Turtur and LA

[Dear Wiggo]

Which is why change can only be driven by external stakeholders. There has been more or less nothing from anyone with a seat at the UCI calling for change. In the current state, whether Pat stays or goes is irrelevant as the next man will be to him what he was to Hein.

Only if those who can pressure the UCI get together and demand reform is it possible for a shift to occur. Sadly there isn't much will there either.

I like the idea of some external watchdog type entity - small, agile and powerful. Help craft the mechanisms to run the sport, and then ensure they are adhered to and / or modified to suit as new / better mechanisms become available.

The 4.5 month delay for XZTT and Rasmussen incidents - whether the rider is guilty or not - should have resulted in severe recrimination for the responsible party, and did not, nor will they.

This external org could be in charge of results management too, and leave the UCI to administer and "grow" the sport.

External org sets up checks and balances, and more than anything, provides a safe and respectful whistleblower function for anyone in the sport.

Thinking as I'm posting here, but this is akin to what I have been imagining.

WADA do not enforce their edicts - the passport is a good example of that - and even if they did, what's the mechanism for "punishing" a wayward body? When Deck Pound has a go at cycling, UCI sued him ffs.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Which is why change can only be driven by external stakeholders. There has been more or less nothing from anyone with a seat at the UCI calling for change. In the current state, whether Pat stays or goes is irrelevant as the next man will be to him what he was to Hein.

Only if those who can pressure the UCI get together and demand reform is it possible for a shift to occur. Sadly there isn't much will there either.

For orgs like the UCI, I agree that the pressure to change has to come from external stakeholders, because the internal accountability mechanisms are dysfunctional.

Pat going improves accountability a little, primarily because who ever replaces him will know if they do the same thing their head will roll. It's not enough though. There needs to be some definitive targets which the UCI is held accountable to.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

I like the idea of some external watchdog type entity - small, agile and powerful. Help craft the mechanisms to run the sport, and then ensure they are adhered to and / or modified to suit as new / better mechanisms become available.

The 4.5 month delay for XZTT and Rasmussen incidents - whether the rider is guilty or not - should have resulted in severe recrimination for the responsible party, and did not, nor will they.

This external org could be in charge of results management too, and leave the UCI to administer and "grow" the sport.

External org sets up checks and balances, and more than anything, provides a safe and respectful whistleblower function for anyone in the sport.

Thinking as I'm posting here, but this is akin to what I have been imagining.

WADA do not enforce their edicts - the passport is a good example of that - and even if they did, what's the mechanism for "punishing" a wayward body? When Deck Pound has a go at cycling, UCI sued him ffs.

The watchdog is supposed to be Congress. They are supposed to be looking after their members interests by holding the UCI accountable.

The problem is congress members don't understand their role, and the structure prevents them from fulfilling it anyway.

No independent organisation can be as effective a watchdog, at least not on an ongoing basis. Setting up the powers of the independent org is massively fraught, and who is the independent org accountable to? The UCI? It should be accountable to the grass roots riders....which would have to come through the feds......

Local riders have to hold the feds accountable, the feds have to hold the UCI accountable on the riders behalf. People would rather be riding their bikes though, so it has to be made easy, and there needs to be additional checks and balances.

Sorry to rant, NGO governance is kinda in my wheelhouse.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Sorry to rant, NGO governance is kinda in my wheelhouse.

I don't see it as rant. Passionate dialog at worst.

Please continue. I told you I was working on things this end, and this is it, in bits and pieces. The more disagreement and explained, constructive feedback the better. Sharpening the ideas is what I am all about here.

Agreed on teh watchdog powers and accountability. I was thinking to WADA / IOC, but to be honest it's the single weakest part of my "system", but also the single element that makes or breaks it - for now. Having a single point of failure is teh dumb.

As soon as people get involved, things can fail. That's optimism right there hah!

I'll keep thinking - there's lots of other elements to cover off.

 

[MAVerick]

I was thinking of alternatives to every federation having the same weight ... what other options are there? Based on population? Then the USA would outweigh all of Europe. China, a relatively non-cycle racing nation, would outweigh everyone else. Perhaps based on the number of pro licence holders? Then Europe would have a stranglehold and there would never be any expansion of racing outside of Europe.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I was thinking of alternatives to every federation having the same weight ... what other options are there? Based on population? Then the USA would outweigh all of Europe. China, a relatively non-cycle racing nation, would outweigh everyone else. Perhaps based on the number of pro licence holders? Then Europe would have a stranglehold and there would never be any expansion of racing outside of Europe.

Registered rider population? Pro rider population? Combinations of all three (rec, amateur racer, pro)?

Guam having equal weight to Australia or even NZ seems a little silly.

If we take a step back - what's the point of the condfederation in the first place? How much say do those presidents actually get in what goes on with the UCI?

Seems Pat does wtf ever he wants, regardless.

If we lose the confederation entirely, what have we lost? Need to consult the minutes of the meetings to confirm, but the whole thing looks like a beard to me (Chris Carmichael reference).

 

[MAVerick]

I can't disagree that Guam having equal weight to Aus is silly. But again, if you choose a system based on the number of pro racers, for example, then the European countries would historically have had a stranglehold on pro cycling and could have ensured that racing never expanded beyond Europe. Or, looking to the future, China "registers" a million pro racers next year and thus drives pro racing thereafter.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I can't disagree that Guam having equal weight to Aus is silly. But again, if you choose a system based on the number of pro racers, for example, then the European countries would historically have had a stranglehold on pro cycling and could have ensured that racing never expanded beyond Europe. Or, looking to the future, China "registers" a million pro racers next year and thus drives pro racing thereafter.

Agreed. Which is why I suggested

Combinations of all three (rec, amateur racer, pro)?

Each registration at the Nat Fed feeds money back into the UCI. Proteams pay a heap of money to the UCI for BP and other expenses.

So if China did add 1M "pro" racers next year, hallelujah It's not really a scenario I am concerned about

 

[blackcat]

The 4.5 month delay for XZTT and Rasmussen incidents - whether the rider is guilty or not - should have resulted in severe recrimination for the responsible party, and did not, nor will they.

alby davis was also made to sit out a truckload of time, and come back thru the minors with Mitsubishi Jartazi

lots else got stood down and could not get a hall pass from the you see eye in aigle

the all seeing eye

Benthem first had the theory about the panopticon, before they stuck it in Aigle. Then JV thought it was a good idea, he took equal parts to boulder and gerona http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

 

[blackcat]

M Tomalaris indicates:
... (well the general jist of it, i can't remember his words exactly) "well even if he did, he bought so much money and attention to the sport I think we can safely say most of us here today wouldn't be here without him."

basically said that, copying the Armstrong soundbite "done too much for so many people". Think Toma mentioned cancer too. That gives him a double word score eh.

Compare and contrast Toma's take on Vino, Ullrich, Landis, Rasmussen and the invective heaped on them

 

[Dear Wiggo]

basically said that, copying the Armstrong soundbite "done too much for so many people". Think Toma mentioned cancer too. That gives him a double word score eh.

Compare and contrast Toma's take on Vino, Ullrich, Landis, Rasmussen and the invective heaped on them

Same thing Wiggo said in 2010.

 

[blackcat]

No, we can't move on, because hacks like you couldn't force the issue as "journalists" back then. Now you complain about people doing a proper job? Admittedly McGrory has probably only been retired for 5 or so years (but I'm sure he had a great time riding for Gerolsteiner).

mcgrory rode for mapei too,

gerolsteiner and mapei would have been half bremen munich berlin gent et al

 

[MAVerick]

Sorry to be hard of understanding, but it doesn't matter what category riders are registered under, under such a system whichever federation can sign up the most riders has the most clout. Thus the federation which has the potential to sign the most riders could, eventually, control the UCI. So we could have a scenario with China, a relatively new cycling nation, and India, a totally non-cycling nation (as far as racing goes) controlling the UCI. Under such a system cycle racing as we presently know it would be unrecognizable. On the other hand, it could be argued that the federations that have controlled the UCI heretofore haven't done such a bang up job either.

 

[Tinman]

Excellent article by Lloyd Freeburn on Turtur's conflict of interest positions and upcoming Oceania election.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ion-for-the-oceania-confederation-presidency?

Will now have a look at his other articles.

 

[Kretch]

Excellent article by Lloyd Freeburn on Turtur's conflict of interest positions and upcoming Oceania election.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ion-for-the-oceania-confederation-presidency?

Will now have a look at his other articles.

Got to love Mr Freeburn's style - calling the BS for what it is.

 

[Bushranger]

MovingTarget has made a comment about the "GREAT TOMMO" which leads me to wonder WHY the Aussie Public allow him to continue to swan around France for a month each year !

Luckily i do not have to suffer throughhis reports as i am there and in the past have watched the "input" so have wondered HOW he gets to be "mr Sbs" ? Surely it is time that someone like Mike Milton or Gatesy with "inside knowledge" takes centre stage ?

Sara Carrigan or Oenone Wood would be great for SBS and even Brido could do a better job if they were available .

French TV can work with anyone that speaks English but Cycling Knowledge is what the viewer is looking for , not imitators of DD or the P & P show !

Hate to defend a Lance lover but... Tomalaris was interviewed on radio in Australia (Talkin sport) after USADA released its repot. He didn,t pull any punches.He not only called Armstrong a cheat and a liar he questioned his contribution to cancer charity. The boast Graham Huges used the old ...hes done so much for cancer charity..donated his own money ....Tomalaris called this into question, saying that he lied about ped use so why believe him about the cancer cause! I thought it was great. Very few commentators have been that brutally honest.

 

[blackcat]

Excellent article by Lloyd Freeburn on Turtur's conflict of interest positions and upcoming Oceania election.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ion-for-the-oceania-confederation-presidency?

Will now have a look at his other articles.

if nothin else, Lloyd Freeburn was blessed with a fine appellation. Pher- Ine!

 

[skippy]

@bushranger , are you saying i am a " Lance fanboy "?

Wrong there ! All through i was looking for " fairplay " , hoping that this would quickly put to bed the problems in the Cycling scene ! What happened with the USADA reasoned report was something very few expected ! It took the wind out of ALL PARTIES that had any input .

My comment elsewhere today says a little about what i would like to see in the near future :

Ashenden & Fuller are investing time and effort to help the " Cycling Public " to have a say in the way forward for Cycle Racing ! They deserve OUR Respect for that effort ! Agree that the eventual leadership should be composed of those that are able to point the finger at existing problems and lead the way forward . That there will be some with questionable backgrounds joining is certain , but " Catherine Marsal ( Past , French Womens'champ ?) is only the first of many that will deride these worthwhile efforts . When i look at the response to petitions as shpwn in this tweet :

" These petitions need YOUR support ! http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...eans-for-a-sports-amnesty-in-australia#invite … and http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition … What are YOU waiting for ? Change only comes when helped!

I WONDER if there are FANS out there willing to help ?

Off to see what i can do to help thae efforts these people will make this weekend , what will the rest of you do ?

Roll over and go back to dreaming ?

 

[fatsprintking]

Well me, i'll be :

- Remaining involved in my local club and trying to lobby CA to think about who it endorses for Oceania representation on the UCI - not Mike Turter.
- Working with junior riders and trying to instill the idea that being able to look yourself in the mirror is more important than undeserved success.
- Sending through a submission with ideas about how to deal with some of the cultural/structural issues in Australian cycling as part of the review process.


But you keep signing those petitions from wherever it is that you are currently situated on the High Moral Ground.

 

[Tinman]

Will have to check what can be done for a cycling holiday to Guam now. They deserve cycling tourism support!

 

[peterst6906]

Excellent article by Lloyd Freeburn on Turtur's conflict of interest positions and upcoming Oceania election.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ion-for-the-oceania-confederation-presidency?

As of yesterday, Turtur officially replaced by Gaudry.

Unanimous support for Gaudry over Turtur.

A win for the reform ticket and Tracey will take a strong position forward to the UCI.

Sunday, 2 December 2012

Dual Olympian Tracey Gaudry has been elected President of the Oceania Cycling Confederation.

Gaudry, who received unanimous support, will also have an automatic position on the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) Management Committee.

“It’s a privilege and honour to be elected President of the Oceania Cycling Confederation, to represent the cycling communities of Oceania alongside a new Executive and carry responsibility for reform and progression to the UCI Management Committee,” Ms Gaudry said.

“For me, cycling is a way of life and a great sport. I and the Oceania members believe now is the time to build upon what is already great about cycling and not allow history to dictate the future.

“I am motivated to ensure that cycling can capture the opportunity we have for greater grass-roots participation and competition in the Oceania region, and furthering efforts towards effective anti-doping reform and equity globally."

Cycling Australia President Klaus Mueller says Gaudry’s election represents an opportunity for true reform within cycling, particularly in anti-doping policy, governance, diversity and equity.

“Tracey is an outstanding person, with an impeccable cycling and professional record. She’s the perfect person to fight the challenges cycling is currently facing head on,” Mr Mueller said.

“Tracey’s a leader and she’ll make a significant contribution at Oceania and UCI levels to the betterment of cycling.”

Ms Gaudry, a multiple national champion, dual Olympian and Commonwealth Games representative, is the CEO of the Amy Gillett Foundation, director of AustCycle and a former board member of Cycling Australia.

Mueller also thanked outgoing President Mike Turtur for his contribution to the sport.

“Mike has been a dedicated servant of cycling and has helped boost the public profile of the sport during his four-year stint as President of Oceania and a member of the UCI Management Committee,” Mr Mueller said.

“The good news for Australian cycling is that Mike will continue to be involved in the sport as Race Director of the Australia’s only UCI World Tour Event, the Tour Down Under."

The General Meeting unanimously supported the continuation of Turtur's role on the UCI Track Cycling Commission.

Gaudry was elected to a four year term.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

As of yesterday, Turtur officially replaced by Gaudry.

Unanimous support for Gaudry over Turtur.

A win for the reform ticket and Tracey will take a strong position forward to the UCI.

She can replace McQuaid next (via LeMond?)

 

[doolols]

She can replace McQuaid next (via LeMond?)

We can but hope.

 

[ValleyFlowers]

image from story @ VeloNation: Gaudry unanimously elected President of the Oceania Cycling Confederation

 

[Tinman]

image from story

The fresh face of a clean new cycling