Tour Down Under Stage 2: Lobethal - Stirling 148km

[Ferminal]

Wow! Broadcasters are still using Windows Media??? Does anybody have a different video link?
Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yph5K8vndTs

They are only streamed live at that time daily.

 

[Panda Claws]

So it was still a 70 man bunch sprint, extra lap didn't really do anything tangible to the end result then.

Can we consider Matthews "one of the best" in a moderate uphill finish yet?

Not until he beats Hushovd.

 

[Panda Claws]

Valverde 4th

Wonder if Philbert is watching this.
Great way to get back in competition.

 

[maltiv]

Valverde 4th

Wonder if Philbert is watching this.
Great way to get back in competition.

I don't think a 4th place in TDU makes Gilbert shiver

 

[c&cfan]

Valverde 4th

Wonder if Philbert is watching this.
Great way to get back in competition.

daddy is back

 

[Ferminal]

Not until he beats Hushovd.

What is so special about Hushovd that he becomes the benchmark for when one graduates to being "one of the best" false flat-uphill sprinters? Is Hushovd only borderline "one of the best" ?

 

[theyoungest]

What is so special about Hushovd that he becomes the benchmark for when one graduates to being "one of the best" false flat-uphill sprinters? Is Hushovd only borderline "one of the best" ?

Hushovd is pretty good at this type of finish. Still, I'd back Matthews over him 90 % of the time. Only after 260 km in a really hard race Hushovd will probably beat him.

 

[Kwibus]

Maybe your focussing on Rabo a little too much when watching races, there aren't many teams with great sprint trains. Rabo do lack a little bit of experience in that regard, that's true, but sprinting is not exactly their core business.

Hehe. This might be true

 

[maltiv]

What is so special about Hushovd that he becomes the benchmark for when one graduates to being "one of the best" false flat-uphill sprinters? Is Hushovd only borderline "one of the best" ?

Not really. The benchmark is to perform in an uphill sprint in a bigger race than TDU. Matthews is, relatively speaking, in much better shape than the guys he beat today (and last year in the same finish). Of course it depends on how one defines "one of the best", but if it's top 3 then I certainly don't agree (yet).

 

[theyoungest]

Not really. The benchmark is to perform in an uphill sprint in a bigger race than TDU. Matthews is, relatively speaking, in much better shape than the guys he beat today (and last year in the same finish). Of course it depends on how one defines "one of the best", but if it's top 3 then I certainly don't agree (yet).

I don't know about his form relative to the others. Like I said, he's taking a different approach to the season, and he has no racing in the legs apart from the Aussie nationals, unlike last year.

 

[Panda Claws]

What is so special about Hushovd that he becomes the benchmark for when one graduates to being "one of the best" false flat-uphill sprinters? Is Hushovd only borderline "one of the best" ?

Hushovd was 3rd in stage 1 tour 2011. Or was that gradient to high to count for this?

 

[theyoungest]

Hushovd was 3rd in stage 1 tour 2011. Or was that gradient to high to count for this?

And when a stage finished in an actual uphill bunch sprint, he got 10th and 3d, respectively. Behind Boasson Hagen and Goss, for instance.

 

[Panda Claws]

Nevermind then. I was talking about harder finishes than the others.

Yeah in that case Matthews is probably one of the top 5.

 

[will10]

And when a stage finished in an actual uphill bunch sprint, he got 10th and 3d, respectively. Behind Boasson Hagen and Goss, for instance.

Barcelona 2009 and a hatful of others in the Tour in the years before that, even before he was a "top" sprinter, Hushovd was always a good pick for uphill bunch sprints.

 

[Ferminal]

Not really. The benchmark is to perform in an uphill sprint in a bigger race than TDU. Matthews is, relatively speaking, in much better shape than the guys he beat today (and last year in the same finish). Of course it depends on how one defines "one of the best", but if it's top 3 then I certainly don't agree (yet).

2010 U23 Worlds 1st. Wins easily over Degenkolb (false flat).

2011 TDU Stage 3 1st. Beats Greipel who had decent form and Goss who had very good form.

2011 ToP Stage 5 2nd. Breaks out of the pack and closes on Sagan, beats Haussler, Marcato, Degenkolb.

2011 ToB Stage 3 2nd. Rides away from Cav.

2012 TDU Stage 2. Bit of a no contest as legs are hurting or sprinters have been dropped, but this is no different to say Hushovd and the stage he won in Switzerland last year.

You make it out that the sprints in the TDU are nothing, yet really they are as fiercely contested as any other race outside the Tour and early sprints in the Giro/Vuelta. You don't get everyone in perfect form outside of the Tour or a flat worlds so at some stage you have to disregard relative form if you want to actually judge a cyclist outside those races.

Who's better? Cav/Greipel/Goss if it's a rapid run in, but I'm not exactly sure that's what we're talking about.

Sagan.
Hushovd (historically).
EBH is hit and miss.

I'd favour him for a top5 finish on a drawn out run to the line with the final 500m @ 4-5%, to me that makes him one of the best.

Hushovd was 3rd in stage 1 tour 2011. Or was that gradient to high to count for this?

Is that the same one where all the sprinters where on the ground at 10km and 1km, and Gilbert put 10s into him?

 

[maltiv]

2010 U23 Worlds 1st. Wins easily over Degenkolb (false flat).

2011 TDU Stage 3 1st. Beats Greipel who had decent form and Goss who had very good form.

2011 ToP Stage 5 2nd. Breaks out of the pack and closes on Sagan, beats Haussler, Marcato, Degenkolb.

2011 ToB Stage 3 2nd. Rides away from Cav.

2012 TDU Stage 2. Bit of a no contest as legs are hurting or sprinters have been dropped, but this is no different to say Hushovd and the stage he won in Switzerland last year.

You make it out that the sprints in the TDU are nothing, yet really they are as fiercely contested as any other race outside the Tour and early sprints in the Giro/Vuelta. You don't get everyone in perfect form outside of the Tour or a flat worlds so at some stage you have to disregard relative form if you want to actually judge a cyclist outside those races.

Who's better? Cav/Greipel/Goss if it's a rapid run in, but I'm not exactly sure that's what we're talking about.

Sagan.
Hushovd (historically).
EBH is hit and miss.

I'd favour him for a top5 finish on a drawn out run to the line with the final 500m @ 4-5%, to me that makes him one of the best.



Is that the same one where all the sprinters were on the ground at 10km and 1km, and Gilbert put 10s into him?

So Matthews won the u23 worlds in an uphill sprint, but Hushovd became the world champion in the same uphill sprints. Not exactly a good argument to prove that Matthews is the better of the two.

EBH, Goss, Sagan and Hushovd (he might have lost it a little though) have all won several uphill sprints in very prestigious races so I'd rate them ahead of Matthews.

TDU is hard to use in such comparisons, same with TdP, because greater riders will certainly have a lot weaker form. If you only look at the TDU then Cavendish is a horrible sprinter, for example...

 

[Ferminal]

So Matthews won the u23 worlds in an uphill sprint, but Hushovd became the world champion in the same uphill sprints. Not exactly a good argument to prove that Matthews is the better of the two.

EBH, Goss, Sagan and Hushovd (he might have lost it a little though) have all won several uphill sprints in very prestigious races so I'd rate them ahead of Matthews.

TDU is hard to use in such comparisons, same with TdP, because greater riders will certainly have a lot weaker form. If you only look at the TDU then Cavendish is a horrible sprinter, for example...

Where did I say he was better than Hushovd? Wouldn't listing him after Sagan and before Matthews tend to indicate that I suggested Hushovd would be better?

 

[theyoungest]

That Tour de Pologne sprint was pretty impressive by Matthews, certainly since it happened when he was supposed to have faded away

The Tour of Britain doesn't mean much. Otherwise, Lars Boom trumps them all in terms of uphill sprints...

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

What is? I certainly hope you don't say stage races

well despite what you say, they had some decent consistent results with more then a single rider last year

but alas I think being a jack of all trades yet ultimately failing is their area
--

impressive by will clark.

Matthews is a very good rider. His contract is 2 years long.. or 3? Wonder if he resigns.

also props to valv. looking good

in all honesty I was a little dissapointed with ebh.

 

[Flamin]

I haven't seen the highlights yet but I think the peloton ultimately stuffed around and Movistar just wanted to send riders up the road for a while instead of riding.

According to Valverde and the Movistar DS, they were the only team prepared to ride at the front and control the breakaway in the first part the race. That's why they gave up and just sent a few guys in an attack.

 

[theyoungest]

well despite what you say, they had some decent consistent results with more then a single rider last year

but alas I think being a jack of all trades yet ultimately failing is their area
--

impressive by will clark.

Matthews is a very good rider. His contract is 2 years long.. or 3? Wonder if he resigns.

also props to valv. looking good

in all honesty I was a little dissapointed with ebh.

Of course not. He'll go to the monster that eats Aussie sprinters, Greenedge.

 

[Tuarts]

Seems like the peloton let the foot of the gas and then when Kohler came back after grabbing his points they went to sleep.

Congrats to Clarke for capitalising on the situation.

 

[Ferminal]

Of course not. He'll go to the monster that eats Aussie sprinters, Greenedge.

Maybe one day he could even lead out Gerrans to 4th on Cauberg.

 

[classicomano]

2011 ToP Stage 5 2nd. Breaks out of the pack and closes on Sagan, beats Haussler, Marcato, Degenkolb.

And if he positioned himself properly he wouldve easily overtaken Sagan.

 

[maltiv]

Where did I say he was better than Hushovd? Wouldn't listing him after Sagan and before Matthews tend to indicate that I suggested Hushovd would be better?

Sorry, misread your post. Still, those aren't enough examples to put him ahead of Goss (won a uphill sprint in Giro) or EBH (uphill sprint in TDF) in my opinion. You know you're lacking results when one of your first examples is a 2nd place in TdP, followed by a 2nd in ToB