Tour Match Up: Gesink v Van Den Broeck

[goggalor]

Where's the Hesjedal option?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Hey DenisMenchov

Did you know that, if we take the pure climbing time from the Tour 2010, Gesink was actually 16 seconds BETTER than Vandenbroeck in the mountain stages?

The 4'30 difference originates from the cobble stage (where Gesink rode with a broken ulna), and the time trial (which was quite poor for compared to Gesinks normal ITT level in 2009 and 2011).

This year Gesink delivered time in time trials. Vandenbroeck never did such good time trials as Gesink in 2008, 2009 and 2011.

 

[maltiv]

...D_T, where art thou? This guy needs a Gesink-TT lesson!

Hey DenisMenchov

Did you know that, if we take the pure climbing time from the Tour 2010, Gesink was actually 16 seconds BETTER than Vandenbroeck in the mountain stages?

The 4'30 difference originates from the cobble stage (where Gesink rode with a broken ulna), and the time trial (which was quite poor for compared to Gesinks normal ITT level in 2009 and 2011).

This year Gesink delivered time in time trials. Vandenbroeck never did such good time trials as Gesink in 2008, 2009 and 2011.

Took longer than expected!

 

[Moondance]

Where's the Hesjedal option?

You seem to misunderstand the concept of a Match Up.

TGBM is only there for comedic purposes.

 

[boomcie]

Im seeing some nice factions emerging here.

Gesink - Moondance, Timmy, Ruben, youngest, Havets, Barrus, Kwibus a few others.

JVDB- Pistrollero, Michael, Buffalo Soldier (boomcie?, thirteen)

Samu Sanchez- The Hitch, NV Pachi, (Ferminal, Libertine Seguros?)

Evans- ACF,dlwssonic, Sporzchick (if she finds her way) back, Tuarts, blaxland, bicing, greenedge a few others.
Soler - Ryo Hazuki

Any other takers?

I'll be rooting for him, but talent-wise he is no match for Gesink. I like your setup though, makes the race more exciting.

Personally I don't think either of them has a great style on the bike, but okay.

Ha!
+1

Hey DenisMenchov

Did you know that, if we take the pure climbing time from the Tour 2010, Gesink was actually 16 seconds BETTER than Vandenbroeck in the mountain stages?

The 4'30 difference originates from the cobble stage (where Gesink rode with a broken ulna), and the time trial (which was quite poor for compared to Gesinks normal ITT level in 2009 and 2011).

This year Gesink delivered time in time trials. Vandenbroeck never did such good time trials as Gesink in 2008, 2009 and 2011.

It's old news for everyone, but he was very good at TT-ing when he was younger. He even became World champion by beating the awesome riders Kvachuk and Scheuneman.

 

[Greenflame]

It will all come down to who peaks at the right moment and who has the most luck.

If both do not fall off their bikes, peak at the exact right moment, have a decent manager in their team car and don't have any bad luck Gesink would probably end higher.
However, Gesink is much more likely to fall of his bike or mistime his peak and Breukink in the team car doesn't workexactly in his favour either. Plus, somehow I feel like it's much more likely for Gesink to encounter bad luck than for Van Den Broeck to do so. In other words, with these factors compensating, I'd say the odds are about equal. Voted for Gesink anyway, since as I said he's the better rider in an equal race.

Not that it really matters anyway since neither of them is going to beat Contador, the Schlecks (well, Frank might be at around their level, they could beat him), Basso, Sanchez and Evans for the podium anyway.

 

[Franklin]

Breukink in the team car doesn't workexactly in his favour either. .

You do realize that Rabo managed to win three GT's in the last ten years?

Liquigas, CSC, UsPostal (-> Astana), they are the only teams that have a comparable or better result.

And on the other hand JvdB has team managers that never even pulled of a anything remotely close of a podium spot.... talk about not working in someones favor

Facts are a such a killer versus unwarranted bias...

 

[goggalor]

You seem to misunderstand the concept of a Match Up.

TGBM is only there for comedic purposes.

Well I'm voting for the Hes-jay anyways.

 

[theyoungest]

You do realize that Rabo managed to win three GT's in the last ten years?

Liquigas, CSC, UsPostal (-> Astana), they are the only teams that have a comparable or better result.

And on the other hand JvdB has team managers that never even pulled of a anything remotely close of a podium spot.... talk about not working in someones favor

Facts are a such a killer versus unwarranted bias...

Add to that the fact that Breukink isn't a DS anymore... (except maybe in the Tour of California).

Dutchies like to complain, it's their nature, but frankly I don't see what's so terrible about Breukink as a DS either. He's won 3 GTs with a guy who is arguably less talented than Evans, who used to be coached by the same guys who are now coaching VDB.

 

[Frosty]

You do realize that Rabo managed to win three GT's in the last ten years?

Liquigas, CSC, UsPostal (-> Astana), they are the only teams that have a comparable or better result.

And on the other hand JvdB has team managers that never even pulled of a anything remotely close of a podium spot.... talk about not working in someones favor

Facts are a such a killer versus unwarranted bias...

If it comes to podiums then Evans got 2nd in the tour in 2007 and 2008 with Lotto, has the management changed since then? I thought Sergeant was the DS? Doesnt match three wins though.

 

[Greenflame]

You do realize that Rabo managed to win three GT's in the last ten years?

Liquigas, CSC, UsPostal (-> Astana), they are the only teams that have a comparable or better result.

And on the other hand JvdB has team managers that never even pulled of a anything remotely close of a podium spot.... talk about not working in someones favor

Facts are a such a killer versus unwarranted bias...

Hehe, sorry, I just can't stand the guy, so yes I am very biased here. Still I've never been impressed with his tactical genius. You're probably right though, he won't diminish Gesink chances.

Oh, and OPL was Evans' team, he did get a few podium places there, including runner-up at the Tour, which is actually higher than Rabo have come

Edit- Got beaten to that by Frosty..

 

[El Pistolero]

You do realize that Rabo managed to win three GT's in the last ten years?

Liquigas, CSC, UsPostal (-> Astana), they are the only teams that have a comparable or better result.

And on the other hand JvdB has team managers that never even pulled of a anything remotely close of a podium spot.... talk about not working in someones favor

Facts are a such a killer versus unwarranted bias...

2gts only actually. That Vuelta in 2005 was lost and later given to him again.

And yeah, OLO team managers sure can't get podiums this season

February 16 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 1 UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Portugal Albufeira
February 19 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 4 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Portugal Tavira
February 24 Vuelta a Andalucía, Combination classification UCI Europe Tour Jurgen Van Den Broeck (BEL) Spain
February 24 Vuelta a Andalucía, Sprints classification UCI Europe Tour Jan Bakelants (BEL) Spain
March 5 Montepaschi Strade Bianche UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Italy Siena
March 13 Tirreno–Adriatico, Stage 5 UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Italy Castelraimondo
March 29 Three Days of De Panne, Stage 1 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium Zottegem
April 13 Brabantse Pijl UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Overijse
April 16 Ronde van Drenthe, Youth classification UCI Europe Tour Adam Blythe (GBR) Netherlands
April 17 Amstel Gold Race UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Netherlands Cauberg
April 20 La Flèche Wallonne UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Huy
April 24 Liège–Bastogne–Liège UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Ans
April 29 Tour of Turkey, Stage 6 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Turkey Finike
May 13 Giro d'Italia, Stage 7 UCI World Tour Bart De Clercq (BEL) Italy Montevergine
May 15 Tour de Picardie, Points classification UCI Europe Tour Kenny Dehaes (BEL) France
May 26 Tour of Belgium, Stage 2 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium Knokke-Heist
May 28 Tour of Belgium, Stage 4 UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Eupen
May 29 Tour of Belgium, Stage 5 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium Putte
May 29 Tour of Belgium, Overall UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium
May 29 Tour of Belgium, Points classification UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium
May 29 Giro d'Italia, TV classification UCI World Tour Jan Bakelants (BEL) Italy

But OPL is a fail team right? Pretty sure some of you Dutchies mentioned that quite a few times here(before the good results started pouring on of course)

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, bringing up Lotto's excellent 2011 results in a discussion about the last decade and conveniently forgetting terrible years like, oh, 2010. Good for you.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, bringing up Lotto's excellent 2011 results in a discussion about the last decade and conveniently forgetting terrible years like, oh, 2010. Good for you.

2010 was terrible in what way? Boy, Euskaltel must be an incredible bad team year in year out then. Let's see, did they win a stage in the Giro? Yup. A jersey? Yup. Did they fail at the Tour? Nope, 5th place. Did they fail at the Vuelta? 2 stage wins and 5 days in the red leaders jersey. Boy, they sure fail!

I'm pretty sure digging up results from the far past are useless and results from the distant past are much more useful in a case like this. Or do you think posting their 2003 season is going to help the discussion here

Good for you.

Ps: I even left out Cuddles(not remotely close to a podium yet a second place in 2007/2008. How does that work?). Adversus solem ne loquitor.

 

[Ferminal]

Gesink will seal his victory in the ITT....

 

[Galic Ho]

Im seeing some nice factions emerging here.

Gesink - Moondance, Timmy, Ruben, youngest, Havets, Barrus, Kwibus a few others.

JVDB- Pistrollero, Michael, Buffalo Soldier (boomcie?, thirteen)

Samu Sanchez- The Hitch, NV Pachi, (Ferminal, Libertine Seguros?)

Evans- ACF,dlwssonic, Sporzchick (if she finds her way) back, Tuarts, blaxland, bicing, greenedge a few others.

Soler - Ryo Hazuki

Any other takers?

Yeah me. Contador for the DOUBLE.

I think Evans and Samu will do rather well, so no surprise there as I've said so many times. I hope Horse Face blows big time. That would be priceless. One can hope right?

To answer the OP. They are about the same IMO. We'll see though.

I mean put it this way, certain Orange warriors get all uptight about their boy, particularly when I mention his name this last week in regard to past performances. Why? They rate him, quite highly. So why on Gods green earth would you compare him with Jurgen "I cried to mummy" Van den ******bag? If Gesink is as amazing as claimed by the Orange Army, surely the OP would have listed him amongst the likes of Basso or Samu, not Jurgen! The fact the OP started the thread along the premise and foundation shown in the title and poll, comparing next door neighbours, is revealing itself. Why? Because historically performance wise, that is what we can expect.

I don't think either will make the podium. Fighting for 4th or 5th at best, amongst themselves.

 

[Ryaguas]

Im seeing some nice factions emerging here.

Gesink - Moondance, Timmy, Ruben, youngest, Havets, Barrus, Kwibus a few others.

JVDB- Pistrollero, Michael, Buffalo Soldier (boomcie?, thirteen)

Samu Sanchez- The Hitch, NV Pachi, (Ferminal, Libertine Seguros?)

Evans- ACF,dlwssonic, Sporzchick (if she finds her way) back, Tuarts, blaxland, bicing, greenedge a few others.

LOL? Where am I rooting for someone in that list??? geez...

he'll know better how to handle the pressure from the annoying Belgian media now.

Still remember an interview last year where He said that He was SICK of all people in Pistolero's land asking him always about the Tour and only about it... even his own family! He wanted to talk about other things but ppl just was always talking about the Tour... hahaha

Why are we discussing this??
VDB2 will not even be in the top 10!
Gesink and Coppel will finish above him!

P.D: Operation "Allez Coppel!!" Has begun!

 

[Andre.J]

Just like last year: VDB will finish ahead of him.

 

[movingtarget]

I was impressed with both of them in last year's Tour but Gesink is still the better time trialler. I think that will be the difference again. I hope they can both close the gap further on Schleck and Contador or at least stop the race being another match race like last year.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

2gts only actually. That Vuelta in 2005 was lost and later given to him again.

And yeah, OLO team managers sure can't get podiums this season

February 16 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 1 UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Portugal Albufeira
February 19 Volta ao Algarve, Stage 4 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Portugal Tavira
February 24 Vuelta a Andalucía, Combination classification UCI Europe Tour Jurgen Van Den Broeck (BEL) Spain
February 24 Vuelta a Andalucía, Sprints classification UCI Europe Tour Jan Bakelants (BEL) Spain
March 5 Montepaschi Strade Bianche UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Italy Siena
March 13 Tirreno–Adriatico, Stage 5 UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Italy Castelraimondo
March 29 Three Days of De Panne, Stage 1 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium Zottegem
April 13 Brabantse Pijl UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Overijse
April 16 Ronde van Drenthe, Youth classification UCI Europe Tour Adam Blythe (GBR) Netherlands
April 17 Amstel Gold Race UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Netherlands Cauberg
April 20 La Flèche Wallonne UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Huy
April 24 Liège–Bastogne–Liège UCI World Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Ans
April 29 Tour of Turkey, Stage 6 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Turkey Finike
May 13 Giro d'Italia, Stage 7 UCI World Tour Bart De Clercq (BEL) Italy Montevergine
May 15 Tour de Picardie, Points classification UCI Europe Tour Kenny Dehaes (BEL) France
May 26 Tour of Belgium, Stage 2 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium Knokke-Heist
May 28 Tour of Belgium, Stage 4 UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium Eupen
May 29 Tour of Belgium, Stage 5 UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium Putte
May 29 Tour of Belgium, Overall UCI Europe Tour Philippe Gilbert (BEL) Belgium
May 29 Tour of Belgium, Points classification UCI Europe Tour André Greipel (GER) Belgium
May 29 Giro d'Italia, TV classification UCI World Tour Jan Bakelants (BEL) Italy

But OPL is a fail team right? Pretty sure some of you Dutchies mentioned that quite a few times here(before the good results started pouring on of course)

Gilbert domination and Greipel victories really indicates genius GC management.

as for some of the classifications you mentioned. lol.

 

[nvpacchi]

Im seeing some nice factions emerging here.

Gesink - Moondance, Timmy, Ruben, youngest, Havets, Barrus, Kwibus a few others.

JVDB- Pistrollero, Michael, Buffalo Soldier (boomcie?, thirteen)

Samu Sanchez- The Hitch, NV Pachi, (Ferminal, Libertine Seguros?)

Evans- ACF,dlwssonic, Sporzchick (if she finds her way) back, Tuarts, blaxland, bicing, greenedge a few others.

Soler - Ryo Hazuki

Any other takers?

woah, we gotta weak corner right now.

Even though CQ Head-2-Head points to JVB2 having a better TT than Gesink, Gesink taking out Porte, Vino, and Samu in the Pais Vasco TT was awfully impressive

 

[Franklin]

Ah yes, I forget Evans. So add two podium spots versus 3 won GT's (sure, one was "given", but also one was taken away) and a long list of top ten spots. For the discussion as being Rabo DS being a liability it's still quite a rather compelling argument

2gts only actually. That Vuelta in 2005 was lost and later given to him again.

And yeah, OLO team managers sure can't get podiums this season

You are the cake and the cream... on a discussion of GT podium spots you come with that list?

You actually hate Omega Pharma, otherwise you wouldn't troll yourself

Funniest post I've ever seen from you

 

[theyoungest]

Gilbert domination and Greipel victories really indicates genius GC management.

as for some of the classifications you mentioned. lol.

Come on, we all know that Gilbert always listens to his DS. Example: after riding everyone off his wheel on the Bosberg in Flanders, we heard his DS tell him: "Ride the time trial of your life, Phil!"

Immediate reaction: looking back and waiting for the others.

 

[hrotha]

2010 was terrible in what way?

In that they won what, five races? And aside from Gilbert no one else could be counted on to win anything of note, flukes aside?

 

[Kwibus]

I voted for Gesink, because he has a lot more natural talent than VDB2.

He has to show it this TdF though. I'm not 100% convinced he will show it....
Besides Oman where he had no competition from climbers he wasn't very brilliant on the hills/mountains. I'm not sure what to expect from him in the mountains this year. His TT seems to be a lot better though.

I somehow fear for the TdF this year. Gesink hasn't convinced me yet, but I hope I'm wrong ofcourse.

VDB2 is an uninspiring rider imo. His only focus is the TdF in which he did very well last year, but that simply bores me. Even Andy Schleck shows himself more than VDB2.