Two Questions About Levi???

[BroDeal]

I expect the entire RS team to degrade during the race. If Armstrong has decided that it is too risky for him to do a lot of doping during the Tour then he certainly will not want his teammates to risk getting caught. It would reflect badly on him and Bruyneel. It would also add a large amount of fuel to the current media stories about Landis' revelations.

 

[Anonymous]

Flashes of brilliance:

ToC champ 2007-2009
TDF - (podium) 3rd
Dauphine 2006
etc...

Also-ran may have been harsh but it's pertaining to the high hopes as a Tour GC contender but never quite getting farther than 3rd on the podium.

...

ToC well I do not give that so much value. I think it is nice to have a warmup tour but that is about all it is.
TDF 3d is about like he was the only one left to take it. All others were kicked out of the race.
Dauphine was another warm up similar to the ToC.


I do not think Also-ran was harsh. Your on target with that statement. It was the flashes of brilliance I had trouble with. I have never seen it in my opinion.

 

[Oldman]

yes. when did we start to see gc riders extend their competitive years well into ther 30s.

once blood vector drugs came into play.

apart from a few exceptions (poupou and zoetemelk) gc riders always started to decline after around age 30 -- and main thing was always recovery. they might have some great days, but their bad days would be more frequent.

since 1991 we have had a succession of late winners and people who manage to race GCs with no bad days well into their 30s.

the only way armstrong came back last year, finished 3rd with amazing ability to recover, was that he was being sustained day in day out with blood vector drugs and/or blood doping.

There is another factor for older racers remaining competitive: they hadn't raced as much or as hard as their predecessors. Prior to the 90's most guys raced everything they could or had to based on their team/sponsor's demands. They were worn out.

 

[Alpechraxler]

I think two important things people often forget about when discussing Lance's performance back there in 1999. First he came back from his cancer therapy, from the chemo, he lost a lot of weight back then (i guess without hgh), which he for sure has regained over the years. The second point which i think was quite important was the anger that drove him. Surviving the cancer, getting your contract cancelled for sure changes a lot in your mind. Just these two factor dimished over the years.

 

[Anonymous]

Armstrong bad week...?

Stage 3 was the fault of radio shack for putting idiot wheels on the bikes, the team suffered punctures galore.. 2nd problem was lance didnt have the strength to ride over the cobbles so he rode in the gutters where you are more likely to puncture.

Yesterday - did he actually crash THREE times, or did he come off his bike once? The Euskaltel incident was hardly a crash

 

[Orinda8]

I think two important things people often forget about when discussing Lance's performance back there in 1999. First he came back from his cancer therapy, from the chemo, he lost a lot of weight back then (i guess without hgh), which he for sure has regained over the years. The second point which i think was quite important was the anger that drove him. Surviving the cancer, getting your contract cancelled for sure changes a lot in your mind. Just these two factor dimished over the years.

That "weight change" was more of a myth than reality;Walsh looked at this in his book on LA and actually found that there was less than 5 lb difference from his last race pre-treatment and his first tour after treatment.

 

[mikkemus23]

What if LA and Johan just said to h3ll with it, we`re going down anyway, and just filled everyone up like it was 99 and really really went for it tomorrow, Landis style, finishing it in Gewiss style 1-2-3. And then get busted the next day.

 

[Cerberus]

What if LA and Johan just said to h3ll with it, we`re going down anyway, and just filled everyone up like it was 99 and really really went for it tomorrow, Landis style, finishing it in Gewiss style 1-2-3. And then get busted the next day.

Well these things take time to work you can't just take 20 shots of grade A EPO and ride away from the field 2 hours later.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Hhmmm... how about LA flatting in stage 2 and crashing 3 times in Stage 8?

Only the utterly clueless who never watched Stage 8 still believe in the myth that Lance crashed 3 times. But whatever.

 

[MacRoadie]

Whatever the questions might be, the answers are:

5"-2",

Rogaine.

 

[santacruz]

Do you think there is any slim chance that having cancer might have attributed to his 'lack of recovering abilities ' in the mid 1990s?

I heard that he got a late cancer diagnosis because of the foul play going on with his dope tests, or perhaps the drugs he was shooting up were interfering and not showing the tell tale signs of cancer.

 

[buckwheat]

Only the utterly clueless who never watched Stage 8 still believe in the myth that Lance crashed 3 times. But whatever.

Damn, this has really gotten much worse than I imagined it could get.

These believers are like the Japanese guys who held out on Pacific islands 25 years after WWII ended.

 

[buckwheat]

Hhmmm... how about LA flatting in stage 2 and crashing 3 times in Stage 8? Maybe that has something to do with Levi being ahead of LA? No? Doping or not, you have that much bad luck you aren't going to win anything.

Call it bad luck, karma, whatever, LA has had a teribble first week. The only ones to have worse weeks are VDV, Frank Schleck, Gerrans and others that broke something that did not allow them to go on.

Honestly, I have little faith in Levi. He's an also-ran that will never get to the top step of the Tour podium. He has flashes of brilliance but not enough to ward off the likes of AC and AS when push comes to shove.

You've been reading too much rah rah, power of positive thinking, self help bs.

 

[Tumble]

Damn, this has really gotten much worse than I imagined it could get.

These believers are like the Japanese guys who held out on Pacific islands 25 years after WWII ended.

Yeah, they are real crazy alright. They always have to sex it up by pretending Armstrong had some extra terrible thing happen to him. We all know it was two crashes, not three.

 

[this_is_edie]

and he's back.

 

[buckwheat]

Do you think there is any slim chance that having cancer might have attributed to his 'lack of recovering abilities ' in the mid 1990s?

I do not doubt that Ferarri and JB potions are not a big part of the success formula, but the lack of objectivity of the haters is hard to swallow.

No, don't think that at all. I do think it's more likely that he was on so much $hit @ the height of Indurain, Riis, Rominger, that he gave himself cancer.

 

[flicker]

First of all, how can we explain Levi's performance compared with Lance's?

With Lance it seems clear that he came into the race doped to the gills and got a high placing in the prologue. But as the race went on, he seemed to grow weaker and increasingly unsure. Most of the posters in The Clinic have asserted that Lance wasn't receiving his normal "fillups", presumably because of increased scrutiny in this race.

So where does that leave Levi? How was he able to stay in the front group? I have no doubts that he was doping to achieve that finish, but how can Levi get away with it if Lance can't?

The second question pertains to some of Levi's past history. My memory is failing me, so I'm looking for some of you guys to fill me in.

The way I remember it was that around five or six years ago Levi raced his first Tour and did amazingly well. As I recall, he was on some (smaller?) team that couldn't support him properly.

So after the Tour was over, somebody signed him as being the next great US hope (I think Lance was "retiring"). They were going to build a team around him so that he could win the Tour.

Levi was in heaven until months later (in the off season?), the DS hired somebody else who was an even better rider. Levi was totally ****ed, but he never complained (at least not publicly).

Was the DS Bruyneel? That sure sounds like something he would do!

And who was the other rider? Was it Contador? If so, that was where AC learned to dope.

Whoever the cast of characters in that back-stabbing episode were, Levi is now the Great White Hope for Radio Shack and Bruyneel. There may be some delicious irony at work here....

Let me explain. No dope makes a race horse out of a donkey. Levi and Lance are both stage racers but different types of riders. Dope has nothing to do with how they have done in this tour. Ride your bike learn how to race and you will understand.(if you make it to Cat.2) You my friend are a silly goose.

 

[Benotti69]

... Lance are both stage racers but different types of riders. Dope has nothing to do with how they have done in this tour. Ride your bike learn how to race and you will understand.(if you make it to Cat.2) You my friend are a silly goose.

When was Lance a stage racer? oh yeah cancer cured his lack of ability to recover, mountain climb and TT over 3 weeks

 

[Wallace]

Let me explain. No dope makes a race horse out of a donkey. Levi and Lance are both stage racers but different types of riders. Dope has nothing to do with how they have done in this tour. Ride your bike learn how to race and you will understand.(if you make it to Cat.2) You my friend are a silly goose.

Ferrari made a 7 time GT champion out of a decent one day specialist.

You, my friend, are a moron.

 

[Cerberus]

I heard that he got a late cancer diagnosis because of the foul play going on with his dope tests, or perhaps the drugs he was shooting up were interfering and not showing the tell tale signs of cancer.

The argument is that the Cancer would have elevated certain proteins which would have set of alarm bells in doping tests because doping elevates the same proteins thus triggering an early detection of the cancer. The fact that his cancer was detected so late is then held as evidence that Armstrong must have been using masking agents. I haven't really looked into it, so I can't vouch for whether and to what extend, the argument holds water.

 

[Roland Rat]

The argument is that the Cancer would have elevated certain proteins which would have set of alarm bells in doping tests because doping elevates the same proteins thus triggering an early detection of the cancer. The fact that his cancer was detected so late is then held as evidence that Armstrong must have been using masking agents. I haven't really looked into it, so I can't vouch for whether and to what extend, the argument holds water.

Sounds plausible to me.

An other/additional argument, of course, is that the drugs significantly increased the veracity of the cancer, so that it spread much more rapidly than a "normal" cancer giving a reduced detection time.

 

[Cerberus]

Sounds plausible to me.

An other/additional argument, of course, is that the drugs significantly increased the veracity of the cancer, so that it spread much more rapidly than a "normal" cancer giving a reduced detection time.

It's definitely plausible, but I'm clearly not going to present something as a fact unless I know it is in fact, a fact. As for the drugs making the cancer worse I suppose that's plausible to, but I read somewhere that it's a myth or at least not well-supported that there is a link between doping and cancer. Not saying you have to take my vague recollection of something I read somewhere as gospel, but just throwing it out there.

 

[frenchfry]

Is Levi in the race? I don't think I have seen him yet.

 

[MacRoadie]

Is Levi in the race? I don't think I have seen him yet.

Neither have Contador or Schleck...

 

[ColumbusSL]

Let me explain. No dope makes a race horse out of a donkey. Levi and Lance are both stage racers but different types of riders. Dope has nothing to do with how they have done in this tour. Ride your bike learn how to race and you will understand.(if you make it to Cat.2) You my friend are a silly goose.

+1





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