Tour de Pologne 2.WT 31/07 - 06/08

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think you need to calm down, Degenkolb, Matthews and Guardini have all had better seasons with wins against better guys, up to this point.

Just did a quick check to confirm, and all 3 of the guys I named have beaten Kittel this season to win sprints - I think people need to stop trying to extrapalate from minor races unless they're trying to ironic, lets see what Marcel has in Spain.

 

[goggalor]

Another brilliant sprint by Kittel. He only hit the front with 50 m to go today, and still had 25 m to celebrate. He can already both do short explosive sprints and long ones.

I think we finally have a rival for Cavendish Even more impressive already then Cav's first pro season.

Hopefully Kittel will be more than just a sprinter, though.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

You do realize Kittel has just beaten Degenkolb 3 times in a row now huh?

Cav fanboy alert. And Matthews doesn't have a more impressive season than Kittel lol.

When Degenkolb beat Kittel 3 stages in a row earlier this year did that make him better then?

When Guardini beat him 6 times in a row (and every time they have raced against each other) did that make him better?

I don't have time for this nonsense, try to check some facts.

 

[El Pistolero]

Just did a quick check to confirm, and all 3 of the guys I named have beaten Kittel this season to win sprints - I think people need to stop trying to extrapalate from minor races unless they're trying to ironic, lets see what Marcel has in Spain.

I just did a quick check to confirm and Kittel has beaten Degenkolb 3 times now in 3 days

Matthews has beaten him once. But Kittel has beaten him more already in Pologne, in Delta Zeeland, etc

You do realize he's in the Tour de Pologne right?

Guardini, Matthews, Degenkolb and Kittel have only won small races so far. Yet Guardini is the real deal and Kittel isn't?

But yeah, Guardini will make Cav's life hard as well. So what you're saying is that we couldn't expect anything from Cav in 2008 after his 2007 season? LOL.

 

[El Pistolero]

Another brilliant sprint by Kittel. He only hit the front with 50 m to go today, and still had 25 m to celebrate. He can already both do short explosive sprints and long ones.

Hopefully Kittel will be more than just a sprinter, though.

He has a good time trial as well. Degenkolb seems more like the classics kinda that can do a decent sprint.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I just did a quick check to confirm and Kittel has beaten Degenkolb 3 times now in 3 days

Matthews has beaten him once. But Kittel has beaten him more already in Pologne, in Delta Zeeland, etc

You do realize he's in the Tour de Pologne right?

Guardini, Matthews, Degenkolb and Kittel have only won small races so far. Yet Guardini is the real deal and Kittel isn't?

But yeah, Guardini will make Cav's life hard as well.

Look, I'm not here to have an argument.

The situation seems relatively simple to me. All of these 4 young riders have beaten each other (apart from Guardini being unbeaten by the other 3) at different points of the season, including lots of long runs of wins - Kittel is on a streak now, but was similarly beaten repeatedly by Guardini and Degenkolb just a few months ago.

The fairly obvious explanation is form - this is clearly a focus for Kittel, whilst for many riders it is the first race back from a summer break.

We won't know who is the superstar for a year or two yet, so please don't pretend Kittel is obviously the one here. Yes, this is a protour race, but the quality of sprint competition is no higher than any of the other races these guys usually compete in. Matthews won a protour race against much stiffer competition in Australia, where similar caveats for form apply even stronger. Degenkolb has stage wins in the Dauphine, which I would suggest is rather more impressive.

It is going to take a while to know who of the 4 are going to make the next step.

 

[El Pistolero]

Look, I'm not here to have an argument.

The situation seems relatively simple to me. All of these 4 young riders have beaten each other (apart from Guardini being unbeaten by the other 3) at different points of the season, including lots of long runs of wins - Kittel is on a streak now, but was similarly beaten repeatedly by Guardini and Degenkolb just a few months ago.

The fairly obvious explanation is form - this is clearly a focus for Kittel, whilst for many riders it is the first race back from a summer break.

We won't know who is the superstar for a year or two yet, so please don't pretend Kittel is obviously the one here. Yes, this is a protour race, but the quality of sprint competition is no higher than any of the other races these guys usually compete in. Matthews won a protour race against much stiffer competition in Australia, where similar caveats for form apply even stronger. Degenkolb has stage wins in the Dauphine, which I would suggest is rather more impressive.

It is going to take a while to know who of the 4 are going to make the next step.

Dauphiné sprinting field is crap as well. Besides Degenkolb has shown he's a guy to keep an eye out in the classics(in a few years) and not just a pure sprinter. Kittel is peaking for the Vuelta like everyone else in this race(except the Polish). Don't use the form argument here.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Dauphiné sprinting field is crap as well. Besides Degenkolb has shown he's a guy to keep an eye out in the classics(in a few years) and not just a pure sprinter. Kittel is peaking for the Vuelta like everyone else in this race(except the Polish). Don't use the form argument here.

Yes, but how about the substance of my post. These 4 guys have all done well. Guardini is the only 1 to have beaten any big names (although when beating the crap sprinters at the Dauphine Degenkolb beat Farrar & Boassen Hagen).

Not sure how Degenkolb having other skills makes him a worse sprinter. Does Kittel's TT ability slow him down?

There is no reason, based purely on results, to assume any of these guys is vastly better than the others, we will have to wait to see.

 

[El Pistolero]

How about you just watch the race and see how Degenkolb gets beaten by more then a bike length. Guardini had a strong start of the season, but hasn't done much since then.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Just to get the facts straigt:
in sprints they actually competed against each other (which are 4) it stands 2 wins for Guardini and 2 wins for Kittel. In the Tour of Lakawi it wasn't yet clear who was the lead out man and who was the sprinter at Skill. So Van Hummel and Kittel switched roles more than one time during the race.

Besides - and I think this is important if you really want to compare Kittel and Guardini - Kittel can handle hills allright for a Sprinter, Guardini can't handle anything that only looks like a bumb on the road. He seems to be incredibly fast, but it's no wonder he hasn't won any high category race yet. He just doesn't posess the abilities to do that just yet.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I see that Kittel is El Pistofflero's new stick to bash HTC with.

3 short, virtually identical criterium stages are hardly proof of anything.
Besting "Never Win" Kristoff, an off colour Haussler and Roman Feillu is hardly definitive, either.

Nevertheless, the young German has had an impressive 3 days.

 

[El Pistolero]

I see that Kittel is El Pistofflero's new stick to bash HTC with.

3 short, virtually identical criterium stages are hardly proof of anything.
Besting "Never Win" Kristoff, an off colour Haussler and Roman Feillu is hardly definitive, either.

Nevertheless, the young German has had an impressive 3 days.

I guess that means Cav's wins on the Champs don't mean anything as well then.

As a neo pro winning the first 3 stages in a World Tour race and you think it doesn't mean anything yet? Talk about high standard. Nobody's saying he's going to constantly beat Cav next year, but he'll definitely be one of the top sprinters in the nearby future. Just as Cav was in 2007.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Classic in name only.

yet classic nonetheless. His sprints were very impressive though. But Degenkolb was good in the 'openingsweekend' he has a great future as a cobble man and a sprinter imo

 

[El Pistolero]

I see that Kittel is El Pistofflero's new stick to bash HTC with.

3 short, virtually identical criterium stages are hardly proof of anything.
Besting "Never Win" Kristoff, an off colour Haussler and Roman Feillu is hardly definitive, either.

Nevertheless, the young German has had an impressive 3 days.

I don't beat dead horses, sorry.

 

[taiwan]

Kittel: most impressive sprinting neo-pro so far?

 

[Reverend_T_Preedy]

Fair play to Kittel. He looks a massive talent.

However, I have to say that the first three stages of the Tour of Poland have to be a complete and utter massive steaming turd. It has to be the most boring start to any stage race in the history of cycling. How that race is World Tour is completely beyond me. The next few stages have to be completely Giro standard epic to even make this race marginally interesting.

What a bunch of **** kickers the organisers are.

Anyway, rant over....

 

[goggalor]

I don't beat dead horses, sorry.

Your best post ever.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Fair play to Kittel. He looks a massive talent.

However, I have to say that the first three stages of the Tour of Poland have to be a complete and utter massive steaming turd. It has to be the most boring start to any stage race in the history of cycling. How that race is World Tour is completely beyond me. The next few stages have to be completely Giro standard epic to even make this race marginally interesting.

What a bunch of **** kickers the organisers are.

Anyway, rant over....

We need the Peace Race back

 

[theyoungest]

Fair play to Kittel. He looks a massive talent.

However, I have to say that the first three stages of the Tour of Poland have to be a complete and utter massive steaming turd. It has to be the most boring start to any stage race in the history of cycling. How that race is World Tour is completely beyond me. The next few stages have to be completely Giro standard epic to even make this race marginally interesting.

What a bunch of **** kickers the organisers are.

Anyway, rant over....

It's not the most boring start to any stage race in the history of cycling. It's the most boring start since last year's Tour of Poland

But last year, the second half was really entertaining. Remember, Dan Martin won, so there's climbing involved.

 

[Tank Engine]

Fair play to Kittel. He looks a massive talent.

However, I have to say that the first three stages of the Tour of Poland have to be a complete and utter massive steaming turd. It has to be the most boring start to any stage race in the history of cycling. How that race is World Tour is completely beyond me. The next few stages have to be completely Giro standard epic to even make this race marginally interesting.

What a bunch of **** kickers the organisers are.

Anyway, rant over....

I agree, maybe the organizers are trying to get the crowds out and circuits are the best way. They could find more interesting terrain though, even on the Central European Plain. The Mazurian lakes in the North-East are picturesque and rolling (the roads are generally bad though and the area is fairly sparsely populated). Kaszubia is an somewhat hilly area to the south of Gdansk known as Poland's little Switzerland. At least they show the Carpathians. The racing will start tomorrow, but generally only those we knew were not going to win will get dropped. Look out for Sagan and Haussler, with Marcato to play the role of Rojas.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Look out for Sagan and Haussler, with Marcato to play the role of Rojas.

you mean getting 2nd and third?

 

[theyoungest]

I agree, maybe the organizers are trying to get the crowds out and circuits are the best way. They could find more interesting terrain though, even on the Central European Plain. The Mazurian lakes in the North-East are picturesque and rolling (the roads are generally bad though and the area is fairly sparsely populated). Kaszubia is an somewhat hilly area to the south of Gdansk known as Poland's little Switzerland. At least they show the Carpathians. The racing will start tomorrow, but generally only those we knew were not going to win will get dropped. Look out for Sagan and Haussler, with Marcato to play the role of Rojas.

Wasn't it Marcato who had his finest hour on this exact same stage last year?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Some people are clearly watching this race for the first time now.

As long as I can remember the Tour of Pologne has the same build up every year.
3 flat stages finishing on circuits
1 intermediate stage which usually ends in a group sprint
2 hard stages with climbing involved
1 final flat stage, sometimes replaced by 1 climbing time trial.

It's always been like that since the race became Pro (now World) Tour, this year no different

 

[Kwibus]

Also the discussion about sprinters... pfff.
Matthews and Degenkolb are imo not pure sprinters. They are powerful guys that should be able to ride good in classics and slightly uphill sprints or sprints just after a climb that got rid of the really fast sprinters.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Marcel Kittel is not a pure sprinter either. He's much more versatile than that:
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19455
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19318
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=15259
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=8689 (check out the guy who came in just ahead of him)