UCI in a panic over document in Friday's L'Equipe

[Benotti69]

i dont know how we can establish anything from the list considering we dont know what a corrupt federation like UCI takes into consideration when drawing up such a list and it sure isn't based on testing considering lots dont get tested and some only get tested once twice and get given a suspicion number based on that!

 

[ergmonkey]

maybe I am just the only one, but besides the shlecks, the only thing that i don't understand is = lotto. I mean, a team with no-names with "some sort" of a late-bloomer as leader wining 4 in a row and peaking since February\march until the end of April, with 0 tests?

i am looking forward to him and his team dominating the tour and the month of October.

(giro is another prelude to this)

Zero tests for Lotto is weird, no doubt. Just to clarify, was it zero tests in 2010 or in 2011?

I suppose the flip-side of the Lotto coin is that VDB scored way, way up on the list. Perhaps they aren't going to be given a free pass in the long run. Time will tell.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Definitely. I'm not trying to say the list is meaningless. I especially think the guys in the 5+ range sound like they have a lot to answer for.

And I wouldn't rule out the possibility of some riders in the 0-1 range simply doing a very good job of controlling their doping. I just think it's unfair to single any of those riders out personally when the only evidence is that they aren't "suspicious," and I'm skeptical that scoring a zero instead of a two should count for much of anything.

Some posts earlier, i discussed that topic.
It´s unlikley for most of those riders to bribe the UCI and/or having a armada of hide-the-doping-scientists, simply coz of the lack of money*. So the majority of the 0-1 or say 0-3 surely were "cleanish".

For example Cancellara, he might manipulated his blood down from 3 to 0, as Contador did go from 10 to 5. But i think it´s impossible to go from 10 to 0. Not even Armstrong was capable of doing that.

* We are not talking of NFL-Miollionairs, but cyclists

 

[Benotti69]

Zero tests for Lotto is weird, no doubt. Just to clarify, was it zero tests in 2010 or in 2011?

I suppose the flip-side of the Lotto coin is that VDB scored way, way up on the list. Perhaps they aren't going to be given a free pass in the long run. Time will tell.

to quote the OPLotto doctor, who seems to indicate this year they will be of a higher ranking compared to last year due to no testing between PN and LBL.

Omega Pharma-Lotto was ranked a poor 17th in the list of teams calculated by L’Equipe, with a score of 31 for its riders in the 2010 Tour de France. However team doctor Jan Mathieu predicted that the Omega Pharma-Lotto would be much lower this spring.

“Between Paris-Nice and Liege-Bastogne-Liege, we had no blood monitoring. So we are in the safe zone and will all be around 0." he told Sporza

As i said already, no declaration of outrage that they were 17th and not dopers, but happy that this year their doping ranking will be lower due to no tests, which to me means less suspicion therefore less testing during the TdF so a much better chance to dope and achieve results!!!!!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Zero tests for Lotto is weird, no doubt. Just to clarify, was it zero tests in 2010 or in 2011?

I suppose the flip-side of the Lotto coin is that VDB scored way, way up on the list. Perhaps they aren't going to be given a free pass in the long run. Time will tell.

I think he talked about this classics year. Lotto must have been tested last year coming the TdF. Otherwise VDB wouldn´t have scored a 8.

 

[c&cfan]

Some posts earlier, i discussed that topic.
It´s unlikley for most of those riders to bribe the UCI and/or having a armada of hide-the-doping-scientists, simply coz of the lack of money*. So the majority of the 0-1 or say 0-3 surely were "cleanish".

For example Cancellara, he might manipulated his blood down from 3 to 0, as Contador did go from 10 to 5. But i think it´s impossible to go from 10 to 0. Not even Armstrong was capable of doing that.

* We are not talking of NFL-Miollionairs, but cyclists

i have to disagree, not only is lance a millionaire, but also a prodigy in this subject, never underestimate him

 

[D-Queued]

Seriously, the Lotto thing is ridiculous. The more I learn about doping, the more I'm convinced the current tools would be more than enough to catch most dopers if they were used honestly, fairly and with half a brain.

If we combined Hein and Pat's intellectual capacity we would likely still not be at half a brain.

cancellara was a huge surprise, it gave me hope.
like i said in my previous post, lotto took that hope away from me.

uci is corrupt and they are not smart.

Corrupt? Did someone say corrupt? Since it cannot adequately be documented in a single post, there is a whole thread on UCI favoritism.

Is a huge surprise roughly equivalent to a miracle, or an unbelievable performance?

There are no surprises, miracles or unbelievable performances which do not have an explanation behind them.

Looks like Fabian has even more 'splainin to do.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

If we combined Hein and Pat's intellectual capacity we would likely still not be at half a brain.



Corrupt? Did someone say corrupt? Since it cannot adequately be documented in a single post, there is a whole thread on UCI favoritism.

Is a huge surprise roughly equivalent to a miracle, or an unbelievable performance?

There are no surprises, miracles or unbelievable performances which do not have an explanation behind them.

Looks like Fabian has even more 'splainin to do.

Dave.

Problem with Fabian is no one is truly asking him to 'splain

But yep, for those who are not avid clinic attendees. Check the 'UCi foot in mouth' thread to which the right honourable mr D Q'ed has contributed enormously too and is a catalog of proof of 'no brain' from UCI.

 

[ergmonkey]

Some posts earlier, i discussed that topic.
It´s unlikley for most of those riders to bribe the UCI and/or having a armada of hide-the-doping-scientists, simply coz of the lack of money*. So the majority of the 0-1 or say 0-3 surely were "cleanish".

For example Cancellara, he might manipulated his blood down from 3 to 0, as Contador did go from 10 to 5. But i think it´s impossible to go from 10 to 0. Not even Armstrong was capable of doing that.

* We are not talking of NFL-Miollionairs, but cyclists

I mostly agree. The only thing I'd point out is that the wealth gaps in cycling can be pretty tremendous. A small group of riders can probably make millions--guys like Armstrong, Contador, Boonen, Valverde, Cancellara*--but the vast majority of riders probably consider themselves lucky to crack six-figures on a regular basis. So, I don't want to generalize about the level of medical assistance pro cyclists might be able to buy.

*I am presenting this only as a list of big-earners and not necessarily as a list of big-dopers

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

i have to disagree, not only is lance a millionaire, but also a prodigy in this subject, never underestimate him

You got me wrong. Armstrong is, of course. And even he couldn´t manipulate down from 10 to 0.

I am talking about the majority of the 0-3 guys, who don´t have the money backround to achieve a doping-master-guru-hide-plan.
Take Gadret. He´s at 2. What does he earn? Maybe 200.000 USD. I don´t know. But he certainly can´t afford to bribe or pay scientists to get his score from 10 to 2. More likely from 3 to 2. I think he´s cleanish, sukks in TT (which is a good sign), finishes 19th in CG on a "cleanish" team. All that shows me, that it´s possible to survive with results in a GT.

 

[Benotti69]

You got me wrong. Armstrong is, of course. And even he couldn´t manipulate down from 10 to 0.

I am talking about the majority of the 0-3 guys, who don´t have the money backround to achieve a doping-master-guru-hide-plan.
Take Gadret. He´s at 2. What does he earn? Maybe 200.000 USD. I don´t know. But he certainly can´t afford to bribe or pay scientists to get his score from 10 to 2. More likely from 3 to 2. I think he´s cleanish, sukks in TT (which is a good sign), finishes 19th in CG on a "cleanish" team. All that shows me, that it´s possible to survive with results in a GT.

At that stage Gunderson had a dark cloud appear over him, so no the UCI is not loyal to anyone in that kind of knee deep faeces. It happens to have now risen to his neck, so this year had he chosen to keep riding it might be an 11 alongside Riccó

 

[roundabout]

If we combined Hein and Pat's intellectual capacity we would likely still not be at half a brain.



Corrupt? Did someone say corrupt? Since it cannot adequately be documented in a single post, there is a whole thread on UCI favoritism.

Is a huge surprise roughly equivalent to a miracle, or an unbelievable performance?

There are no surprises, miracles or unbelievable performances which do not have an explanation behind them.

Looks like Fabian has even more 'splainin to do.

Dave.

'splainin what? That he is 2 levels above every other doper in hiding his drug use? What is he going to say, admit that he is doping or that tests are inadequate? What exactly?

And why should Cancellara be explaining anything and not,say, the people testing him?

 

[ergmonkey]

Problem with Fabian is no one is truly asking him to 'splain

What, like explain his association with Dr. Cecchini?

In fact, how does a known link to a Cecchini/Ferrari/Fuentes/pick-your-favorite-dodgy-doctor-here not at least score you a single point on the UCI "suspicion" list?

 

[D-Queued]

I mostly agree. The only thing I'd point out is that the wealth gaps in cycling can be pretty tremendous. A small group of riders can probably make millions--guys like Armstrong, Contador, Boonen, Valverde, Cancellara*--but the vast majority of riders probably consider themselves lucky to crack six-figures on a regular basis. So, I don't want to generalize about the level of medical assistance pro cyclists might be able to buy.

*I am presenting this only as a list of big-earners and not necessarily as a list of big-dopers

Boonen is just a coke head. Remove his name, and you can remove the asterisk from that list.

Dave.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I mostly agree. The only thing I'd point out is that the wealth gaps in cycling can be pretty tremendous. A small group of riders can probably make millions--guys like Armstrong, Contador, Boonen, Valverde, Cancellara*--but the vast majority of riders probably consider themselves lucky to crack six-figures on a regular basis. So, I don't want to generalize about the level of medical assistance pro cyclists might be able to buy.

*I am presenting this only as a list of big-earners and not necessarily as a list of big-dopers

As in every other sport. Only the winners get paid (which i absolutely don´t like).

Anyway, i see you got my point. It´s safe to say, the field got cleaner. The french riders have a chance again, time gaps are closing, attacks come later, climbers climb, TTlers time trial. Until the next big drug, we see a somehow leveld field. Enjoy the ride until the 90s come back.

 

[Benotti69]

I mostly agree. The only thing I'd point out is that the wealth gaps in cycling can be pretty tremendous. A small group of riders can probably make millions--guys like Armstrong, Contador, Boonen, Valverde, Cancellara*--but the vast majority of riders probably consider themselves lucky to crack six-figures on a regular basis. So, I don't want to generalize about the level of medical assistance pro cyclists might be able to buy.

*I am presenting this only as a list of big-earners and not necessarily as a list of big-dopers

but that presumes everyone has to look after their own. i doubt that and the teams are still running programs and paying for them. no point in having the team leader on a program if his domestiques cant do anything for him. Definitely not everyone on the same program, due to $$$ but i reckon they have 'training camps' for this type of stuff.

 

[Benotti69]

As in every other sport. Only the winners get paid (which i absolutely don´t like).

Anyway, i see you got my point. It´s safe to say, the field got cleaner. The french riders have a chance again, time gaps are closing, attacks come later, climbers climb, TTlers time trial. Until the next big drug, we see a somehow leveld field. Enjoy the ride until the 90s come back.

for me the field didn't get cleaner. the doping got more controlled and less depending on who is testing and that level is set lower than the 50%, but i imagine at UCI only races they can go wild, like the ToC for instance.

 

[ergmonkey]

Boonen is just a coke head.
Dave.

Boonen is "just a coke head" in the same way that Eddy Merckx is "just a cyclist."

Give the man his due; and pray to God that you can one day find yourself on his post-Roubaix party bus.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

At that stage Gunderson had a dark cloud appear over him, so no the UCI is not loyal to anyone in that kind of knee deep faeces. It happens to have now risen to his neck, so this year had he chosen to keep riding it might be an 11 alongside Riccó

Love it....

Anyway. Look at 2009. His world was perfect, and in his arrogance he put his blood profiles on the Internet where a danish Blood-Expert showed the irregularities of his blood between the Giro and the TdF. Even that time he couldn´t manipulate himself down to zero. I guess he was officialy a good 8 back then, coz even "3rd-League-Scientists" (is that the words Armstrong used?) could find his manipulations.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

for me the field didn't get cleaner. the doping got more controlled and less depending on who is testing and that level is set lower than the 50%, but i imagine at UCI only races they can go wild, like the ToC for instance.

If i got you right, you mean "micro-doping"?

I think that´s the max we can get. Micro-Doping by feared riders. We should be satisfied. No old heavy TT-Guy is winning the TdF anymore. I think we are on a 80s level, where talent makes 90% of the Final-CG. I enjoy the time, coz darker days will come (gene doping) where some obscure guys will start all over again to fly up the mountains. I hope we still have some good 5 years in front of us, before the final curtain falls.

 

[Race Radio]

Willy Voet:

"The thing which worked above all else when going to the dope control was to be one of the greats. Like borrowing from a bank which only lends money to the rich, and which gives flowers to its best customers, a famous cyclist had a lot more chance of dodging the system. That's how it is, the effects of celebrity extend to the edge of a toilet seat in a dope-control caravan. Even the doctors would be impressed at the thought of being with one of the stars, if only for a few minutes: time for an autograph, a handshake, a kind word, a smile. A star could be caught red-handed and not have to pay the price."

Soon, Very soon, we will know how true this statement is.

 

[D-Queued]

Boonen is "just a coke head" in the same way that Eddy Merckx is "just a cyclist."

Give the man his due; and pray to God that you can one day find yourself on his post-Roubaix party bus.

I think I was expecting some 'snorts' of laughter from the suggestion.

Dave.

 

[Polish]

Soon, Very soon, we will know how true this statement is.

I hear it will happen Thursday.
Well, if not Thursday, at least before the Amgen Tour of California Apres Party begins next Sunday.
Or before the party ends.

C'mon RR. You have been saying "soon" for a year now.
soon soon soon soon son soon.
Yes, it WILL happen.
But you were wrong on the "soon" part many times over.

Of course, when it DOES finally happen, you will be the first to say "I told you so" lol.

And Lance will say "I've been expecting you - what took you so long" lol again.

 

[El Pistolero]

to quote the OPLotto doctor, who seems to indicate this year they will be of a higher ranking compared to last year due to no testing between PN and LBL.



As i said already, no declaration of outrage that they were 17th and not dopers, but happy that this year their doping ranking will be lower due to no tests, which to me means less suspicion therefore less testing during the TdF so a much better chance to dope and achieve results!!!!!

They have been tested, just no blood monitoring.

Winner gets automatically tested in World Tour events. I'm pretty sure Philippe Gilbert has been tested a lot more than Fabian Cancellara.

 

[theswordsman]

Barredo's lawyers are considering legal action against the UCI over the list, and say that as "Public Enemy Number One" he hasn't been tested for the Biological Passport since October 2.

http://www.marca.com/2011/05/14/cic...55e5dceb4f3821cd80c6712d632df4a3&t=1305410497

"We therefore believe that the credibility problem is in the ICU and its system, not cyclists," he says. 'Celio Sport & Image' "examine the possibilities of legal action in conjunction with the brokers to seek compensation for damages" because in his opinion "these serious accusations have an enormous impact on cyclists and their environment, their family , friends and colleagues and other staff within their teams. "