tours 99 to 05

[fatterboy]

If it comes out that Lance did dope and with the guys who finished with him on the podium on most of those tours ,basso and jan with a couple of others who have either had been caught or proven they had doped. Who do you think would be the first clean rider and do you think he should get the jersey and the ones who were ahead of him should be striped of there placings.
mayby the guy who finished last or did every rider doped then?

Then you got to look at stage placings and other jerseys and prize money

What A mess

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

There is a good list here

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/ftopic4128-0.php

1999

1 - Casero
2 - Olano
3 - Nardello

2000

1 - Nardello
2 - Conti
3 - Kurt Van de Wouwer

2001

1 - Kivilev
2 - Simon
3 - Chaureau

2002

1 Sastre
2 Moncoutie
3 Lelli

2003

1 Zubeldia
2 Sastre
3 Lelli

2004

1 Sastre
2 Karpets
3 Casar

2005

1 Evans
2 Zubeldia
3 Sastre

 

[jobiwan]

There is a good list here

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/ftopic4128-0.php

2005

1 Evans
2 Zubeldia
3 Sastre

Someone tell ACF!!!

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Grim reading...

2005

1 Lance Armstrong
2 Ivan Basso
3 Jan Ullrich
4 Francisco Mancebo
5 Alexandre Vinokourov
6 Levi Leipheimer
7 Michael Rasmussen
8 Cadel Evans
9 Floyd Landis
10 Oscar Pereiro Sio
11 Christophe Moreau
12 Yaroslav Popovych
13 Eddy Mazzoleni
14 George Hincapie
15 Haimar Zubeldia
16 Jörg Jaksche (Ger)
17 Bobby Julich (USA)
18 Oscar Sevilla (Spa)
19 Andrei Kashechkin (Kaz)
20 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita)
21 Carlos Sastre (Spa)

 

[hrotha]

For what it's worth, Casero was a Fuentes client and Olano was a Ferrari client.

 

[Frosty]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/346046/tour-de-france-1999-2008.html

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Not wishing to seem rude that article is the biggest pile of Armstrong apologist ******** ever.

For what it's worth, Casero was a Fuentes client and Olano was a Ferrari client.

Cheers. Will have to go and update the lists again - which gives us:

1. Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal 91.32.16
2. Alex Zülle (Swi) Banesto 7.37
3. Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 10.26
4. Laurent Dufaux (Swi) Saeco-Cannondale 14.43
5. Angel Casero (Spa) Vitalicio Seguros 15.11
6. Abraham Olano (Spa) ONCE-Deutsche Bank 16.47
7. Daniele Nardello (Ita) Mapei-Quick Step 17.02
8. Richard Virenque (Fra) Team Polti 17.28
9. Wladimir Belli (Ita) Festina 17.37
10. Andrea Peron (Ita) ONCE-Deutsche Bank 23.10
11. Kurt Van de Wouwer (Bel) Lotto-Mobistar 23.32
12. David Etxebarria (Spa) ONCE-Deutsche Bank 26.41
13. Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal 26.53
14. Stéphane Heulot (Fra) La Française des Jeux 27.58

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

For what it's worth, Casero was a Fuentes client and Olano was a Ferrari client.

Cheers. Will have to go and update the lists again

 

[Frosty]

Not wishing to seem rude that article is the biggest pile of Armstrong apologist ******** ever.

Be rude if u want to

I dont think it is the biggest pile of apologist stuff ever, bearing in mind it was produced in 2008 then i think you will find that some media outlets would not even have placed an asterisk next to his name

At the least it shows how taking a charitable view still rules out a lot of top 10ers.

 

[zlev11]

Etxebarria was a Fuentes client too

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be an attack on you. I saw the article when it first came out and it ****ed me off because it seemed to be part of the whole 'everyone was doping so Armstrong wasn't that bad' line.

 

[Benotti69]

were Mapei clean in '99 ?

 

[Frosty]

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be an attack on you. I saw the article when it first came out and it ****ed me off because it seemed to be part of the whole 'everyone was doping so Armstrong wasn't that bad' line.

No worries, didnt take it as an attack on me.

 

[Cloxxki]

Riders should step forward, offering themselves as candidate for winner of the GrandTours they finished in. Some clean ones possibly lost out due to the time limit rule, while no clean rider finished ahead of them.
Anyway, the candidate would offer their career up for scrutiny. The best placed candidate, will get the honorary title. It will be offically wiki'd, of course.
No way Ekimov is going to hold his hand up for Tyler's medal. Maybe Rich of Cancellara will dare to?
Don't expect to be handed a medal or title if you're not ready to claim it, and allow to be scrutinized. And don't feel hurt when you don't pass whichever cleanliness rules put in place to qualify.

WANTED - One clean finisher.

 

[pmcg76]

There is a good list here

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/ftopic4128-0.php

1999

1 - Casero
2 - Olano
3 - Nardello

2000

1 - Nardello
2 - Conti
3 - Kurt Van de Wouwer

2001

1 - Kivilev
2 - Simon
3 - Chaureau

2002

1 Sastre
2 Moncoutie
3 Lelli

2003

1 Zubeldia
2 Sastre
3 Lelli

2004

1 Sastre
2 Karpets
3 Casar

2005

1 Evans
2 Zubeldia
3 Sastre

Wasnt Nardello one of the guys who abused Simeoni on that stage in 2004 along with Pozzatto although I think he later apologised.

Lelli was the guy who introduced David Millar to EPO so scratch him of the list.

Kivilev (R.I.P), didnt a former manager or soigneur say that Kivilev did whatever was necessary back in the early 00s.

 

[GotDropped]

Riders should step forward, offering themselves as candidate for winner of the GrandTours they finished in. Some clean ones possibly lost out due to the time limit rule, while no clean rider finished ahead of them.
Anyway, the candidate would offer their career up for scrutiny. The best placed candidate, will get the honorary title. It will be offically wiki'd, of course.
No way Ekimov is going to hold his hand up for Tyler's medal. Maybe Rich of Cancellara will dare to?
Don't expect to be handed a medal or title if you're not ready to claim it, and allow to be scrutinized. And don't feel hurt when you don't pass whichever cleanliness rules put in place to qualify.

WANTED - One clean finisher.

That sir, is a brilliant idea. Plus retrospective testing of ALL frozen samples. One positive, and you lose all your current titles.

 

[PCutter]

Someone tell ACF!!!

2007......two time winner

 

[laziali]

2004

1 Sastre
2 Karpets
3 Casar

Scrub Karpets too - massive doper and has just been caught out in the latest Italian sting with the dodgy chemist and just about all of katusha's Ruskis

 

[caça-foice]

owww carlos sastre 3 tdf champion.... if there is no doper he will be a lot more rich today....

 

[Frosty]

Fastest time up Alpe d'huez? This is not an exhaustive list, ie people who came 8th on a stage arent included.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d'Huez

 

[gregod]

That sir, is a brilliant idea. Plus retrospective testing of ALL frozen samples. One positive, and you lose all your current titles.

I have always thought, more than suspension, losing all past results plus prize money for a positive would be a better disinsentive to dope than anything being done now.

 

[ChrisE]

Etxebarria was a Fuentes client too

lol I forgot about this guy. I heard or read somewhere his nickname in the peloton was "extra barrier" due to his poor handling skill.

 

[Polish]

There is a good list here

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/ftopic4128-0.php

1999

1 - Casero
2 - Olano
3 - Nardello

2000

1 - Nardello
2 - Conti
3 - Kurt Van de Wouwer

2001

1 - Kivilev
2 - Simon
3 - Chaureau

2002

1 Sastre
2 Moncoutie
3 Lelli

2003

1 Zubeldia
2 Sastre
3 Lelli

2004

1 Sastre
2 Karpets
3 Casar

2005

1 Evans
2 Zubeldia
3 Sastre

I'm sorry, and I know I'm going straight to hell for saying this,
but thank god for dope. I hope Conner has me on ignore...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Lelli was the guy who introduced David Millar to EPO so scratch him of the list.

Kivilev (R.I.P), didn't a former manager or soigneur say that Kivilev did whatever was necessary back in the early 00s.

Kivilev and Simon were two of the guys in that absurd 20min plus break that Lance whittled away at over two weeks. Though that doesn't mean either was clean, it just goes to show you that a 20 minute lead wasn't enough for some talented riders.

The answer to the OP is of course "no winner". Just like TH's vacated gold medal, once this is over the years 1999-2005 should simply be listed as "no winner", same with 2006 (and probably 2010 as well). This way some 50-100 years from now people will look back with a grim reminder just how rotten to the core the sport was during this time.

 

[D-Queued]

Kivilev and Simon were two of the guys in that absurd 20min plus break that Lance whittled away at over two weeks. Though that doesn't mean either was clean, it just goes to show you that a 20 minute lead wasn't enough for some talented riders.

The answer to the OP is of course "no winner". Just like TH's vacated gold medal, once this is over the years 1999-2005 should simply be listed as "no winner", same with 2006 (and probably 2010 as well). This way some 50-100 years from now people will look back with a grim reminder just how rotten to the core the sport was during this time.

These years are just like the War years. No winner then, either.

Dave.