Tyler's Testimony?

[BillytheKid]

Well few takers. So to answer my own question, the sport is at a vulnerable crossroads. Widespread carnage hurts an already damaged sport. Time to circle the wagons again… The Armstrong news cannot be ignored. It is too big a story. There are some bombshells in Tyler's testimony, but I doubt it will go anywhere now. Which is bad news for the clinicians.

Big money drove the USPS machine and Armstrong's to me is the classic example of big fame being handed to a young and willing athlete who's could not control self-destructive behavior especially the desire for more in the comeback. Such is fame. Most of the press never seemed interested in this angle. The arrival of EPO added to it's heights of distruction, but there is the chance that his fall could turn things around. Despite it all.

I still don't agree with the "plea deal" method in which this was achieved. Although those not signed to USADA have no worries. For the rest, such a standard could lead to people being outed for less than honest reasons by those just as guilty. Let's hope not.

As far as the way stories are played by the press here and there. It pays to be well read if you have the time as many that post here are. I don't always have the time. Differences in reporting will always exist so I am not jumping on one or the others head here, but I could not pass this one up.

CN buried the story in my opinion. VN played it a little longer and better in this case. New news here today, and it all rolls on. VN now with a little egg on the face for reporting from "a source" that the feds "not likely" to join the whistle blower case. They will never trust that source again.

A published transcript of Tyler's testimony would be nice. Any takers?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well few takers. So to answer my own question, the sport is at a vulnerable crossroads. Widespread carnage hurts an already damaged sport. Time to circle the wagons again… The Armstrong news cannot be ignored. It is too big a story. There are some bombshells in Tyler's testimony, but I doubt it will go anywhere now. Which is bad news for the clinicians.

Big money drove the USPS machine and Armstrong's to me is the classic example of big fame being handed to a young and willing athlete who's could not control self-destructive behavior especially the desire for more in the comeback. Such is fame. Most of the press never seemed interested in this angle. The arrival of EPO added to it's heights of distruction, but there is the chance that his fall could turn things around. Despite it all.

I still don't agree with the "plea deal" method in which this was achieved. Although those not signed to USADA have no worries. For the rest, such a standard could lead to people being outed for less than honest reasons by those just as guilty. Let's hope not.

About the only thing worthwhile discussing from the above is to ask whats a "vulnerable crossroads"?

As far as the way stories are played by the press here and there. It pays to be well read if you have the time as many that post here are. I don't always have the time. Differences in reporting will always exist so I am not jumping on one or the others head here, but I could not pass this one up.

CN buried the story in my opinion. VN played it a little longer and better in this case. New news here today, and it all rolls on. VN now with a little egg on the face for reporting from "a source" that the feds "not likely" to join the whistle blower case. They will never trust that source again.

A published transcript of Tyler's testimony would be nice. Any takers?

Everything (and more) that Tyler said has been covered in his book. If you do not want to buy it or read, then don't complain that you are uninformed.

He also covered most of his testimony in his USADA affidavit including Riis- but again it seems you didn't want to read that either and as for CN burying the story maybe its because they covered it when it was first reported and relevant last November;
Riis under pressure after further Hamilton revelations.


It seems you want a Fox News style *Breaking News* type 1 minute outrage piece to discuss someones doping.

 

[BillytheKid]

About the only thing worthwhile discussing from the above is to ask whats a "vulnerable crossroads"?



Everything (and more) that Tyler said has been covered in his book. If you do not want to buy it or read, then don't complain that you are uninformed.

He also covered most of his testimony in his USADA affidavit including Riis- but again it seems you didn't want to read that either and as for CN burying the story maybe its because they covered it when it was first reported and relevant last November;
Riis under pressure after further Hamilton revelations.


It seems you want a Fox News style *Breaking News* type 1 minute outrage piece to discuss someones doping.

Hi Doc,

Fox! That hurts. But despite their low-budget cast of characters even they can offer POV lacking elsewhere sometimes, but they do it over and over and over and over and over. Not unlike posting sometimes, eh.

I assume you language of origin is English, so you would understand the latter. The adjective could be considered redundant, but I'll explain it to you if your are in need of understanding.

Bad press and widening scandal are becoming costly to the sport. So to shorten what I thought was obvious…"vulnerable crossroads."

No time to mix it up today.

So I'll give you the last word. (Ha, ha)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hi Doc,

Fox! That hurts. But despite their low-budget cast of characters even they can offer POV lacking elsewhere sometimes, but they do it over and over and overand over and over. Not unlike posting sometimes, eh.

I assume you language of origin is English, so you would understand the latter. The adjective could be considered redundant, but I'll explain it to you if your are in need of understanding.

Bad press and widening scandal are becoming costly to the sport. So to shorten what I thought was obvious…"vulnerable crossroads."

No time to mix it up today.

So I'll give yo the last word. (Ha, ha)

"Becoming"? Where have you been the last 15 years?

You appear to be of a view that some apocalyptic (is that better than your amusing mixed metaphors?) scenario is going to befall cycling because of 'widening scandals'. The sport has been struggling for years.

Do you think that people in China will walk instead of cycle as a protest? Santa tells his elves not to make bikes so as not to corrupt the young? The government will ban bikes?

For me the sport will be at its lowest point when overall numbers of racing license numbers are low, sponsors come and go, teams fold, races fold, no stability in the sport and no confidence in the authorities - it has been at that point for years now.

 

[del1962]

Article on tylers testimony from Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/drugsinsport/9880619/Tyler-Hamilton-tells-court-in-Eufemiano-Fuentes-trial-he-was-once-reinfused-with-own-blood-by-former-cyclist.html

At the end of hs testimony the judge asked if he had anything else to add. Hamilton said: “yeah, sorry for breaking the rules”.

 

[BillytheKid]

"Becoming"? Where have you been the last 15 years?

You appear to be of a view that some apocalyptic (is that better than your amusing mixed metaphors?) scenario is going to befall cycling because of 'widening scandals'. The sport has been struggling for years.

Do you think that people in China will walk instead of cycle as a protest? Santa tells his elves not to make bikes so as not to corrupt the young? The government will ban bikes?

For me the sport will be at its lowest point when overall numbers of racing license numbers are low, sponsors come and go, teams fold, races fold, no stability in the sport and no confidence in the authorities - it has been at that point for years now.

Tick Tock goes the Doc. I appreciate your historical outlook, but, of course I think it out of context terms of current events. I will admit that it could have been defined better, but again I assumed what I thought the obivious. I'll have a good look at the link that del has provided. It looks as though we have a taker...for better or worse.

 

[DirtyWorks]

For me the sport will be at its lowest point when overall numbers of racing license numbers are low, sponsors come and go, teams fold, races fold, no stability in the sport and no confidence in the authorities - it has been at that point for years now.

But, but, but Doc!!! The money! Hein and Pat have "grown cycling." Not in a way that you, or the vast majority of enthusiasts, be they active cyclists or not, would like. But there's way more money in it and more money coming.

Check this cool scam out:
"We sent an inquiry to the UCI, but it turned out that we had to pay seven million euros to a private company for the license for the Tour of Russia,” Makarov, who has full government support on the matter, said in a press statement.

THAT is what "growing the sport" means to Pat and Hein. The doping is just a distraction. How many ways does $7 million Euro get split? None of which appears to go to the UCI.

http://www.sport.co.uk/cycling/finance-is-the-only-thing-stopping-russia-tour-claims-igor-m/3777314/

 

[BillytheKid]

Article on tylers testimony from Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/drugsinsport/9880619/Tyler-Hamilton-tells-court-in-Eufemiano-Fuentes-trial-he-was-once-reinfused-with-own-blood-by-former-cyclist.html

Not bad, but the Phonak details are scant, and the tone of the lead line? Hamilton the drug cheat? Was he not the hero just the other day? I do admit I read The Telegraph only on brief occasion, so I have no real context to how they've reported on him in the past. I am still waiting for cycling press go for it, but Dirty is unfortunately right. The show goes on.

Alberto Contador is now not testifying! That's a story in and of itself, but here it appears in the last graphs buried way down bottom.

Also former AC teammate Angel Vicioso at Liberty Seguros has a medical excuse and won't testify. Hmmmm?

"What I need is a good judge."
Lucky Ned rides on?

Dirty Works such is the nature of things. Reading history is a curse. I could be one of the blissfully deceived…if only to look at it with the eyes of my youth, but it is time to walk away from this mess.

Press reports please.

 

[Cimber]

in his testemony in court Fuentes contradicts Hamilton. Fuentes says he had nothing to do with Riis.

http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/fuentes-frikender-riis-har-aldrig-haft-noget-med-ham-at-goere
(in Danish)

 

[xrayvision]

in his testemony in court Fuentes contradicts Hamilton. Fuentes says he had nothing to do with Riis.

http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/fuentes-frikender-riis-har-aldrig-haft-noget-med-ham-at-goere
(in Danish)

And it could very well be true. Can´t see what reason Fuentes would have to lie about this, and also suggest Hamilton could have financial interests in making the claim. Cant rule it out for sure.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Tyler - don't you just love him - WADA

Just went to the WADA site to see what they said about Fuentes and this "sugar coated apple pie" story was a link. Just about had me puking.

Tyler Hamilton meets with WADA and visits elementary school

Tyler Hamilton, a former professional cyclist who was part of the US Postal Service Team doping scandal, was in Montreal last week to meet with WADA to help shed more light on doping practices.

A few years ago, Hamilton admitted that he had used banned substances during his racing career and has since been collaborating with relevant authorities in support of doping investigations.

Hamilton met with the WADA Education Committee to provide information that will further assist in the development of effective anti-doping education programs. “Tyler’s open and honest approach to his past experiences provided valuable insight on how we can be more effective in preventing the use of doping,” said Education Committee Chair Ed Jurith (pictured on the left).

Tyler Hamilton also visited a local elementary school to answer questions about his experience and to speak about the perils of cheating and doping in sport.

http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/tyler-hamilton-meets-with-wada-and-visits-elementary-school/

Yes it was sooo touching. Tears rolled down my cheeks. He told them all how to do it. Firstly you find out who the boss dog is and suck up to them big style. Find out how they cheat and do it just like them. On their coat-tails, make a shed load of money. If there is any rubbish going on, you are ok, you are in the shadow of Mr big so if there are some big hits, he will take them. If you get caught, don't worry too much. Take a look at that kid alongside with the runny nose, kids like that believe anything you tell them and even smarter ones will believe any nonsense provided it comes from a doctor or somebody "professional". You need to be smart. Most grown ups are real dumb. You will need to spend a bit of your money bribing a "professional" to lie for you. I got off my head with a mate one night and we came up with this scam about my mum having a phantom twin who never was born. I had everyone going for it. It is loads better than watching any comedy film. Oh and buy a cute pet or two and have lots of very cute pictures taken with it. If it dies all the better, get pictures taken with you nursing its bandaged paw. Anyway, if they get you again, then don't break out into a sweat. Plea bargin and sell the boss dog to them. This is the critical phase, it needs lots of media priming so you keep the sympathy rolling with you and enough time has passed so nobody remembers all that whacky stuff you came up with as excuses before. Then exactly when they go for boss dog, have your book ready to go. It will be a cash mine. If it all goes well you are then set for life and can live out your days visiting kids in school telling them rubbish like "cheat's don't prosper and you need to tell the truth - you know its best" Now let me tell you about my best mate at the cycling club when I was 14. He was actually better than me. He told me he would never do drugs, and you know what, he never did. He works in retail now, he has two week-ends a month off, he has a 30 year mortgage.................


When will the guys at the top of the system ever get it. Tyler is no poster boy for clean riding. He is the living antithesis of any message that needs to go to these children. Fundamentally, the punishment has not fitted the crime.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Just went to the WADA site to see what they said about Fuentes and this "sugar coated apple pie" story was a link. Just about had me puking.

Tyler Hamilton meets with WADA and visits elementary school

Tyler Hamilton, a former professional cyclist who was part of the US Postal Service Team doping scandal, was in Montreal last week to meet with WADA to help shed more light on doping practices.

A few years ago, Hamilton admitted that he had used banned substances during his racing career and has since been collaborating with relevant authorities in support of doping investigations.

Hamilton met with the WADA Education Committee to provide information that will further assist in the development of effective anti-doping education programs. “Tyler’s open and honest approach to his past experiences provided valuable insight on how we can be more effective in preventing the use of doping,” said Education Committee Chair Ed Jurith (pictured on the left).

Tyler Hamilton also visited a local elementary school to answer questions about his experience and to speak about the perils of cheating and doping in sport.

http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/tyler-hamilton-meets-with-wada-and-visits-elementary-school/

Yes it was sooo touching. Tears rolled down my cheeks. He told them all how to do it. Firstly you find out who the boss dog is and suck up to them big style. Find out how they cheat and do it just like them. On their coat-tails, make a shed load of money. If there is any rubbish going on, you are ok, you are in the shadow of Mr big so if there are some big hits, he will take them. If you get caught, don't worry too much. Take a look at that kid alongside with the runny nose, kids like that believe anything you tell them and even smarter ones will believe any nonsense provided it comes from a doctor or somebody "professional". You need to be smart. Most grown ups are real dumb. You will need to spend a bit of your money bribing a "professional" to lie for you. I got off my head with a mate one night and we came up with this scam about my mum having a phantom twin who never was born. I had everyone going for it. It is loads better than watching any comedy film. Oh and buy a cute pet or two and have lots of very cute pictures taken with it. If it dies all the better, get pictures taken with you nursing its bandaged paw. Anyway, if they get you again, then don't break out into a sweat. Plea bargin and sell the boss dog to them. This is the critical phase, it needs lots of media priming so you keep the sympathy rolling with you and enough time has passed so nobody remembers all that whacky stuff you came up with as excuses before. Then exactly when they go for boss dog, have your book ready to go. It will be a cash mine. If it all goes well you are then set for life and can live out your days visiting kids in school telling them rubbish like "cheat's don't prosper and you need to tell the truth - you know its best" Now let me tell you about my best mate at the cycling club when I was 14. He was actually better than me. He told me he would never do drugs, and you know what, he never did. He works in retail now, he has two week-ends a month off, he has a 30 year mortgage.................


When will the guys at the top of the system ever get it. Tyler is no poster boy for clean riding. He is the living antithesis of any message that needs to go to these children. Fundamentally, the punishment has not fitted the crime.

Man, you fanboys hold a grudge...

There's a reason Nancy Reagan's "Just say no" program was a failure.

Reminds me of a line from Raising Arizona "If you want to find an outlaw, you call an outlaw. If you want to find a Dunkin' Donuts, call a cop."

 

[Carols]

Seems to me to be a man who is trying to make amends and teach youth that cheating is the incorrect path to take. Chapeau Tyler!

 

[martinvickers]

Man, you fanboys hold a grudge...

There's a reason Nancy Reagan's "Just say no" program was a failure.

Reminds me of a line from Raising Arizona "If you want to find an outlaw, you call an outlaw. If you want to find a Dunkin' Donuts, call a cop."

Tell me, what's your views on David Millar?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Tell me, what's your views on David Millar?

I think he's smarmy but I don't have a problem with him riding his bike.

 

[martinvickers]

I think he's smarmy but I don't have a problem with him riding his bike.

Fair enough on both counts, I suppose. The obvious reason I raise it is because I find his case to be, essentially, morally little different from Hamilton's.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Fair enough on both counts, I suppose. The obvious reason I raise it is because I find his case to be, essentially, morally little different from Hamilton's.

I don't find, aside from Armstrong because of the added immorality of the legal and PR wars waged, that there is any moral difference between what any of them did.

 

[martinvickers]

I don't find, aside from Armstrong because of the added immorality of the legal and PR wars waged, that there is any moral difference between what any of them did.

I suppose that's also a very fair point. I would only suggest that, in theory at least, a repentant cheat may have some small moral uplift on an unrepentant one...but since we don't know if either Millar or Hamilton are actually repentant, or just playing the part, it'll have to stay theoretical.