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Mar 6, 2011
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Koronin said:
Alex47 said:

Interesting. Although of all the Pro Conti teams they are the one that would make the most sense as they race a lot of WT races.
He will lead any race he wants and is invited to as well. With theoretically a strong team for the pro conti level behind him. I always worry how productive Vivani will be without that train leading him
 
Midnightfright said:
Koronin said:
Alex47 said:

Interesting. Although of all the Pro Conti teams they are the one that would make the most sense as they race a lot of WT races.
He will lead any race he wants and is invited to as well. With theoretically a strong team for the pro conti level behind him. I always worry how productive Vivani will be without that train leading him
I think he'll stop winning big races, already at the Giro without Quick Step A train he looked again the second tier sprinter he was until 2017, riders like Morkov and Richeze win races for the sprinter, with Richeze even Modolo (that now looks like a third tier sprinter) was able to win GT stages...
 
Nirvana said:
Midnightfright said:
Koronin said:
Alex47 said:

Interesting. Although of all the Pro Conti teams they are the one that would make the most sense as they race a lot of WT races.
He will lead any race he wants and is invited to as well. With theoretically a strong team for the pro conti level behind him. I always worry how productive Vivani will be without that train leading him
I think he'll stop winning big races, already at the Giro without Quick Step A train he looked again the second tier sprinter he was until 2017, riders like Morkov and Richeze win races for the sprinter, with Richeze even Modolo (that now looks like a third tier sprinter) was able to win GT stages...
That's a bit harsh on Viviani IMHO. While he certainly never was the top sprinter people made of him after the 2018 Giro d'Italia, he certainly improved into good one at the end of his Sky time already. With Cofidis he probably won't race the Giro as the last time they did it was with Moncoutie in 2010. But Viviani knows where his level is and signs for Cofidis regardless, he wins a bunch of decent races with them.

Not too many rocket sprinters like Cipo, Alejet & Kittel in their prime around right now. Basically it's only Groenenwegen. The rest is very good. But just not that rocket level like the ones named above. That's something a guy like Viviani clearly benefits from as well.
 
Mar 6, 2011
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staubsauger said:
Nirvana said:
Midnightfright said:
Koronin said:
Alex47 said:

Interesting. Although of all the Pro Conti teams they are the one that would make the most sense as they race a lot of WT races.
He will lead any race he wants and is invited to as well. With theoretically a strong team for the pro conti level behind him. I always worry how productive Vivani will be without that train leading him
I think he'll stop winning big races, already at the Giro without Quick Step A train he looked again the second tier sprinter he was until 2017, riders like Morkov and Richeze win races for the sprinter, with Richeze even Modolo (that now looks like a third tier sprinter) was able to win GT stages...
That's a bit harsh on Viviani IMHO. While he certainly never was the top sprinter people made of him after the 2018 Giro d'Italia, he certainly improved into good one at the end of his Sky time already. With Cofidis he probably won't race the Giro as the last time they did it was with Moncoutie in 2010. But Viviani knows where his level is and signs for Cofidis regardless, he wins a bunch of decent races with them.

Not too many rocket sprinters like Cipo, Alejet & Kittel in their prime around right now. Basically it's only Groenenwegen. The rest is very good. But just not that rocket level like the ones named above. That's something a guy like Viviani clearly benefits from as well.
Even then Dylan is probably a step below the 3 you mentioned. It does make sprinting finishes more interesting without someone who is comfortably quicker than the rest
 
Koronin said:
Alex47 said:

Interesting. Although of all the Pro Conti teams they are the one that would make the most sense as they race a lot of WT races.
That would certainly make Cofidis a WT team next year, so Viviani would still get to ride all the races he wanted.

Also, where Viviani goes, Sabatini and Morkov go, so the train would still be there :)
 
Re:

jaylew said:
I think Movistar has made a strategic decision.

They saw the "Sky tactics" in GTs, with 2 riders able to shoot for the podium, was the way forward in future GTs, and they have been trying to get the same thing to work on their team, for the past 2 years.

They just didn't have the right captains for it, because they all hate each other (apart for newly minted captain Carapaz, who is most definitely a team player).

So the logical strategic decision is, to replace your captains with riders from the teams, where being a "team player" is commonplace these days, like DQ and Astana.

With Carapaz, Fuglsang and Mas, they get 3 captains that can all work together, and sacrifice for each other, without the constant infighting.
 
staubsauger said:
Nirvana said:
Midnightfright said:
Koronin said:
Alex47 said:

Interesting. Although of all the Pro Conti teams they are the one that would make the most sense as they race a lot of WT races.
He will lead any race he wants and is invited to as well. With theoretically a strong team for the pro conti level behind him. I always worry how productive Vivani will be without that train leading him
I think he'll stop winning big races, already at the Giro without Quick Step A train he looked again the second tier sprinter he was until 2017, riders like Morkov and Richeze win races for the sprinter, with Richeze even Modolo (that now looks like a third tier sprinter) was able to win GT stages...
That's a bit harsh on Viviani IMHO. While he certainly never was the top sprinter people made of him after the 2018 Giro d'Italia, he certainly improved into good one at the end of his Sky time already. With Cofidis he probably won't race the Giro as the last time they did it was with Moncoutie in 2010. But Viviani knows where his level is and signs for Cofidis regardless, he wins a bunch of decent races with them.

Not too many rocket sprinters like Cipo, Alejet & Kittel in their prime around right now. Basically it's only Groenenwegen. The rest is very good. But just not that rocket level like the ones named above. That's something a guy like Viviani clearly benefits from as well.
He improved, but in endurance and climbing not in sprinting, because he gave up on track after Rio but next year he'll focus again on the track for Tokyo and probably he'll return the one that in the 2016 Giro was dropped in the passage through Assisi just after the start and finished OTL almost 40 minutes behind the gruppetto.
His sprint seems improved only thanks to the Quick Step train that delivers him, you can put every second tier sprinter behind Morkov and Richeze and will win a lot, even a far superior sprinter like Gaviria is delivering less now that he doesn't have the Quick Step train and needs Kristoff as leadout. I'm pretty sure that at the Tour with Morkov and Richeze launching him we'll see him winning again.

Anyway i don't know if he's really going to leave, in his declarations after the Giro reported on Cyclingpro that i mentioned some days ago in his thred he seemed certain to stay where he is but maybe is only PR and wants to go where he can earn more even if he'll be the only one to loose on the sporting side. Some think that there is a curse or something obscure on who leave Quick Step but IMHO is only the fact that is a perfect machine with the best in some roles (including also management and the DS) that enable every random rider that enters in that oiled mechanism to deliver well beyond his limit, somthing that is impossible to replicate after leaving.
 
Re: Re:

Broccolidwarf said:
jaylew said:
I think Movistar has made a strategic decision.

They saw the "Sky tactics" in GTs, with 2 riders able to shoot for the podium, was the way forward in future GTs, and they have been trying to get the same thing to work on their team, for the past 2 years.

They just didn't have the right captains for it, because they all hate each other (apart for newly minted captain Carapaz, who is most definitely a team player).

So the logical strategic decision is, to replace your captains with riders from the teams, where being a "team player" is commonplace these days, like DQ and Astana.

With Carapaz, Fuglsang and Mas, they get 3 captains that can all work together, and sacrifice for each other, without the constant infighting.
Who hates who? :eek:
Valverde rode numerous times in service of his teammates, and he's genuinely known as a guy everybody likes. Landa, well you saw how he rode for Carapaz last month, if that's not a team player ride than I don't know what is.
Only weak link is Quintana imo. He always whines about being a sole leader, while in the last couple of years he certainly doesn't deserves that status. And the best thing for Movistar would be to get rid of him this year.
 
Nirvana said:
His sprint seems improved only thanks to the Quick Step train that delivers him, you can put every second tier sprinter behind Morkov and Richeze and will win a lot, even a far superior sprinter like Gaviria is delivering less now that he doesn't have the Quick Step train and needs Kristoff as leadout. I'm pretty sure that at the Tour with Morkov and Richeze launching him we'll see him winning again.
Usually Quickstep doesn't set up a long train for Viviani though, they just shoot him to the front with 500m to go, and that's it.

In my opinion, he has really learned a lot during those years at Sky in terms of positioning himself without any help, and is not as dependent on Richeze as Gaviria or Modolo was.
 
Today with Lampaert and Morkov launching him he suddenly looked like a different rider comparing to the Giro, it's not a coincidence. And with Richeze missing there was Asgren stepping up as additional wagon very well. At the Tour with Richeze, Morkov, Lampaert and Gilbert they are going to serve wins to him on a silver plate, and there is even Alaphilippe that can be used as well if needed.
 
Re: Re:

Broccolidwarf said:
jaylew said:
I think Movistar has made a strategic decision.

They saw the "Sky tactics" in GTs, with 2 riders able to shoot for the podium, was the way forward in future GTs, and they have been trying to get the same thing to work on their team, for the past 2 years.

They just didn't have the right captains for it, because they all hate each other (apart for newly minted captain Carapaz, who is most definitely a team player).

So the logical strategic decision is, to replace your captains with riders from the teams, where being a "team player" is commonplace these days, like DQ and Astana.

With Carapaz, Fuglsang and Mas, they get 3 captains that can all work together, and sacrifice for each other, without the constant infighting.

Wait, what?
Valverde is well known for getting along with virtually everyone and he's helped his teammates at different times. Including the Tour last summer which Landa said after a stage that the only reason he didn't lose more time was because Valverde waiting for him and guided him to the finish of the stage. Landa gets a bad rep but showed at the Giro this year and the Ardennes last year that his is willing to work for teammates. It just seems his requirement to work for someone else is that he actually gets along with that person and he gets along with both Carapaz and Valverde.
Quintana is where the problem is. He wants everyone to work for him and him alone. He hasn't given results over the past two years to really show that he deserves it.
 
Re: Re:

Koronin said:
Broccolidwarf said:
jaylew said:
I think Movistar has made a strategic decision.

They saw the "Sky tactics" in GTs, with 2 riders able to shoot for the podium, was the way forward in future GTs, and they have been trying to get the same thing to work on their team, for the past 2 years.

They just didn't have the right captains for it, because they all hate each other (apart for newly minted captain Carapaz, who is most definitely a team player).

So the logical strategic decision is, to replace your captains with riders from the teams, where being a "team player" is commonplace these days, like DQ and Astana.

With Carapaz, Fuglsang and Mas, they get 3 captains that can all work together, and sacrifice for each other, without the constant infighting.

Wait, what?
Valverde is well known for getting along with virtually everyone and he's helped his teammates at different times. Including the Tour last summer which Landa said after a stage that the only reason he didn't lose more time was because Valverde waiting for him and guided him to the finish of the stage. Landa gets a bad rep but showed at the Giro this year and the Ardennes last year that his is willing to work for teammates. It just seems his requirement to work for someone else is that he actually gets along with that person and he gets along with both Carapaz and Valverde.
Quintana is where the problem is. He wants everyone to work for him and him alone. He hasn't given results over the past two years to really show that he deserves it.
Yeah, might have been a bit unfair on Valverde, but he is too old to be a GT captain anyway ;)
 
Re: Re:

Broccolidwarf said:
Koronin said:
Broccolidwarf said:
jaylew said:
I think Movistar has made a strategic decision.

They saw the "Sky tactics" in GTs, with 2 riders able to shoot for the podium, was the way forward in future GTs, and they have been trying to get the same thing to work on their team, for the past 2 years.

They just didn't have the right captains for it, because they all hate each other (apart for newly minted captain Carapaz, who is most definitely a team player).

So the logical strategic decision is, to replace your captains with riders from the teams, where being a "team player" is commonplace these days, like DQ and Astana.

With Carapaz, Fuglsang and Mas, they get 3 captains that can all work together, and sacrifice for each other, without the constant infighting.

Wait, what?
Valverde is well known for getting along with virtually everyone and he's helped his teammates at different times. Including the Tour last summer which Landa said after a stage that the only reason he didn't lose more time was because Valverde waiting for him and guided him to the finish of the stage. Landa gets a bad rep but showed at the Giro this year and the Ardennes last year that his is willing to work for teammates. It just seems his requirement to work for someone else is that he actually gets along with that person and he gets along with both Carapaz and Valverde.
Quintana is where the problem is. He wants everyone to work for him and him alone. He hasn't given results over the past two years to really show that he deserves it.
Yeah, might have been a bit unfair on Valverde, but he is too old to be a GT captain anyway ;)

He still wants another short (or a few more shots) at another Vuelta title, but has said he's done chasing the Tour. However, from other comments it sounds like he wants to do some stage hunting, so we'll see what happens. However, as the young riders on the team have said, his experience is invaluable to them.
 
Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad is reporting (as fact) that Benoot will leave Lotto Soudal.

Lotto can't and won't compete with offers from Ineos and Sunweb. Though the complete list of interested teams is:
AG2R-La Mondiale, Movistar, Cofidis, Sunweb & Ineos
I'm pretty curious how a young Belgian talent will fare away from Lotto after growing with them. Too many have stayed too long in the past when they stopped improving instead of trying something new. Benoot looked like he was going down that same path.
 
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