The tt course the route organisers made these riders go out on is a bloody disgrace. Surely the organisers have duty of care to not make the course so dangerous. So many riders crashed. I don't think i would ride my bike on that Course.
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TT course around Montpellier a disgrace
- Thread starter auscyclefan94
- Start date
auscyclefan94 said:
Buddy, all the teams had to face the same conditions. Just cause Evans basically lost the tour today, you can't blame the organisers for choosing a testing course, but rather his team for making craptacular transfers off season
I make no exscuses for Menchov. He is out of the running for top honours cause his ITT and his teams performance today sucked.
I disagree. It's the teams fault for having underestimated the diffculty of this course. If you have the money, like RAB and SIL, you go out an recon the course months in advance and ride it so often, as if it's the stage that can win/lose you the tour (which it was). They obviously didn't do that, because they underestimated this particular TTT. That's what's wrong with it. I think even CTT pre rode the course a couple of times...
Can't really blame BB and Skil, for they are not loaded with money.
Can't really blame BB and Skil, for they are not loaded with money.
Oh please stop complaining it's called a technical course, the reason why cadel lost time is because his team sucks simply put, he is not out of it but he is on the chopping block good job astana nice try everybody else.
Having seen many TTTs, I think they should be excluded from GTs completely, its day 4 of the Tour and already its down to maybe a handful of contenders, mostly on one team thanks to the TTT. At the end of the Tour, GC is individual, yes a strong team should play a role but it should be about the individual riders and tactics. Mechov, Evans, Sastre and other darkhorses have been eliminated as potential winners because they have weaker teams/ accidents and if you want to see an exciting race, thats sad.
The TTT awards superstrong teams with the biggest budgets. It reminds me of football where success is based on the teams with the most money. Wouldnt this race be far more exciting if Contador, Armstrong, Leipheimer, Kloeden were on different teams. People are saying this is an exciting event, really?, Cancellara winning TT, Cavendish winning sprints and Astana dominating GC, I bet nobody saw those things happening!!! Boring. As Alpe says, roll on the Vuelta.
In case people suggest I dont watch the Tour, I aint, just following the results, I have seen over 20 Tours already so can afford to miss one year, I prefer to get out on my bike when the race is on this year.
The TTT awards superstrong teams with the biggest budgets. It reminds me of football where success is based on the teams with the most money. Wouldnt this race be far more exciting if Contador, Armstrong, Leipheimer, Kloeden were on different teams. People are saying this is an exciting event, really?, Cancellara winning TT, Cavendish winning sprints and Astana dominating GC, I bet nobody saw those things happening!!! Boring. As Alpe says, roll on the Vuelta.
In case people suggest I dont watch the Tour, I aint, just following the results, I have seen over 20 Tours already so can afford to miss one year, I prefer to get out on my bike when the race is on this year.
You have to relax. The tour is 3 weeks long. Still anything can happen. Besides, Cadel never has had a decent team for the Tour. What is he going to do? maybe change teams in the off-season.auscyclefan94 said:
auscyclefan94 said:
Oh it was technical, so what. It wasn't the course that caused Cadel to lose so much time it's because his team sucks. The riders are pros they need to stop whining too, and HTFU as Sean Kelly stated in the Giro
A possible solution???
I would agree that it's sad that the TTT can have such a major effect on individual standings and offer up a possible remedy to minimize the damages. Cut the time deficit in half. Round up a half second if necessary. You heard it here first.
Riders will still be wanting to go as absolutely fast as possible, but the penalty won't be nearly as severe for those riders with the weaker teams. If this were the case, Lance would be 20 seconds back at the moment because Cancellara would have only lost 20 seconds to Astana and not 40. Cadel Evans, currently at 2:59 would be at 1:41 back with only half the deficit of 2:36 that Silence Lotto trailed Astana. We would then have a much more exciting tour. Not that this one won't be anyway, but it looks like it could end up being an all Astana show. C'est la vie.
I would agree that it's sad that the TTT can have such a major effect on individual standings and offer up a possible remedy to minimize the damages. Cut the time deficit in half. Round up a half second if necessary. You heard it here first.
Riders will still be wanting to go as absolutely fast as possible, but the penalty won't be nearly as severe for those riders with the weaker teams. If this were the case, Lance would be 20 seconds back at the moment because Cancellara would have only lost 20 seconds to Astana and not 40. Cadel Evans, currently at 2:59 would be at 1:41 back with only half the deficit of 2:36 that Silence Lotto trailed Astana. We would then have a much more exciting tour. Not that this one won't be anyway, but it looks like it could end up being an all Astana show. C'est la vie.
auscyclefan94 said:
Agreed in full.
All the poohpoohing fans.. when did you ever see so many crashes? Does this make it "more exciting"? It's the same as with the stage in the Giro.. why do we fans applaud a course like that when it can be easily avoided?
I for one hope that oranizers come to their sense and stop using avoidable and unnecessary dangers.
And before someone cries "PARIS ROUBAIX!!!!"... Paris Roubaix is something different than a stage race with different contenders. Also in Paris Roubaix the cobbles, the risks are the essence. In a stage race it's the strife between riders, not the dangers that are the essence.
Cycling truly is in many ways a backward sport. The riders are still being treated by the organisation as fodder.
TTT Course
This course was advertised as a technical course. The map of the course was up for months. The teams that cared inspected the course multiple times.
The heavy crosswinds added to the excitement.
Two of the four crashes I saw, happened in straight sections and were caused by fatigue/rider error.
Menchov seems to have difficulty riding a TT bike whether the road is straight or turns.
The leader of the BBox team took the corner too hot and 3 of his teammates followed him. The corner had good visibility but if the lead guy takes you off course, you're going to lose a few guys.
Please don't ask for more boring straight courses that go down the highways.
For road or TT courses. Part of winning any bike race is you have to be able to handle your machine.
This course was advertised as a technical course. The map of the course was up for months. The teams that cared inspected the course multiple times.
The heavy crosswinds added to the excitement.
Two of the four crashes I saw, happened in straight sections and were caused by fatigue/rider error.
Menchov seems to have difficulty riding a TT bike whether the road is straight or turns.
The leader of the BBox team took the corner too hot and 3 of his teammates followed him. The corner had good visibility but if the lead guy takes you off course, you're going to lose a few guys.
Please don't ask for more boring straight courses that go down the highways.
For road or TT courses. Part of winning any bike race is you have to be able to handle your machine.
there is a balancing act between creating a challenge to bike handling prowess and maintaining athlete safety. the course today pushes the boundary of safety a bit and i have an issue with how narrow some of the roads were but it is not why anyone will win or lose this tour.
they have created 30 sec intervals for team placing in the TTT before, ie first place = 0 sec, 2nd place = +30 secs, 3rd = + 1 min, etc...so adjusting time and limiting penalties is not a new idea and is something we are likely to see in future TTT's
...or maybe cadel could ride for astana, i hear they need another team leader!
they have created 30 sec intervals for team placing in the TTT before, ie first place = 0 sec, 2nd place = +30 secs, 3rd = + 1 min, etc...so adjusting time and limiting penalties is not a new idea and is something we are likely to see in future TTT's
...or maybe cadel could ride for astana, i hear they need another team leader!
For what it's worth, the RAI commentators called the parcourse "not even worthy of an amateur race". Not sure I share that opinion, but it sucks to see guys go home with injuries.
Yes, it was a tricky course. Yes, some of the road surfaces were pretty poor. I'd just like to point out that (as far as I'm aware) none of the riders of the last three or four teams to start actually crashed. There was no 'inevitability' of crashing.
As for this TTT having ruined or spoiled the spectacle - should the organizers have waited to decide whether or not to have one based on the strength of one of the teams (as this has 'spoiled' the race, according to some)?
Sure, if the top Astana riders were spread amongst different teams there would have been more spectacle or competition but hey, it is what it is, and I saw some pretty exciting stuff today (Astana, Spartacus, five Garmins).
As for this TTT having ruined or spoiled the spectacle - should the organizers have waited to decide whether or not to have one based on the strength of one of the teams (as this has 'spoiled' the race, according to some)?
Sure, if the top Astana riders were spread amongst different teams there would have been more spectacle or competition but hey, it is what it is, and I saw some pretty exciting stuff today (Astana, Spartacus, five Garmins).
Yeah i'm with you amsterhammer. Canc deserves as many days in yellow as he gets, just an unbeleivable job of hauling his teamates along at the end there. And wehther you love him or hate him or somewhere in between LA had an unreal ride today.
That said, the course I dont think was really a factor. Would the results have been any different on a less technical course? Look back at the TTT's in the past, TT's too for that matter there are always crashes. Most of that is the bikes in the TT and the nature of the beast in the TTT. It really is a team endeavor and I for one enjoy it, and also think that its best to have it short and early if you are going to have it...
Oh and Garmin had a sick ride too. Basically four guys killing it with one guy hanging on by sheer will. And dont forget Liqui and Caisse who had great rides too. If they had GC guys we'd be talking about how close everything is.
As to Cadel, man he should have found another team four years ago. If Sastre was smart he would have stuck with Barney and wouldnt be considered out of the running.
So, IMO its not the course that made the differences today.
That said, the course I dont think was really a factor. Would the results have been any different on a less technical course? Look back at the TTT's in the past, TT's too for that matter there are always crashes. Most of that is the bikes in the TT and the nature of the beast in the TTT. It really is a team endeavor and I for one enjoy it, and also think that its best to have it short and early if you are going to have it...
Oh and Garmin had a sick ride too. Basically four guys killing it with one guy hanging on by sheer will. And dont forget Liqui and Caisse who had great rides too. If they had GC guys we'd be talking about how close everything is.
As to Cadel, man he should have found another team four years ago. If Sastre was smart he would have stuck with Barney and wouldnt be considered out of the running.
So, IMO its not the course that made the differences today.
Amsterhammer said:
I also saw more crashes than I ever seen before in a TTT and someone gone to a hospital. Surely a coincidence that so many people (pro's who can outsteer any of us) crashed of course, surely a coincidence that more than one reporter crew called the course a disgrace
Dang all the crashes... it makes it just that much more exciting!!!
We could also reintroduce frame pumps so sprinters can spank each other again, that would also be exciting.
Or how about we let cars parked on the side so we can see how many people go into the hospital... oh wait they tried that already this year.
I think it is a she, in any case, stop the whining and HTFU!Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
Sounds like a she, who could be more vexing than a Cadel fanboi. Two whiners, peas in a pod.
First post here, and probably a slightly contentious one.
In rallying if a driver crashes do they blame the course of the fact the driver was going to quick? It's the same in any motorsport. In Mountain biking (my cycling routes) do they blame a course for being dangerous? No they blame either bad luck or over riding.
Why is this TTT any different? If a corner is tight and you've been told by your DS that people have crashed on X corner should you back off? Probably. Did they back off? Probably not.
The good stay on, the bad fall off. Simple really.
In rallying if a driver crashes do they blame the course of the fact the driver was going to quick? It's the same in any motorsport. In Mountain biking (my cycling routes) do they blame a course for being dangerous? No they blame either bad luck or over riding.
Why is this TTT any different? If a corner is tight and you've been told by your DS that people have crashed on X corner should you back off? Probably. Did they back off? Probably not.
The good stay on, the bad fall off. Simple really.
Well i wouldn't call it a disgrace but very disappointing from a fans perspective.I wanted to see a battle between the top riders where every second won in a direct man to man fight matters.Now with Evans and other riders so much back, this kind of thrill is definietly damped.
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