap the captain who has 0 helpers. Either way its just illogical. But maybe if there is a Spanish rivalry between the two there might be some emotional reason

 

[Cimber]

Once Froome caught them in situation 1, it stopped being a ride to win. That is the whole point Cimber wants to make. Distancing Contador is fine and all, but it won't win you the Tour. And winning kinda is the purpose we think Valverde and his team should have.

Spot on. (10 char)