UCI, McQuaid & Verbruggen in lawsuit against Landis

[hrotha]

"Operation Honey Badger" is hilarious, you gotta admit.

 

[Race Radio]

Are you suggesting that someone who is criticizing others for bespeaking ignorance about jurisdiction is doing so himself?

Heck, I just thought it was a thinly veiled agenda to vilify Floyd.

Dave.

At this point the amount of craptastic missinformation being spewed about Floyd makes one wonder if it is intentional or the result of some chemical imbalance.

 

[Big GMaC]

http://twitter.com/#!/imhoneybadger

 

[MarkvW]

imbalance

At this point the amount of craptastic missinformation being spewed about Floyd makes one wonder if it is intentional or the result of some chemical imbalance.

This lawsuit doesn't make any sense for either side. It is an absurd joke. Pardon me for enjoying the absurdity.

The UCI cannot stand the bad publicity. Their 'barrier to entry' is not all that high. They fail to realize that they could be supplanted by a rival entity and McQuaid might have to give up his Swiss house. They get bonus points by remaining aloof from juvenile bs. They lose points by engaging in fights with broke, unemployed disgraced former riders. They look like a bully--and they are a bully. The only worry of an anti-doping advocate would be that the UCI gets replaced by an organization dominated by people like Saiz and Bruyneel. The UCI is a lot like Austria-Hungary in that regard. It is an unimpressive buffer that protects the sport from the people we REALLY don't want to see running the sport. It also looks wrong--DEAD WRONG--for the UCI to be spending its money in a manner that benefits its leader and former leader. That reeks of conflict of interest to me. In my mind, the only way Floyd wins is if saner forces within the UCI compel its rogue leadership to start acting like grown ups. Will they? CAN they? This lawsuit is really bad pub for the UCI.

I am truly on the fence about the protected rider allegations Floyd makes. He has yet to divulge his source for those allegations, and he is a liar. I'd be foolish to accept him at face value. OTOH, the circumstantial evidence of favoritism or unequal treatment truly deprives the UCI of the benefit of any doubt. As far as the USPS allegations go, I totally believe him.

I acknowledge my anti-Floyd bias. Floyd could redeem himself with an aggressive and responsible defense of the lawsuit that isn't just a mere 'you don't have jurisdiction' argument. Will we see that from Floyd? Not likely.

 

[Anonymous]

This lawsuit doesn't make any sense for either side. It is an absurd joke. Pardon me for enjoying the absurdity.

The UCI cannot stand the bad publicity. Their 'barrier to entry' is not all that high. They fail to realize that they could be supplanted by a rival entity and McQuaid might have to give up his Swiss house. They get bonus points by remaining aloof from juvenile bs. They lose points by engaging in fights with broke, unemployed disgraced former riders. They look like a bully--and they are a bully. The only worry of an anti-doping advocate would be that the UCI gets replaced by an organization dominated by people like Saiz and Bruyneel. The UCI is a lot like Austria-Hungary in that regard. It is an unimpressive buffer that protects the sport from the people we REALLY don't want to see running the sport. It also looks wrong--DEAD WRONG--for the UCI to be spending its money in a manner that benefits its leader and former leader. That reeks of conflict of interest to me. In my mind, the only way Floyd wins is if saner forces within the UCI compel its rogue leadership to start acting like grown ups. Will they? CAN they? This lawsuit is really bad pub for the UCI.

I am truly on the fence about the protected rider allegations Floyd makes. He has yet to divulge his source for those allegations, and he is a liar. I'd be foolish to accept him at face value. OTOH, the circumstantial evidence of favoritism or unequal treatment truly deprives the UCI of the benefit of any doubt. As far as the USPS allegations go, I totally believe him.

I acknowledge my anti-Floyd bias. Floyd could redeem himself with an aggressive and responsible defense of the lawsuit that isn't just a mere 'you don't have jurisdiction' argument. Will we see that from Floyd? Not likely.

I think he sees his source every time he looks in the mirror.

 

[webvan]

He's less funny on twitter than here http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2011/landis-emails for sure

 

[MarkvW]

huh?

I think he sees his source every time he looks in the mirror.

Well, if Floyd is the source, he could give a first hand account of the fix. All we get from him is a conclusory statement and a bunch of talk about how he now has to depose the peloton. He's keeping his account of the fix secret? Why?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Well, if Floyd is the source, he could give a first hand account of the fix. All we get from him is a conclusory statement and a bunch of talk about how he now has to depose the peloton. He's keeping his account of the fix secret? Why?

Right of the top of my head, I'd say there's an appropriate venue for some information. For some information the courts are the best venue.

On top of that, if you have been around for a while you understand the power and may have seen the effects of controlling the release of information. Divulging a source that isn't him doesn't make his case any better. That should be obvious.

Finally, the quantity of doubt you are trying to generate isn't valid in this situation. A funny thing about doping is, it seems the simplest answers tends to be the one that turns out to be true.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, if Floyd is the source, he could give a first hand account of the fix. All we get from him is a conclusory statement and a bunch of talk about how he now has to depose the peloton. He's keeping his account of the fix secret? Why?

Why would he need to reveal what he knows now?

You yourself have admitted that it would be stupid of the UCI to go through with this case.
Floyds answer is a counter threat to the UCI - 'you go after me and I will depose people'.

Expect the UCI to blink first.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It also looks wrong--DEAD WRONG--for the UCI to be spending its money in a manner that benefits its leader and former leader. That reeks of conflict of interest to me.

That's the UCI in a nutshell.

In my mind, the only way Floyd wins is if saner forces within the UCI compel its rogue leadership to start acting like grown ups. Will they? CAN they? This lawsuit is really bad pub for the UCI.

What 'saner forces' are there at the UCI? It's a feudal system.

The lawsuit itself will never get far enough for anything incriminating to make it into the public domain. They want to keep generating legal bills for Floyd. That's all.

 

[DirtyWorks]

At this point the amount of craptastic missinformation being spewed about Floyd makes one wonder if it is intentional or the result of some chemical imbalance.

Definitely intentional.

 

[MarkvW]

deposition are expensive

Why would he need to reveal what he knows now?

You yourself have admitted that it would be stupid of the UCI to go through with this case.
Floyds answer is a counter threat to the UCI - 'you go after me and I will depose people'.

Expect the UCI to blink first.

But depositions are expensive! Assuming Floyd's not lying about his lawyers in the wings, Floyd will have to pay his lawyers expenses for international travel, as well as the cost of multiple depositions themselves. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars minimum.

Remember Floyd's BS rhetoric before the CAS hearing? Why is this talk any different? If Floyd wants to win, he'll lie to do it. Note that he has never apologized for all the lying about doping that he did throughout his career.

Floyd's gotta draw blood before the UCI blinks. If he's got sugar daddies, then we're going to have a good show! Otherwise, it's just Floyd lying again.

 

[zigmeister]

If McQuaid and these boneheads are going to file this suit, then they should just file any suit against anyone who has doped. In essence, they are defaming the UCI and the sport with positive test results which the general public has now become to associate doping/cycling as non-mutually exclusive.

 

[mmedeast]

http://www.sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6478523

Floyd says he's broke and unemployed. He says he also is going to defend vigorously. If that is the truth, then Floyd already has defense money lined up. If that is blowing smoke (and hoping he can get more people to give him money), then Floyd is lying--unless by "defend vigorously" Floyd really means "beg like crazy."

You don't think that there are people out there who would be more than happy to donate to Floyd's defense in order to blow up the UCI and Pat McQuaid? I imagine that there are plenty of people (rich and not so rich) that would be more than willing to pony up a few bucks just to watch the fireworks, all the while hoping that Hein and McQuaid get what's coming to them.

http://www.sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6478523

Floyd is threatening to expose his fellow dopers in this lawsuit. Why would a sane person represented by lawyers EVER say that at this early stage in the litigation? Such bombast can only alienate some potential sugar-daddies. Furthermore, such a loose cannon statement can only turn potential allies into mortal enemies.

So there are no current riders in the Peloton that are clean and have watched what is going on from other riders? Might those riders not want a little revenge for trying to do things clean only to have dirty riders take away what is rightly theirs? Just think if Cuddles knows something and he's clean. Wonder how ****ed off he would be at losing to a known dirty rider, and now he'd finally have the chance to expose things in a court of law? Hmm, wonder if there could be others.

 

[flicker]

But depositions are expensive! Assuming Floyd's not lying about his lawyers in the wings, Floyd will have to pay his lawyers expenses for international travel, as well as the cost of multiple depositions themselves. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars minimum.

Remember Floyd's BS rhetoric before the CAS hearing? Why is this talk any different? If Floyd wants to win, he'll lie to do it. Note that he has never apologized for all the lying about doping that he did throughout his career.

Floyd's gotta draw blood before the UCI blinks. If he's got sugar daddies, then we're going to have a good show! Otherwise, it's just Floyd lying again.

It is like this, Floyd has about 34 loyal fans here and I would guess maybe 6o others on the other cycling sites.
Out of those 94 about 0 are gainfully employed, spend to much time blogging, etc. So everybody kicks in $10 bucks each. $940.
I will bet that their is a brilliant young Harvard graduaTE THAT IS JUST DYING TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF BY DEFeNDING FLOYD FROM THE BIG BAD UCI. So $940 plus a couple plane ticket(does JET BLUE) fly direct from LAX to Zurich yet. Voom Floyd be stylin.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But depositions are expensive! Assuming Floyd's not lying about his lawyers in the wings, Floyd will have to pay his lawyers expenses for international travel, as well as the cost of multiple depositions themselves. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars minimum.

One more time Mark (I have put the relevant part in a different color for you).

He added that the UCI's announcement prompted offers of assistance from several lawyers he has worked with previously and said he is prepared to fight back, including, if necessary, countersuing and taking depositions from riders and cycling officials who would corroborate his accusations.

Remember Floyd's BS rhetoric before the CAS hearing? Why is this talk any different? If Floyd wants to win, he'll lie to do it. Note that he has never apologized for all the lying about doping that he did throughout his career.

Really?
Floyd Landis - "I am sorry for having lied".

Floyd's gotta draw blood before the UCI blinks. If he's got sugar daddies, then we're going to have a good show! Otherwise, it's just Floyd lying again.

No, Floyd does not have to do anything - as I explained earlier.

BTW - you appear to have a thing against liars.
You appear to not know the facts as we are constantly correcting you - for the record is it because you are ignorant or are you yourself being dishonest in your postings?

 

[Benotti69]

I think MarkieVW is pulling all your chains. He is losing his little war against Landis due to posters replies, but why bother. All the questions have been answered in the Landis thread and are there for those who care to look before opening their mouths and making a fool of themselves with statements about Landis.

McQuaid and Hein are scared of Landis and are trying to attack him before the Fed investigation drags their dirty washing out into public. So this is probably the only thing they can do, and it is pathetic, but they are hardly gonna fight him on territory they don't know. Who knows they may have a bent Swiss judge or 2 in their(UCI/IOC) pockets. I think were his to go to court and i very much doubt it will as i can imagine it is very expensive in Embezzlement land and McQuaid and Hein are not gonna spend their ill gotten gains on lawyers now are they? Landis is not gonna show and he is not gonna be worried about any decision the Swiss courts make. His credibility will look pretty damn good after the Feds are finished and the whistle blower thing gets done.

 

[MarkvW]

You don't think that there are people out there who would be more than happy to donate to Floyd's defense in order to blow up the UCI and Pat McQuaid? I imagine that there are plenty of people (rich and not so rich) that would be more than willing to pony up a few bucks just to watch the fireworks, all the while hoping that Hein and McQuaid get what's coming to them.



So there are no current riders in the Peloton that are clean and have watched what is going on from other riders? Might those riders not want a little revenge for trying to do things clean only to have dirty riders take away what is rightly theirs? Just think if Cuddles knows something and he's clean. Wonder how ****ed off he would be at losing to a known dirty rider, and now he'd finally have the chance to expose things in a court of law? Hmm, wonder if there could be others.

Ponying up to help Floyd depends upon your own assessment of Floyd's commitment to turn the lawsuit into a glorious cause celebre. Will Floyd betray contributors if it is in his own interest?

The clean riders don't have any evidence that would help Floyd. It's the eternal problem of prosecuting dope dealers--you need dopeheads to do it. If a clean rider COULD do it, one (LeMond?) would have done it by now. If you're reading Floyds postings now, he's got to be persona non grata with the bulk of the peleton. Floyd needs allies, not more enemies.

 

[MarkvW]

proof in pudding

I think MarkieVW is pulling all your chains. He is losing his little war against Landis due to posters replies, but why bother. All the questions have been answered in the Landis thread and are there for those who care to look before opening their mouths and making a fool of themselves with statements about Landis.

McQuaid and Hein are scared of Landis and are trying to attack him before the Fed investigation drags their dirty washing out into public. So this is probably the only thing they can do, and it is pathetic, but they are hardly gonna fight him on territory they don't know. Who knows they may have a bent Swiss judge or 2 in their(UCI/IOC) pockets. I think were his to go to court and i very much doubt it will as i can imagine it is very expensive in Embezzlement land and McQuaid and Hein are not gonna spend their ill gotten gains on lawyers now are they? Landis is not gonna show and he is not gonna be worried about any decision the Swiss courts make. His credibility will look pretty damn good after the Feds are finished and the whistle blower thing gets done.

I am truly missing your point. You argue that Floyd's not going to show? But Floyd himself said he'd vigorously defend? Don't you believe him?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I am truly missing your point. You argue that Floyd's not going to show? But Floyd himself said he'd vigorously defend? Don't you believe him?

Let me help you - the point is the highlighted.

.... I think were his to go to court and i very much doubt it will as i can imagine it is very expensive in Embezzlement land and McQuaid and Hein are not gonna spend their ill gotten gains on lawyers now are they? Landis is not gonna show and he is not gonna be worried about any decision the Swiss courts make.

BTW - you again have mentioned that "Floyd himself said he'd vigorously defend" - can you show me where he used those words?

 

[MarkvW]

unrepentant Floyd

Floyd is unrepentant about his doping. You cannot dope in the pro peloton without lying. Therefore, Floyd is unrepentant about his lying.

His "apology" was for his CAS perjury. He lost that case.

Why all the defensiveness about Floyd's character? It's one of Floyd's best attributes in a defamation case. He can argue that the UCI, et al. were not damaged, because nobody believes what he says anyway (without corroboration, that is).

Floyd would be a dream to cross-examine. So many inconsistent statements . . ..

At trial, Floyd is like an eroding riverbank. Right now (if they are still building a case on his testimony) the feds are hard at work building a bulkhead to protect that eroding riverbank from the onrush of opposing lawyers.

 

[MarkvW]

google

BTW - you again have mentioned that "Floyd himself said he'd vigorously defend" - can you show me where he used those words?[/QUOTE]

Google "landis vigorous."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Floyd is unrepentant about his doping. You cannot dope in the pro peloton without lying. Therefore, Floyd is unrepentant about his lying.

His "apology" was for his CAS perjury. He lost that case.

Why all the defensiveness about Floyd's character? It's one of Floyd's best attributes in a defamation case. He can argue that the UCI, et al. were not damaged, because nobody believes what he says anyway (without corroboration, that is).

Floyd would be a dream to cross-examine. So many inconsistent statements . . ..

At trial, Floyd is like an eroding riverbank. Right now (if they are still building a case on his testimony) the feds are hard at work building a bulkhead to protect that eroding riverbank from the onrush of opposing lawyers.

Really - I will write down the words he actually said, I will highlight where he mentions CAS as you appear to see those:

This was a big decision for you, why did you want to come out and talk today?

"Well, its about the truth, its about, its about me feeling better, for having mislead the public and for that I would like to say sorry.
I havent had a ca\hance to do so apart from in the newspaper and in the print and I would like to take that oppurtunity to say sorry for having lied, I am glad I don't have to lie"

You may have noticed there is no highlight - sorry.

So, have you got that quote from Floyd I asked for? Because you appear to be misrepresenting what he said - which means you are lying.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Google "landis vigorous."

Wow - and there was me thinking you didn't know how to use Google.

Ok - this is what I got. A Velonews headline:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...se-against-uci-defamation-claims_171051]Floyd Landis says he intends a vigorous defense against UCI defamation claims.

Thats a headline (usually put in by an editor) - what i asked for was the QUOTE, because you did say Floyd "said" it.

So, can you show me where he said this, or did you misrepresent what he said?

 

[MarkvW]

Chill

Wow - and there was me thinking you didn't know how to use Google.

Ok - this is what I got. A Velonews headline:


Thats a headline (usually put in by an editor) - what i asked for was the QUOTE, because you did say Floyd "said" it.

So, can you show me where he said this, or did you misrepresent what he said?

The article says what it says. Floyd's already talked about deposing people--that's a vigorous defense. The term "vigorous defense" is used by the reporter--not just the editor. I'm not lying! Floyd really did say he's going to fight this! He said that the UCI's suit "will strengthen my resolve to expose them as the criminals they are." (From Mr. Pelkey's article).

Read Mr. Pelkey's article and form your own opinion. Don't stop just at the headline.