Turtur and LA

[auscyclefan94]

McKenzie knows what he is talking about but he has to keep it simple enough for the other two to follow. Tomalaris has covered many TDF's now but I am still amazed at the naivety of some of his questions.

I'd have to disagree. His naive and narrow minded views on things justfies my contention that he is just another fanboy.

 

[skippy]

Good to see that someone in Oz is awake but who were you referring to ? Dave or tommo ?

 

[Runitout]

Good to see that someone in Oz is awake but who were you referring to ? Dave or tommo ?

You wonder why the thread comes to a halt when you post, but you post about everything but the topic. Turtur- not Hill 108, not Tomo being a nong, not eddy Merckx.

Maybe start a new thread?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Scott McGrory

"Let me get this straight. This Lance stuff is from 10 and 12yrs ago(2001 TDSwiss/1999 TDF) yes? Can we just move on! Livestrong = $450mil"


After listening to him in the giro coverage and now off his twitter page I am really coming to dislike this guy.

 

[unsheath]

MovingTarget has made a comment about the "GREAT TOMMO" which leads me to wonder WHY the Aussie Public allow him to continue to swan around France for a month each year !

Luckily i do not have to suffer throughhis reports as i am there and in the past have watched the "input" so have wondered HOW he gets to be "mr Sbs" ? Surely it is time that someone like Mike Milton or Gatesy with "inside knowledge" takes centre stage ?

Sara Carrigan or Oenone Wood would be great for SBS and even Brido could do a better job if they were available .

French TV can work with anyone that speaks English but Cycling Knowledge is what the viewer is looking for , not imitators of DD or the P & P show !

Can see that people are reading about "Hill108" in road-general but would appreciate some feedback so as to get the message out to the rest of the Cycling Community !

SBS is broadcasting's version of academic tenure. No matter how crap you are, you can't get fired. See Tomalaris and the increasingly spluttering Les Murray as prime examples.

 

[Archibald]

Armstrong is not just Armstrong. Armstrong is Nike, Nissan, Michelob, etc. I don't think you can evaluate Australia's decision until you take the impact of Armstrong's sponsors into account. If Armstrong, including his sponsors, brings money to Australia, then that's a rational reason why they would want him there. Maybe they're just idiots who love Armstrong and like to give him money (a possibility that can't be completely eliminated), but maybe the entire "Armstrong package" offers a net financial gain to Australia.

If you get Lance, you get more eyeballs watching more advertisements. That's what bike racing is all about. People love Lance.

but that's the point - why mention the allegations at all when you're questioned on why you paid what you paid as an appearance fee. Why not just leave it at the "because of the amount of $$$ that it brought in for the state", "it was a great move for the state's economy", "many benefits", etc... Absolutely no need to comment on the rest.
Just stupid to align yourself one way or the other when you don't need to.

One need only look at their affiliations and political ties. They are Labor and the Labor party is filled with lying, cheating, stealing scum. There is your answer. They are in it for the old "Jobs for the Boys." Nothing more. Aussies are no bullsh1t oriented people, problem is, these guys are the bullsh1t slingers who need to be called out.

Honestly, for the original quote, it was in a cyclingcentral article. I commented and was censored. That says enough to you. SBS and cycling viewing in Australia is a joke. Fun to go on their site though and get a rise out of all the gullible idiots there. This entire group of people have fed off the lies and PR of team LA. When he goes down, it will be interesting to see the political ramifications in South Australia. The opposition party next election will only need a nice audit into taxpayer spending on the TDU these last three years to see how much money was sent down the toilet to get LA to appear. I'm guessing a lot, better, people will care when a court nails LA.

Think of it this way. Marion Jones, Landis, etc, all the most profited dopers, the ones who won big, they are hated. Jones won on Aussie soil, hence hatred for her is great. Many casual fans who turned into the TDU will do a complete 180 turn when confronted with undeniable evidence. They will bay for blood and Rann and Turtur will be literally neck deep in ***. It's the chamois sniffers that you will never turn. Australia has a comparable percentage to the US of these types, majority are diehard Labor voters, the people to whom common sense and reality are disposable commodities, who every election still vote for the scum that stole, lied and drove their state into record debt. You can't get through to these people, they are mentally deranged. The SBS crew is mostly in this mold, so why bother? You don't, you line them up and rip them off, preferrably to their face. Oh and they believe in unbriddled censorship, meaning they are cowards. They will run for the hills when the press ask questions about Armstrong once Novitsky has torn him a new one.

great post

 

[Ferminal]

Scott McGrory

"Let me get this straight. This Lance stuff is from 10 and 12yrs ago(2001 TDSwiss/1999 TDF) yes? Can we just move on! Livestrong = $450mil"


After listening to him in the giro coverage and now off his twitter page I am really coming to dislike this guy.

No, we can't move on, because hacks like you couldn't force the issue as "journalists" back then. Now you complain about people doing a proper job? Admittedly McGrory has probably only been retired for 5 or so years (but I'm sure he had a great time riding for Gerolsteiner).

 

[Polish]

The Lance Effect

This case perfectly illustrates the crucial difference between spending taxpayer money wisely and wasting taxpayer money.

After all, taxpayer money is meant to be spent.
But it needs to be spent wisely.

Spending the $6+ million on Lance was a wise investment.
It paid off multiple times over. Documented. Lance Effect.

A waste of taxpayer money would have been spending $6+ million investigating the Hon. Sir Hubert Opperman's doping past. Stupid.

And not only Austalians benefited from Lance's attendance at the Tour Down Under - Americans did too. Win Win.

Not only did Lance earn enough to support many American Lawyers and their families, the US Gov reaped the benefits of Lance's taxes. High tax bracket Lance. Too bad the US Gov is wasting that money and then some investigating Lance. Sigh.

 

[auscyclefan94]

This case perfectly illustrates the crucial difference between spending taxpayer money wisely and wasting taxpayer money.

After all, taxpayer money is meant to be spent.
But it needs to be spent wisely.

Spending the $6+ million on Lance was a wise investment.
It paid off multiple times over. Documented. Lance Effect.

A waste of taxpayer money would have been spending $6+ million investigating the Hon. Sir Hubert Opperman's doping past. Stupid.

And not only Austalians benefited from Lance's attendance at the Tour Down Under - Americans did too. Win Win.

Not only did Lance earn enough to support many American Lawyers and their families, the US Gov reaped the benefits of Lance's taxes. High tax bracket Lance. Too bad the US Gov is wasting that money and then some investigating Lance. Sigh.

Opperman was racing over 100 years ago. I doubt their was testing or that dope was illegal. Remind yourself about what Anquetil said about doping and his career was through the 50's.

One need only look at their affiliations and political ties. They are Labor and the Labor party is filled with lying, cheating, stealing scum. There is your answer. They are in it for the old "Jobs for the Boys." Nothing more. Aussies are no bullsh1t oriented people, problem is, these guys are the bullsh1t slingers who need to be called out.

Honestly, for the original quote, it was in a cyclingcentral article. I commented and was censored. That says enough to you. SBS and cycling viewing in Australia is a joke. Fun to go on their site though and get a rise out of all the gullible idiots there. This entire group of people have fed off the lies and PR of team LA. When he goes down, it will be interesting to see the political ramifications in South Australia. The opposition party next election will only need a nice audit into taxpayer spending on the TDU these last three years to see how much money was sent down the toilet to get LA to appear. I'm guessing a lot, better, people will care when a court nails LA.

Think of it this way. Marion Jones, Landis, etc, all the most profited dopers, the ones who won big, they are hated. Jones won on Aussie soil, hence hatred for her is great. Many casual fans who turned into the TDU will do a complete 180 turn when confronted with undeniable evidence. They will bay for blood and Rann and Turtur will be literally neck deep in ***. It's the chamois sniffers that you will never turn. Australia has a comparable percentage to the US of these types, majority are diehard Labor voters, the people to whom common sense and reality are disposable commodities, who every election still vote for the scum that stole, lied and drove their state into record debt. You can't get through to these people, they are mentally deranged. The SBS crew is mostly in this mold, so why bother? You don't, you line them up and rip them off, preferrably to their face. Oh and they believe in unbriddled censorship, meaning they are cowards. They will run for the hills when the press ask questions about Armstrong once Novitsky has torn him a new one.

+ 2 trillion

RE: the SBS crew, it is not just them, it is many television personalities in general who fit into that very left wing mould who are diehard Labor.

Rann really ain't overly popular. Last election their was a swing of 8.4% against his labor Party, on two party preffered it was Coa: 51.6% Lab: 48.4%, Coa had 5% more of the primary vote in SA yet Labor wins by 8 seats. Not trying to get too political but Rann isn't overly popular. No way Rann will be in office in 2014. I guess we'll have to put up with him tilll then.

 

[laziali]

turtur won't be running the TDU next year so his comments are somewhat meaningless

Untrue. And I know, unlike you.

 

[bhack361]

You wonder why the thread comes to a halt when you post, but you post about everything but the topic. Turtur- not Hill 108, not Tomo being a nong, not eddy Merckx.

Maybe start a new thread?

Laugh for the day....thank you for that. You guys kill me!

 

[yourwelcome]

RE: the SBS crew, it is not just them, it is many television personalities in general who fit into that very left wing mould who are diehard Labor.

Jeez, Australian media is overrun by 'very left wing' television personalities? Whatever you say ;-)

Re Turtur, that was pretty foolish, but for me personally the sunny side is that hopefully he'll go down with the ship and I'll never have to listen to his inarticulate commentary on cycling again.

 

[Shortleg]

Turtur, UCI & TDU

Mike Turtur – will an “absolute coup” turn into “quite a mess”?

Posted earlier at the "Ashenden & Cycling Australian president on Cycling Central (Aus. TV)" and suggested better at this older Turtur thread - which i think may be more active in coming days ...

This from my Northern Myth post earlier today, 22 October, 2012.

Since late 2008 Turtur has arguably been the most powerful man in Australian cycling and his seat at the table of the body responsible for the world-wide administration of cycling makes him one of the most powerful in world cycling.
...
Five weeks later Mike Turtur was elected President of the Oceania Cycling Confederation, an organisation without a website, and according to some at least, an organisation in decay and without a purpose or future. Notwithstanding the merits or otherise of the regional Confederation, election to that position automatically gained Turtur a seat on the UCI’s powerful Management Committee, on which he sat for the first time soon after the running of the 2009 Tour Down Under.

 

[summerhill]

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/A...nia-President-&-Tour-Down-Under-Director/6336

Mike Turtur "LA world's most tested athlete, tested more than 500 times, can't remember when he heard rumours" - generally evasive. He's obviously not read USADA's report then and needs to for next Friday.

 

[Velodude]

Turtur/LA relationship downside.

Cycling Australia and Bike NZ drop support for long time LA supporter, Mike Turtur, as Oceania Confederation President for UCI.

As Oceania Confederation President, Turtur sat on the UCI Management Committee

CyclingNews report:
Turtur has recently come under fire for failing to publicise the fact that ONCE-Eroski rider Giampaolo Caruso returned a positive dope test after winning the Willunga Hill stage at the Tour Down Under in 2003. Until recently, Turtur was a staunch defendant of the reported multi-million dollar appearance fee paid to Lance Armstrong in 2009, 2010 and 2011 but has now said he feels "duped" by the revelations regarding the American.

Appears National Federations have a conscience towards any tainted LA related history and are now putting efforts into ensuring a transparent representation in any future UCI decisions.

 

[Ferminal]

lol, I think I read earlier somewhere that Turtur had received a boost with Fiji backing him to continue.

Obviously failed to mention that Australia/NZ had pulled the pin.

When are elections for the UCI Management Committee? To keep his seat there he'd need to win a ballot?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

lol, I think I read earlier somewhere that Turtur had received a boost with Fiji backing him to continue.

Obviously failed to mention that Australia/NZ had pulled the pin.

When are elections for the UCI Management Committee? To keep his seat there he'd need to win a ballot?

Fiji and Guam are supposedly backing Turtur.
ANZ are backing Gaudry.

Guam cycling federation - checked their website. Sorry to denigrate a cycling org, but Guam itself at 181k population has less people in the entire country than Victoria's larger cities.

They are also an American outpost, using American currency, etc.

If there is a split vote, as is forecast given the above, the "chair" of the Oceania federation is the deciding vote, and you guessed it. The chair is actually 2 people.

UCI had a hand in setting this up.

And this is a very good example of why I keep saying: fixing the "UCI" will in no way fix cycling. The entire system needs an overhaul.

 

[Tinman]

Fiji and Guam are supposedly backing Turtur.
ANZ are backing Gaudry.

Guam cycling federation - checked their website. Sorry to denigrate a cycling org, but Guam itself at 181k population has less people in the entire country than Victoria's larger cities.

They are also an American outpost, using American currency, etc.

If there is a split vote, as is forecast given the above, the "chair" of the Oceania federation is the deciding vote, and you guessed it. The chair is actually 2 people.

UCI had a hand in setting this up.

And this is a very good example of why I keep saying: fixing the "UCI" will in no way fix cycling. The entire system needs an overhaul.

You are actually making the case for fixing UCI. Cannot fix a rigged voting system if you don't fix its leadership.

By the way, FIFA system same. Little countries same voting weight as big ones, easier to pay off/influence for support. Often a bottle of whiskey will do the job

It's rotten leadership that is at the core of the problem, at UCI, and in sports in general. And way too little public scrutiny/interest and media investigation/follow through. A convenient vicious circle.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You are actually making the case for fixing UCI. Cannot fix a rigged voting system if you don't fix its leadership.
...
It's rotten leadership that is at the core of the problem, at UCI, and in sports in general. And way too little public scrutiny/interest and media investigation/follow through. A convenient vicious circle.

So who gets voted to the UCI leadership if, for example, Guam and Fiji are immediately supporting Turtur over Gaudry as Oceania president? If Turtur gets back in, what sort of person do you think he would vote for to be UCI president?

I'm not saying UCI must not be fixed - I am saying the whole lot need to be fixed, simultaneously, or we get people like Turtur being reelected, who in turn reelect McQuaid or Verbruggen clones.

 

[Ferminal]

They are all designed like this, you need to remove the people in power but also the mechanisms they put in place to maintain the oligarchy (probably need to do the latter first). If you don't do that then cutting off a limb is not a long-term solution.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

They are all designed like this, you need to remove the people in power but also the mechanisms they put in place to maintain the oligarchy (probably need to do the latter first). If you don't do that then cutting off a limb is not a long-term solution.

Yep. Design a system to support the intent of the sport. Then implement the system.

 

[Tinman]

Yep. Design a system to support the intent of the sport. Then implement the system.

Apols for getting simple. Point I am trying to get to is this. Who sets up (designs and implements) a new system. The leadership. No?

Maybe some of you guys have never worked with capable senior management/leadership? And hence do not believe this can exist? I grant it's getting rare these days but it does exist and there are people who are in these kinds of positions for (mostly) the right reasons.

Get D!ck Pound in as Pat's replacement for one year ad interim, get him to straighten out some of the major messes and create a new "system", then have fresh elections and get the new leadership to work the new system. As an example.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Apols for getting simple. Point I am trying to get to is this. Who sets up (designs and implements) a new system. The leadership. No?

Why not create the system first? Consult with a bunch of people involved at every level, before it becomes a conflict of interest because you are now part of the system and have an opportunity to make it cushier for yourself?

No, I haven't really ever seen what I consider fair and equitable upper management. Feel free to point examples out to me, I am more than willing to accept they exist. I'd like to read about how they operate and what the outcomes of their tenure are.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Why not create the system first? Consult with a bunch of people involved at every level, before it becomes a conflict of interest because you are now part of the system and have an opportunity to make it cushier for yourself?

No, I haven't really ever seen what I consider fair and equitable upper management. Feel free to point examples out to me, I am more than willing to accept they exist. I'd like to read about how they operate and what the outcomes of their tenure are.

Only those within the system have the authority to change it. That's why the leadership is crucial in an organisation with overwhelming systemic governance problems, such as the UCI.

Functional governance systems for accountable organisations exist already, they don't need to be created. All that is needed is the will to implement a better system.

WADA is probably the best example that comes to mind. Their constitution is watertight, where the UCI's is flakey. Their governance and management split is functional, where the UCI's is a clusterfuk. Their governance representation has some diversity, where the UCI's is an exclusive old boys club. The result? Despite the challenges of working within a highly politicized and rather corrupted field, they are progressing steadily towards their ultimate goals. Proper governance and accountability reins in the excesses of vested or conflicted interests.

 

[Ferminal]

Only those within the system have the authority to change it. That's why the leadership is crucial in an organisation with overwhelming systemic governance problems, such as the UCI.

Which is why change can only be driven by external stakeholders. There has been more or less nothing from anyone with a seat at the UCI calling for change. In the current state, whether Pat stays or goes is irrelevant as the next man will be to him what he was to Hein.

Only if those who can pressure the UCI get together and demand reform is it possible for a shift to occur. Sadly there isn't much will there either.