Turtur and LA

[Archibald]

"If you're saying to me: 'are you sorry that we had Lance Armstrong at the race?' absolutely not," Turtur said "Why would we be?
"The allegations that are against him [Armstrong] at the moment are made by two people in particular who I believe have no credibility whatsoever... I don't believe anything that Hamilton or Landis says. They can't be believed; they can't be listened to because of what they've done in the past. Until such time as there's 100 percent clear, factual evidence to indicate clearly that there's an issue then I'll listen to that."

The Tour Down Under is partially funded by the South Australian Government. Race staff have long acknowledged that Armstrong has been paid a fee, believed to be up to $3 million per year to attend the Australian WorldTour event, however the exact figure is deemed "commercially in confidence" by the South Australian Government.

Premier Rann released a statement praising the Texan, following the "60 Minutes" report going to air without referring to it directly.

"Lance Armstrong's involvement in the Tour Down Under has helped launch the race on to the world stage," he said.

"We saw a massive increase in attendances, economic benefit and world wide media coverage of the event as a result of Lance's participation.
"We have always found Lance Armstrong to be a good friend to SA [South Australia] and we have always found him to be extraordinarily honourable in all our dealings with him."

foot in mouth for going beyond the bold?
seriously, why not just leave it at the bold?
why add the rest of it to his answer? surely considering his background we wouldn't be so blind as to believe the rest. or is there some way that the LA crew could harm his event if he didn't appear to back LA up?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-regrets-from-tour-down-under-boss-over-armstrong

 

[Ferminal]

It's the usual mouthpiece stuff, Turtur is one of the few remaining allies who is willing to speak out with the Fabiani-esque rhetoric. Hopefully he falls along with Pat etc if that ever happens.

I like how he focuses on "allegations of two people" and not the multi-national investigation, really needed to drop a "question the use of taxpayers' money" which would be a lovely comment, given his event is bankrolled by taxpayers' money.

 

[Runitout]

It's the usual mouthpiece stuff, Turtur is one of the few remaining allies who is willing to speak out with the Fabiani-esque rhetoric. Hopefully he falls along with Pat etc if that ever happens.

I like how he focuses on "allegations of two people" and not the multi-national investigation, really needed to drop a "question the use of taxpayers' money" which would be a lovely comment, given his event is bankrolled by taxpayers' money.

Turtur is oldschool South Aust. cycling. He won't spit in the soup.

 

[hubbard]

he just forked out a lazy few mill to get him here...of course that will be his party line.

 

[leftover pie]

the aussie cycling industry/media are still yet to jump from the LA gravy train as far as i can see.

was watching cycling central on sunday and mike tomolaris had a chat with anthony tan about the lance armstrong issue.

mike asked the big questions "did lance dope, what does it mean?"

and then mike proceeded to say (well the general jist of it, i can't remember his words exactly) "well even if he did, he bought so much money and attention to the sport i think we can safely say most of us here today wouldn't be here without him"

ie "whatever he did it's ok because the business of cycling has never looked better"


i don't really like mike tomolaris all that much.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Archibald, please insert a link for that quoted material.

Thanks.

Susan

 

[thehog]

foot in mouth for going beyond the bold?
seriously, why not just leave it at the bold?
why add the rest of it to his answer? surely considering his background we wouldn't be so blind as to believe the rest. or is there some way that the LA crew could harm his event if he didn't appear to back LA up?

I find it a little sad to be honest. Aussies are generally no "bullsh1t" type of people. But often they get starstruck with international stars. Beggars belief why they'd even release a statement such as this. Say nothing rather than support the ideal of drug use wins races and its ok. Makes the TDU look rather stupid.

 

[JA.Tri]

Disappointed by the comments attributed to both Mikes.

M Turtur:
"...Until such time as there's 100 percent clear, factual evidence to indicate clearly that there's an issue then I'll listen to that."

I infer this to mean that: Mike Turtur will consider there is an issue worthy of investigation once there is PROOOF that LA doped!!!! Gee that's big of him. Of course Floyd and Tyler are bound to be lying because they are mean, vindictive poppy cutters*. And of course, what possible reason could LA for telling anything other than the unvarnished truth???

M Tomalaris indicates:
... (well the general jist of it, i can't remember his words exactly) "well even if he did, he bought so much money and attention to the sport I think we can safely say most of us here today wouldn't be here without him."

I infer this to be following the prospective Fabiani line/excuse:"...he has done so much good for Everybody that any minor wrongdoing should at least be forgiven, if not ignored or forgotten!"

*reference to tall poppy syndrome...whereby the plebs diminish the "great" by "cutting" them down to size (metaphorically).

 

[Archibald]

M Tomalaris indicates:
... (well the general jist of it, i can't remember his words exactly) "well even if he did, he bought so much money and attention to the sport I think we can safely say most of us here today wouldn't be here without him."

I infer this to be following the prospective Fabiani line/excuse:"...he has done so much good for Everybody that any minor wrongdoing should at least be forgiven, if not ignored or forgotten!"

Tomalaris is where he is through nothing to do with LA, although, none of us really sure how he is where he is...

 

[skippy]

SAME OLD , same old , gets BORIIIING !! Shamilton and Flandis knew my views on "dopers" and stopped talking to me in 2004 , not missed either but why Hiccupie didn't plead the fifth , beats me ! Not the sort of Guy to fold under pressure WAS my original thought !

From Giro to Passo Mendola where i have arranged a book for riders to leave condolences and comments in the Hotel Bar at the top of the climb !

Those wishing to donate to support "Paralympic Sport " contact your national Paralympic site . In the hours that i was there riding both sides of the climb , many came forward having donated to the Wouter Facebook site ! Italians ,Dutch , German and Austrians signed in .

TRying to get "Hill 108" on twitter as well as web so that people can broadcast the message . As we all ride we review so many things and dedicatng the ride to Wouter today was one of the current issues i contemplated .

Perhaps others will "adopt" a hill near them to motivate people to help worthy causes !

Passo Mendola is popular with Tours as well as the public and the side from Fondo is easier than from Appian , so if in the general area make the visit .

 

[Runitout]

In case you hadn't noticed, he couldn't plead the fifth. He is not a defendant. They had his balls in a vice.

As for your views on doping, given that you wanted Hincapie to stay schtum, I assume they are generally quite approving of the whole thing?

SAME OLD , same old , gets BORIIIING !! Shamilton and Flandis knew my views on "dopers" and stopped talking to me in 2004 , not missed either but why Hiccupie didn't plead the fifth , beats me ! Not the sort of Guy to fold under pressure WAS my original thought !

From Giro to Passo Mendola where i have arranged a book for riders to leave condolences and comments in the Hotel Bar at the top of the climb !

Those wishing to donate to support "Paralympic Sport " contact your national Paralympic site . In the hours that i was there riding both sides of the climb , many came forward having donated to the Wouter Facebook site ! Italians ,Dutch , German and Austrians signed in .

TRying to get "Hill 108" on twitter as well as web so that people can broadcast the message . As we all ride we review so many things and dedicatng the ride to Wouter today was one of the current issues i contemplated .

Perhaps others will "adopt" a hill near them to motivate people to help worthy causes !

Passo Mendola is popular with Tours as well as the public and the side from Fondo is easier than from Appian , so if in the general area make the visit .

 

[blackcat]

Turtur is oldschool South Aust. cycling. He won't spit in the soup.

cos he may have to use the soup in the icebaths that Charlie Walsh stews up

 

[MarkvW]

foot in mouth for going beyond the bold?
seriously, why not just leave it at the bold?
why add the rest of it to his answer? surely considering his background we wouldn't be so blind as to believe the rest. or is there some way that the LA crew could harm his event if he didn't appear to back LA up?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-regrets-from-tour-down-under-boss-over-armstrong

Armstrong is not just Armstrong. Armstrong is Nike, Nissan, Michelob, etc. I don't think you can evaluate Australia's decision until you take the impact of Armstrong's sponsors into account. If Armstrong, including his sponsors, brings money to Australia, then that's a rational reason why they would want him there. Maybe they're just idiots who love Armstrong and like to give him money (a possibility that can't be completely eliminated), but maybe the entire "Armstrong package" offers a net financial gain to Australia.

If you get Lance, you get more eyeballs watching more advertisements. That's what bike racing is all about. People love Lance.

 

[movingtarget]

I find it a little sad to be honest. Aussies are generally no "bullsh1t" type of people. But often they get starstruck with international stars. Beggars belief why they'd even release a statement such as this. Say nothing rather than support the ideal of drug use wins races and its ok. Makes the TDU look rather stupid.

Well if he says the opposite he makes himself and the organisers look even more stupid and runs the risk of losing future funding. Don't forget that tourism was part of the deal not just sport. It's all politics. You might be right about the way Aussies treat international stars. Many don't come regularly and when they do it's big news. Forget the Oprah crap. Most people I spoke to out here thought the whole thing was a joke.

 

[barn yard]

turtur won't be running the TDU next year so his comments are somewhat meaningless

 

[Martin318is]

Well if he says the opposite he makes himself and the organisers look even more stupid and runs the risk of losing future funding. Don't forget that tourism was part of the deal not just sport. It's all politics. You might be right about the way Aussies treat international stars. Many don't come regularly and when they do it's big news. Forget the Oprah crap. Most people I spoke to out here thought the whole thing was a joke.

Nobody really says that he needs to say the opposite. He just needs to shut up. If he had been asked about the 60minutes story and just said something like,

"Its terrible for all in cycling that this situation arises - regardless of the outcome. I can only say that bringing Armstrong to Adelaide for the TDU had a wonderful impact for the event and we are sure that the high standard of spectator turn out will be maintained going forward thanks in part to the media coverage we obtained."

he would maybe have got a bit of 'yeah right' from the average cycling fan, but crucially we wouldn't even be discussing it in this forum.

Instead, he has aligned himself quite strongly with the LA camp and the reality is that even if LA gets away with it all, people will remember which side Turtur was on and won't forgive him.

 

[movingtarget]

Nobody really says that he needs to say the opposite. He just needs to shut up. If he had been asked about the 60minutes story and just said something like,



he would maybe have got a bit of 'yeah right' from the average cycling fan, but crucially we wouldn't even be discussing it in this forum.

Instead, he has aligned himself quite strongly with the LA camp and the reality is that even if LA gets away with it all, people will remember which side Turtur was on and won't forgive him.

You mean "some people" within cycling won't forgive him. Joe Average won't care and it maybe be a horrible thought for most regular contributors to the Clinic but some people actually believe in Armstrong as some people believe that Palin would make a great president of the USA. Maybe Turtur actually does believe Armstrong's stance and it isn't politics at all. Who knows.

 

[Stingray34]

SAME OLD , same old , gets BORIIIING !! Shamilton and Flandis knew my views on "dopers" and stopped talking to me in 2004 , not missed either but why Hiccupie didn't plead the fifth , beats me ! Not the sort of Guy to fold under pressure WAS my original thought !

Not quite sure what you mean by 'same old, same old, gets boring!'

Is it the doping apologism or the general focus on it that's boring?

Not wanting to pre-empt your view at all, I would find it strange to find doping discussion boring at the same time as holding a negative view of dopers, or at least ones that got caught. I hope that's not your view.

You seem to equate Hincapie's reticence and his physical strength with staying quiet on the issue.

Don't you think by speaking out, Landis and Hamilton might be playing an important role in cleaning up the sport?

 

[skippy]

In 13 years of being around the tours in Europe i have come to meet people of all nationalities and positions within cycling .

Met Ray Godkin early on and Mike Turtur in Mendrisio environs and the "Mushroom Farm" has had plenty to say about both !

Racers have been my primary contact and Sunday in Milano i had the chance to catch up with many and according to the clinic squatters they are ALL tarred with the same brush .

Even at Athens and before i was advocating HARSH penalties for users and those views caused many to voice their opinion on Shamilton and others . With them he was a disaster looking for a place to happen , so was not surprised to see the news . What annoyed me was that the medal went back ONLY after a mudslinging event that resulted in money changing hands .

At an earlier Giro i was always there at the team pullman/van when Shamilton pulled in but at the Olympics he became evasive and some say "drugs" have this effect .

So i was about to post about "Disability not being a crime "when the previous comment appeared . By the by an ultrascan revealed that the blood clots in the right calf have now been dispersed or dissolved so i am looking at getting back to normal at the Dauphine which was a happy hunting ground for Hiccupie in previous years . Sad that he was weakminded enough to use but even worse that he has sunk to the level of "I was unable to compete so took the easy option" !

 

[Galic Ho]

I find it a little sad to be honest. Aussies are generally no "bullsh1t" type of people. But often they get starstruck with international stars. Beggars belief why they'd even release a statement such as this. Say nothing rather than support the ideal of drug use wins races and its ok. Makes the TDU look rather stupid.

One need only look at their affiliations and political ties. They are Labor and the Labor party is filled with lying, cheating, stealing scum. There is your answer. They are in it for the old "Jobs for the Boys." Nothing more. Aussies are no bullsh1t oriented people, problem is, these guys are the bullsh1t slingers who need to be called out.

Honestly, for the original quote, it was in a cyclingcentral article. I commented and was censored. That says enough to you. SBS and cycling viewing in Australia is a joke. Fun to go on their site though and get a rise out of all the gullible idiots there. This entire group of people have fed off the lies and PR of team LA. When he goes down, it will be interesting to see the political ramifications in South Australia. The opposition party next election will only need a nice audit into taxpayer spending on the TDU these last three years to see how much money was sent down the toilet to get LA to appear. I'm guessing a lot, better, people will care when a court nails LA.

Think of it this way. Marion Jones, Landis, etc, all the most profited dopers, the ones who won big, they are hated. Jones won on Aussie soil, hence hatred for her is great. Many casual fans who turned into the TDU will do a complete 180 turn when confronted with undeniable evidence. They will bay for blood and Rann and Turtur will be literally neck deep in ***. It's the chamois sniffers that you will never turn. Australia has a comparable percentage to the US of these types, majority are diehard Labor voters, the people to whom common sense and reality are disposable commodities, who every election still vote for the scum that stole, lied and drove their state into record debt. You can't get through to these people, they are mentally deranged. The SBS crew is mostly in this mold, so why bother? You don't, you line them up and rip them off, preferrably to their face. Oh and they believe in unbriddled censorship, meaning they are cowards. They will run for the hills when the press ask questions about Armstrong once Novitsky has torn him a new one.

 

[Galic Ho]

turtur won't be running the TDU next year so his comments are somewhat meaningless

That's good. Maybe the race will be worth watching.

 

[auscyclefan94]

the aussie cycling industry/media are still yet to jump from the LA gravy train as far as i can see.

was watching cycling central on sunday and mike tomolaris had a chat with anthony tan about the lance armstrong issue.

mike asked the big questions "did lance dope, what does it mean?"

and then mike proceeded to say (well the general jist of it, i can't remember his words exactly) "well even if he did, he bought so much money and attention to the sport i think we can safely say most of us here today wouldn't be here without him"

ie "whatever he did it's ok because the business of cycling has never looked better"


i don't really like mike tomolaris all that much.

+1. I record Cycling central so I can fast forward through parts that Anthony Tan, Dave McKenzie or Tomalaris are on unless it is about an interesting issue. Tan and Tomalaris are clueless.

 

[movingtarget]

+1. I record Cycling central so I can fast forward through parts that Anthony Tan, Dave McKenzie or Tomalaris are on unless it is about an interesting issue. Tan and Tomalaris are clueless.

McKenzie knows what he is talking about but he has to keep it simple enough for the other two to follow. Tomalaris has covered many TDF's now but I am still amazed at the naivety of some of his questions.

 

[skippy]

MovingTarget has made a comment about the "GREAT TOMMO" which leads me to wonder WHY the Aussie Public allow him to continue to swan around France for a month each year !

Luckily i do not have to suffer throughhis reports as i am there and in the past have watched the "input" so have wondered HOW he gets to be "mr Sbs" ? Surely it is time that someone like Mike Milton or Gatesy with "inside knowledge" takes centre stage ?

Sara Carrigan or Oenone Wood would be great for SBS and even Brido could do a better job if they were available .

French TV can work with anyone that speaks English but Cycling Knowledge is what the viewer is looking for , not imitators of DD or the P & P show !

Can see that people are reading about "Hill108" in road-general but would appreciate some feedback so as to get the message out to the rest of the Cycling Community !

 

[skippy]

WHY is it that every time i join a thread it comes to a screeching halt ?

Opened http://www.hill108project.blogspot.com for all to contribute OTHER language versions of the English INTRO so that it can be more inclusive !

Reading the moving tributes to Wouter today whilst it is grey & overcast outside . Particularly moving were those on Podium Cafe and to top it off was the Eddie M. interview which had me in pain as i was laughing so hard with tears on my face !

Still awaiting comments to add to the blog .

Tondo's accident leaves me with suspicions so would appreciate direction to the appropriate sites ! How could anyone park a car without it rolling immediately ?