Tyler's Book

[mastersracer]

What becomes apparent to me when reading and applying the USPS template of doping to present day is Wiggins is doping. I’m sorry that some don’t like to hear it but that’s what you walk away with. Yes I’m hypothesising but there’s now no doubt in my mind that Wiggins is working with Ferrari. The similarities of what Tyler explains are scarcely close to what Wiggins aimed for in terms of body form and output. I also note that the defense to doping question was similar to Armstrong once it clicked in Armstrong that attack was the best form of defense.

I knew a lot of the detail prior but this account provides excellent context as each story is cross referenced with the players involved. The real beauty everyone is named rather than innocuous terms of doctors or other cyclists.

isn't there enough directly implicated by the book to keep this thread focused on that? There's not a single mention of Wiggins in the book - take it to the Sky forum if you want to discuss something unrelated to the book.

What about the courier - motoman - anyone tried to find him?

How about Kristen Armstrong joking to Hamilton about how high his numbers were (50.9)?

What about the fact Armstrong did not even attempt to hide the EPO in his fridge?

Riis giving Hamilton Fuentes' phone #.

Fuentes' assistant had dementia - probably explains the positives as mishandled blood bags.

The derision for Carmichael. Never listened to him as a coach during his early career. Coyle and Hamilton seem to go out of their way to show LA never received any coaching from Carmichael.

There's a ton of revelations to discuss here.

 

[MacRoadie]

isn't there enough directly implicated by the book to keep this thread focused on that? There's not a single mention of Wiggins in the book - take it to the Sky forum if you want to discuss something unrelated to the book.

What about the courier - motoman - anyone tried to find him?

How about Kristen Armstrong joking to Hamilton about how high his numbers were (50.9)?

What about the fact Armstrong did not even attempt to hide the EPO in his fridge?

Riis giving Hamilton Fuentes' phone #.

Fuentes' assistant had dementia - probably explains the positives as mishandled blood bags.

The derision for Carmichael. Never listened to him as a coach during his early career. Coyle and Hamilton seem to go out of their way to show LA never received any coaching from Carmichael.

There's a ton of revelations to discuss here.

Agree. Take Wiggo to the Sky thread.

 

[thehog]

isn't there enough directly implicated by the book to keep this thread focused on that? There's not a single mention of Wiggins in the book - take it to the Sky forum if you want to discuss something unrelated to the book.

What about the courier - motoman - anyone tried to find him?

How about Kristen Armstrong joking to Hamilton about how high his numbers were (50.9)?

What about the fact Armstrong did not even attempt to hide the EPO in his fridge?

Riis giving Hamilton Fuentes' phone #.

Fuentes' assistant had dementia - probably explains the positives as mishandled blood bags.

The derision for Carmichael. Never listened to him as a coach during his early career. Coyle and Hamilton seem to go out of their way to show LA never received any coaching from Carmichael.

There's a ton of revelations to discuss here.

Mealy an observation. That is all. The similarities are striking.

But agree this is the Tyler thread.

 

[BikeCentric]

Tyler on Colin Cowherd's ESPN radio show today:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8344835

 

[Microchip]

How interesting that Armstrong's reply to the book does NOT say that it's a pack of lies. Just that it's greedy and self-serving to talk about things more than 10 years after they happened. Should have mine by early next week!

“Writing a book today about events that allegedly took place more than 10 years ago is not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong. It is greedy, opportunistic and self-serving.”

 

[Cimber]

Tyler: "Riis is a good person for the sport"

And "a lot have changed in the last 10 years" (regarding the cycling culture)

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1822089.ece

 

[Ride to forget]

luckyboy - where did you order your copy of the book?

Have cancelled my order for the UK version.

 

[HL2037]

How interesting that Armstrong's reply to the book does NOT say that it's a pack of lies. Just that it's greedy and self-serving to talk about things more than 10 years after they happened. Should have mine by early next week!

“Writing a book today about events that allegedly took place more than 10 years ago is not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong. It is greedy, opportunistic and self-serving.”

Projection - Hallmark of the narcissist

 

[Benotti69]

How interesting that Armstrong's reply to the book does NOT say that it's a pack of lies. Just that it's greedy and self-serving to talk about things more than 10 years after they happened. Should have mine by early next week!

“Writing a book today about events that allegedly took place more than 10 years ago is not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong. It is greedy, opportunistic and self-serving.”

I doubt Armstrong actually knows right from wrong.

Is that all he had to say?

 

[Fatclimber]

How interesting that Armstrong's reply to the book does NOT say that it's a pack of lies. Just that it's greedy and self-serving to talk about things more than 10 years after they happened. Should have mine by early next week!

“Writing a book today about events that allegedly took place more than 10 years ago is not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong. It is greedy, opportunistic and self-serving.”

I find it funny how all of the insults LA has dished out over the years directed at his detractors describe himself perfectly. Just got my copy from the bookstore.

 

[Cloxxki]

I doubt Armstrong actually knows right from wrong.

There is an easy way to test this.
Show test subject a video of Tom and Jerry. Tom exhausts Jerry totally, then plays some soccer with Jerry, not a ball. He then dissects Jerry. Each spare parts. then makes a points of delaying Jerry's last breath as long as possible, before eating the remains.
Ask test subject whom he was rooting for the whole time. We all know the answer.

 

[Racelap]

What about the courier - motoman - anyone tried to find him?

Have you read the footnotes? Coyle found him. He owns a bike shop near Nice called Stars'n'Bikes. Coyle contacted him twice and his denials were... well, you should make up your own mind about them.

 

[mastersracer]

Have you read the footnotes? Coyle found him. He owns a bike shop near Nice called Stars'n'Bikes. Coyle contacted him twice and his denials were... well, you should make up your own mind about them.

sorry, I meant whether any journalists or even readers of the forum had tried to contact him or know him - Coyle's footnote indicated there was a language barrier, so it wasn't a very productive telephone conversation.

 

[QuickStepper]

Any mention yet of the episode where LA snitches to the UCI about Hamilton after Hamilton beats him on the Ventoux time trial? Apparently did the same to Mayo and some other Spanish riders.

Yes, there is a very detailed narrative about this episode.

MAJOR SPOILER ALERT.... DO NOT READ ON UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT THE DETAILS FROM THE BOOK......

There are at least two different Ventoux incidents that figure prominently in the book. The first occurs fairly early on in the book and is not the one that involved the UCI incident. That was the second one, that took place during the 2004 Dauphine, immediately before the TdF that year. Tyler had already left CSC and was with Phonak. Even though he says he felt uncomfortable doing BB (blood bag) transfusions with his whole team, since that was not the "program" after 1999-- he contends that due to increased scrutiny, riders became responsible for their own programs, with the support of DS's and doctors, but essentially it was on their own. Anyway, in 2004 before the Dauphine and the TdF, Tyler and his Phonak guys had gotten into doing blood transfusions and they had all prepared together, rather than separately, and they were primed to go.

At the Dauphine, Stage 4 was a time trial up the Ventoux. They started in reverse order of the standings: First Lance, then Tyler, then Mayo next. Tyler then describes what it's like to ride up Ventoux and how it felt to beat Armstrong's time that day. Here's a quick excerpt:

Riding Ventoux is a strange experience, especially as you near the peak. Without any perspective— no trees, no buildings— distances can fool you. At times you can feel like you’re going fast, other times like you’re standing still. Now, it felt like I was flying. I could see Lance up ahead through the heat shimmer. For a moment, it felt like I was going to catch him and pass him. I almost did. When I crossed the line I had ascended Mont Ventoux faster than anyone else in history. I’d put 1: 22 on Lance in less than an hour— a big number.

* * *

I saw Lance for a second at the top. His face was tight. He had a towel around his neck. He didn’t say a word to me or anybody; I saw him pedal away toward a team car. He looked scared. He’d ridden Ventoux faster than he’d ever ridden it, and we’d throttled him. The Tour was in three weeks and everything was on the line: the possibility of a record sixth consecutive victory, his status as the all-time greatest Tour winner, not to mention the millions in bonuses he stood to make from Nike, Oakley, Trek, and his other sponsors. I knew he would attack; I just wasn’t sure how he’d do it.

Tyler then goes on to describe how, after the Dauphine and before the start of the TdF, he received a call from the UCI asking him to come to the headquarters in Switzerland. Apparently no one ever explained to him why he was being asked to visit, and he didn't question it. He went and it was a very strange meeting with the UCI people. When he returned to Girona, he found a letter telling him that the UCI would be watching him closely due to his suspicous blood values from the Dauphine.

The book then moves on to the beginnings of the 2004 TdF, and Phonaks' interactions with the other teams and in particular, Postal, Telekom, and Euskatel and how the favorites were all at the top of their form and ready to do battle.

The Tour organizers like to spice the flat stages with challenges; this year they were serving a generous helping of Belgian cobblestones on stage 3. . . . For the last few years, Postal had treated the front of the race like their own private space. But now that was going to change. Before stage 3, I gathered my Phonak teammates and told them the goal. Todos juntos adelante— all together, all to the front.

Approaching the first big cobblestone section, the race started to get chaotic. The road was narrowing, our speed was increasing, and the number of riders at the front was multiplying: us, Postal, Mayo’s Euskaltels, Ullrich’s T-Mobile team. About nine kilometers from the cobbles, we decided to go for it: todos juntos adelante. Postal tried to reply, and one of their guys, Benjamin Noval, touched handlebars with someone else, and there was a crash. . . .

Lance was furious. But there wasn’t anything he could do about it. We were every bit as strong as Postal, which we proved the following day at the team time trial. . . .

Tyler then describes how he discovered what the UCI meeting had been about and why it had taken place:

The next day, early in the race, Floyd Landis and I were riding next to each
other. I still liked Floyd, and I think he felt the same about me. We shot the breeze for a minute.

Then Floyd looked around. “You need to know something.” I pulled in closer. Floyd’s Mennonite conscience was bothering him. “Lance called the UCI on you,” he said. “He called Hein, after Ventoux. Said you guys and Mayo were on some new sh!t, told Hein to get you. He knew they’d called you in. He’s been talking sh!t nonstop. And I think it’s right that you know.”

For a second, I was confused— how did Floyd know the UCI had called me in? I’d told no one about the meeting; only Haven and a couple people in Phonak management knew. But Floyd knew. Because, I realized, Lance had told him.

I don’t get mad very often. But when I do it’s for real: time slows down and I can feel myself rising out of myself, almost like I’m looking down on this other person through a red mist. Now it all made sense: the trip to Aigle, the weird meeting with Dr.Zorzoli. It had all been because of Lance. Lance had called the UCI on June 10, the day I’d beaten him on Ventoux, the same date they told me to come in, the same date of the warning letter they’d sent to Girona.

Lance called Hein, and Hein called me.

The bike race seemed to disappear. I felt years of pent-up anger cracking loose inside me. I felt heat, rising up.

Lance called the UCI on you.

Told Hein to get you.

He’s been talking sh!t nonstop.

I rode up next to Lance. Together again, a few inches apart. He could see I was ****ed, so he opened his mouth to say something. He didn’t get far.

—Shut the f#ck up, Lance, you piece of sh!t, shut the f#ck up. I know you. I know what you did. I know you’ve been ratting me out, talking sh!t about our team. Worry about yourself, because we’re going to f#cking kill you.

Lance’s eyes got wide. “It’s not true. I never f#cking said a word. Who told you that? I didn’t say anything like that. Who said it? Who the f#ck said I did?”

—Never mind who said it. You know it’s true.

A circle slowly widened around us. He was almost frantic; he insisted he was innocent, and wanted to know who’d told me.

“I didn’t say f#cking anything. Who said I did? Who? F#cking tell me who.”

I didn’t say a word.

“Who? Tell me who. Who?”

—F#ck you, Lance. I felt like I’d been waiting to say those three words for the past six years. I rode off and joined my teammates. At the front.

The book is filled with detail upon detail of all kinds of interesting stuff. I don't know how much of it is true and I'm only about 3/4's of the way through it so far, but it's a pretty interesting view from at least Hamilton's perspective.

 

[Brad Lamb]

Not from Tyler's book but from the VN interview with him and Dan Coyle:

That, to me, is maybe the most important revelation there is to be made - the myth of the "they were all doping so it was a level playing field anyway". I wonder what cycling would've looked like - and who would've been the big guns - if the peloton had been clean over the past 20 years.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/exclusive-qa-with-secret-race-authors_237632/6

Easy. Christophe Bassons, aka Tour de France Champion. Snag is, some bastard ruined that.

 

[taiwan]

Dang I must read this.

 

[Microchip]

Projection - Hallmark of the narcissist

Yes.

And I find it noteworthy that he isn't publicly attacking Hamilton's character as he usually does.

 

[Microchip]

I doubt Armstrong actually knows right from wrong.

Is that all he had to say?

It's all I can find so I'm supposing 'Yes'.

 

[MacRoadie]

“Writing a book today about events that allegedly took place more than 10 years ago is not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong. It is greedy, opportunistic and self-serving.”

Not "fabricated events", not even "alleged events", just "events". Guess they must have happened then.

 

[Benotti69]

It's all I can find so I'm supposing 'Yes'.

Thanks Microchip.

 

[QuickStepper]

I just had to laugh when I read this given all the arguing we went though about UCI vs. USADA jurisdiction in the Lance vs. USADA threads.

In this passage of the book, Tyler describes how, 29 days after the Olympics, he is notified by the UCI that his blood samples taken during the 2004 Tour of Spain showed the presence of someone else's blood.

We all knew the protocol: the testers take two samples, an A sample and a B sample. My A sample had tested positive; the B sample hadn’t yet been tested. If the tests matched— and they almost always did— then I was officially, publicly positive, automatically suspended, and would have to fight the test with USADA, the anti-doping organization that has jurisdiction over every American professional cyclist.

C'mon.... the UCI did theses tests, and the UCI was going to be doing "results management", and the tests were done in Europe, in Switzerland, not the US. So what role would USADA have in this? Tyler went to Switzerland to fight with the UCI's lab analysis of not only his Vuelta B sample but also a sample from the Athens Olympics that also showed a positive. Any appeal of the UCI's findings would have been before CAS, not USADA, right? The bolded line just seems like such a throwaway, so gratuitous, and so calculated to plant in the mind of the reader the false notion that USADA has jurisdiction over all doping charges, no matter where they arise or who does the initial testing. And that's just not the case under the WADA Code or the UCI's ADR.

I'm guessing this is coming from Coyle and not Hamilton. I find it just as bad as the silly PR stuff Armstrong's people engage in; this is just a lot more subtle, but still just as wrong IMHO.

 

[Kennf1]

How interesting that Armstrong's reply to the book does NOT say that it's a pack of lies. Just that it's greedy and self-serving to talk about things more than 10 years after they happened. Should have mine by early next week!

“Writing a book today about events that allegedly took place more than 10 years ago is not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong. It is greedy, opportunistic and self-serving.”

I'm surprised he's speaking that harshly about Sally Jenkins.

 

[ElChingon]

I just had to laugh when I read this given all the arguing we went though about UCI vs. USADA jurisdiction in the Lance vs. USADA threads.

In this passage of the book, Tyler describes how, 29 days after the Olympics, he is notified by the UCI that his blood samples taken during the 2004 TdF showed the presence of someone else's blood.

...

C'mon....if the UCI did the test, and the UCI was going to be doing "results management", and the tests were done in Europe, not the US, what role would USADA have in this, perhaps except to do whatever additional investigation might be needed in the US? Any appeal of the UCI's findings would have been before CAS, not USADA, right? The bolded line just seems like such a throwaway, so gratuitous, and so calculated to plant in the mind of the reader the false notion that USADA has jurisdiction over all doping charges, no matter where they arise or who does the initial testing. And that's just not the case under the WADA Code or the UCI's ADR.

I'm guessing this is coming from Coyle and not Hamilton. I find it just as bad as the silly PR stuff Armstrong's people engage in; this is just a lot more subtle, but still just as wrong IMHO.

Its all BS on how they do things, or they just apply it as they see fit. The number of odd dealings with non-negative results has always been a guess, one rider fired instantly and the other gets to go on racing till they finally get their act together, some are pre-banned with only hints of an infraction, others continue to ride even when their DS's say they had doped

 

[the big ring]

Yes, there is a very detailed narrative about this episode.

The book is filled with detail upon detail of all kinds of interesting stuff. I don't know how much of it is true and I'm only about 3/4's of the way through it so far, but it's a pretty interesting view from at least Hamilton's perspective.

Thanks. Spoilers shouldn't matter too much - we all know how it ends, and I'd enjoy reading that a few more times at least. That is incredible.

I hope Tyler makes a mint on this book. An absolute mint.

 

[Benotti69]

I just had to laugh when I read this given all the arguing we went though about UCI vs. USADA jurisdiction in the Lance vs. USADA threads.

In this passage of the book, Tyler describes how, 29 days after the Olympics, he is notified by the UCI that his blood samples taken during the 2004 Tour of Spain showed the presence of someone else's blood.



C'mon.... the UCI did theses tests, and the UCI was going to be doing "results management", and the tests were done in Europe, in Switzerland, not the US. So what role would USADA have in this? Tyler went to Switzerland to fight with the UCI's lab analysis of not only his Vuelta B sample but also a sample from the Athens Olympics that also showed a positive. Any appeal of the UCI's findings would have been before CAS, not USADA, right? The bolded line just seems like such a throwaway, so gratuitous, and so calculated to plant in the mind of the reader the false notion that USADA has jurisdiction over all doping charges, no matter where they arise or who does the initial testing. And that's just not the case under the WADA Code or the UCI's ADR.

I'm guessing this is coming from Coyle and not Hamilton. I find it just as bad as the silly PR stuff Armstrong's people engage in; this is just a lot more subtle, but still just as wrong IMHO.

Why would the UCI be doing the testing at the Olympics?

The IOC test at the Olympics. The results are sent to the various federations.

USADA is responsible for implementation of the World Anti-Doping Code in the United States.