UCI to trial disc brakes?

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
DFA123 said:
Well,Taylor Phinney - one of the best descenders in the peloton - doesn't think it's ridiculous

"We?re all just waiting for the UCI, or somebody, to let us race on disc brakes. But I think it?s something you have to do all at once, to make sure everyone is all on disc brakes. Not so much in the dry, but in the wet. ? It changes a lot of ability to brake, slow down, and so if you have 30 percent of the peloton without disc brakes and you?re going down a wet descent and you?re braking for a turn and the person in front of you brakes a lot faster, and more efficiently, and you don?t have disc brakes, you?re going to go slamming into the back of them. It?s a safety thing ? but I think we?re all ready and waiting for it."

Well Taylor Phinney seems to have trouble staying on his bike anyway...


Sorry, but he's wrong. People brake at different rates all the time. It's still perfectly possible to modulate your brakes with discs, it's actually much easier, especially if you are using hydraulics.



Lets make one thing clear though, pros don't need disc brakes. They are much better and may stop some crashes but it's also going to make some riders push the limits.

For me, this is much more about the general public who ride bikes. Discs are ridiculously good compared to even the best rim brakes. Cheap mountain bike discs stop better than high end rim stuff, especially when it's cold, dusty, muddy or wet. Once the pros start riding them the technology will pick up and filter down the groupsets. You can buy a full set of Shimano Deore M615's for about ?60 over here. These brakes are good enough to put on a downhill bike...
 
King Boonen said:
For me, this is much more about the general public who ride bikes. Discs are ridiculously good compared to even the best rim brakes. Cheap mountain bike discs stop better than high end rim stuff, especially when it's cold, dusty, muddy or wet.

This is a good point. I was thinking the same thing, that disc brakes are much more useful and important for a guy on his commute that has to stop suddenly in wet conditions to avoid a car that has pulled out on him, than they are to pro's racing on closed roads.

Re. braking, even if the pro's are experienced and skillful enough to ride with different braking systems in the peloton, what about further down the pyramid. If the UCI allows disk brakes and you end up having a half and half situation in a Cat 4 road race, with riders short on experience and with realtively poor bike handling, it's just going to increase the number of crashes if riders are braking at different speeds.
 
DFA123 said:
This is a good point. I was thinking the same thing, that disc brakes are much more useful and important for a guy on his commute that has to stop suddenly in wet conditions to avoid a car that has pulled out on him, than they are to pro's racing on closed roads.

Re. braking, even if the pro's are experienced and skillful enough to ride with different braking systems in the peloton, what about further down the pyramid. If the UCI allows disk brakes and you end up having a half and half situation in a Cat 4 road race, with riders short on experience and with realtively poor bike handling, it's just going to increase the number of crashes if riders are braking at different speeds.

Yep, it's much more important to us because we have to share roads with other traffic, but the only way they'll drift down to the kind of affordable level we see in MTB is if the pros are riding them and we get drip down technology. The pros certainly don't need them, but I image the guys who can really descend well/handle a bike well in corners are thinking they could be very beneficial...

Anythings possible, but we deal with different speeds and braking in all our everyday lives. Brakes on cars are vastly different, yet most of us don't plow into the back of people with better brakes, everyone walks at different speeds, yet we nearly always manage to avoid others, even when they stop suddenly. More powerful brakes won't take away peoples' powers of perception and I think it'll be an easy adjust. I've ridden in groups with a very wide range of brakesets, including cable discs, and it's never been the brakes that have caused any problems.
 
Ventoso's open letter after he was injured by a disc brake at Roubaix

(warning - very gruesome images of his leg at the bottom)

https://www.facebook.com/fran.ventoso.9/posts/10156809619355611

Open letter: Fran Ventoso.
On disc brakes.
I’ve spent thirteen years in the pro cycling peloton and another thirteen moving up the ladder in youth categories. That makes it 26 years on my bike, training every day, enjoying what I like most, my passion. Since I was six, I’ve enjoyed racing, and I continue to do so. I’m so happy to have turned my vocation into a dream job.
Just like in any other sport, cycling has evolved in many technical aspects. However, it has not done so in others in a way we’d all have liked.
Through all these years, I’ve witnessed many improvements on different parts of the bike and cycling apparel. We started off with steel, then aluminum, and later on, carbon. That last one came here to stay, since it was as rigid as we needed while also offering lightness. We’ve also stopped using toeclips for clipless pedals, much more comfortable, effective and secure. Days are long gone when we used hairnet helmets: modern ones are now lighter, beautiful to the eye and offer absolute security guarantees when you use them.
I’ve also seen very important improvements on gearing. My first bike had one chainring and three sprockets; nowadays, we use two chainrings, even three, and 11 sprockets… and I’m certain it won’t end there. Technology evolution has been a sort of trial and error: getting to this point hasn’t been easy. I remember how easily chains were broken when we first used ten sprockets: links that broke, because of materials still not as resistant as it was required… it still happens today. We could also talk about the revolution that has brought the electronic shifting. When it was first shown and used, we all were surprised and made early judgments: it’s not necessary, it might not work well, carrying batteries seems wrong, having to connect your bike to AC is bonkers… And now, we can’t imagine our bikes without it.
My point is: two years ago, we started seeing disc brakes put on cyclocross bikes, and the rumour was that there could be a chance that they be tested in road cycling events.
Beforehand, I want to make this clear: I’m so in favor as anyone else that cyclocross professionals or participants in sportives enjoy the advantages of disc brakes during their rides.
But then, there’s pro road cycling events. Was there really anyone who thought things like Sunday’s wouldn’t happen? Really nobody thought they were dangerous? Nobody realized they can cut, they can become giant knives?
At Paris-Roubaix, only two teams used them. With eight riders each, that makes it sixteen, carrying a total 32 disc brakes into the peloton. Let me take you to 130km into the race: into a cobbled section, a pile-up splits the field, with riders falling everywhere. I’ve got to break but I can’t avoid crashing against the rider in front of me, who was also trying not to hit the ones ahead. I didn’t actually fall down: it was only my leg touching the back of his bike. I keep riding. But shortly afterwards, I have a glance at that leg: it doesn’t hurt, there’s not a lot of blood covering it, but I can clearly see part of the periosteum, the membrane or surface that covers my tibia. I get off my bike, throw myself against the right-hand side of the road over the grass, cover my face with my hands in shock and disbelief, start to feel sick… I could only wait for my team car and the ambulance, while a lot of things come through my mind.
Just a stroke of bad luck? I don’t thing so: few kilometers later, one of the thoughts I had sitting in the gutter becomes real.
15km after my incident, Nikolas Maes, a rider from Etixx-Quick Step, comes into the very same ambulance I’m sitting in. There’s a deep wound in his knee, produced by another disc, one of those 32. One question comes inevitably and immediately to one’s mind: what will happen when 396 discs get into a race where 198 riders ferociously battle for position?
Disc brakes should have NEVER arrived into the peloton, not at least as we know them right now. I haven’t met any rider who has run out of braking power with traditional brakes; I haven’t known anyone who didn’t see his wheels skidding when you brake with all power you’ve got, no matter traditional or disc brakes. Then: why using them?
Conversely, there are lots of problems to change wheels after a puncture; added trouble for neutral service, which has to carry three or four different sets of wheels to help you out in case your team car is not around… and the most worrying thing, as I stated before, is that disc brakes in its actual concept are giant knives, ‘machetes’ when crashing against or crashed by them at a certain speed. And in some points, we reach 80, 90, 100 kilometres per hour.
I’ve been lucky: I didn’t get my leg chopped off, it’s just some muscle and skin. But can you imagine that disk cutting a jugular or a femoral vein? I would prefer not to.
All of this happens because the international riders’ association –the CPA–, national riders’ associations, international and national feds, teams and, above all of them, OURSELVES, PROFESSIONAL RIDERS, are not doing anything. We always think that it’s not a problem if it doesn’t happen to ourselves. We always wait for horrible things to happen in order to take measures. Sooner or later, it could happen to anybody: it’s a matter of probability, we’ve all got the same. Pro riders should take a look beyond our own belly. Others tell us what we should do, but we just can’t forget WE’VE GOT THE POWER TO CHOOSE, AND WE SHOULD MAKE A CHOICE.
Disks produce cuts. This time it was me; tomorrow, it can be more serious and happen to others.
 
Aug 4, 2011
3,647
0
0
Disc brakes are just not needed. Its that simple. Its just another fashion fad implicated to sell new bikes.

Its the same for electronic you see a lot of top riders not using it. Its expensive toys for boys.
 
it's not exactly the same, electronic shifters can't hurt you.

and I bet there are more riders using electronic then mechanical shifts. sagan, for instance, used shimano di2 during the first part of PR and changed bikes before the first sector.
 
More than happy to change my opinion on them after seeing the photos. I've been undecided but after seeing that I'm against them in racing unless serious modifications are made. The fact it didn't happen in a crash is very important to note, that's been the debate but this situation is much more serious in my eyes.
 
Mar 14, 2016
3,092
7
0
Apologies if this is an idiot question, but couldn't some form of protection be added around disc brakes' sharp parts?
 
Mar 14, 2016
3,092
7
0
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Apologies if this is an idiot question, but couldn't some form of protection be added around disc brakes' sharp parts?

Yes... But it would most likely be made of carbon, and in a crash would probably just turn into a carbon fibre machine gun...
Couldn't they be made of something else? I know it would add weight, but these days most bikes need ballasting to reach the UCI minimum anyway.
 
Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
King Boonen said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Apologies if this is an idiot question, but couldn't some form of protection be added around disc brakes' sharp parts?

Yes... But it would most likely be made of carbon, and in a crash would probably just turn into a carbon fibre machine gun...
Couldn't they be made of something else? I know it would add weight, but these days most bikes need ballasting to reach the UCI minimum anyway.

There's talk of removing the weight limit next...

Not sure what else they could use as it would still need attaching to the frame and if the disc catches it's going to cause damage to something. Rubber would just be dangerous, I can see alu, steel of Ti tearing the seat/chain stays to pieces.

This is certainly not a situation many foresaw. Most thought it would be in a pile up, but the physics of that don't add up. It's almost certain the reason it did so much damage in this case is because the bike was still moving forward on the road so the wheel experiencing torque which kept the disc spinning. In a crash the wheels usually stop pretty quickly or are no longer under load so will stop very easily. In that case hot discs would be a bigger worry.

The worrying thing is this could happen in the bunch just from the usual jostling for position. I've never heard anyone suggest that before but this is evidence it is a very real worry.
 
The other issue with fairings or covers is they'll likely look crap, which will reduce bike manufacture's commercial incentive to manufacture them as they won't be able to sell as many..
 
Re:

BeagRigh said:
The other issue with fairings or covers is they'll likely look crap, which will reduce bike manufacture's commercial incentive to manufacture them as they won't be able to sell as many..

Modern, carbon bikes look crap anyway. Doesn't stop people buying them thinking they're Batman :)
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
BeagRigh said:
The other issue with fairings or covers is they'll likely look crap, which will reduce bike manufacture's commercial incentive to manufacture them as they won't be able to sell as many..

Modern, carbon bikes look crap anyway. Doesn't stop people buying them thinking they're Batman :)

Very true, could be like aero helmets. To start with everyone will say they look crap, then they'll see s
pro with them and want them :rolleyes:
 
I've got to admit that I was 100% in favor of disc brakes, and dismissed the fears that they would cause injury (spokes and chainrings are just as dangerous). But looking at his wound certainly makes me rethink my full support for their intro into the pro platoon.

EDIT: As bad as that wound is, I don't think that the stars can align like that very often, so the once every five years, worst case scenario happened in one of the first races with discs.
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
2
0
Wow, those injuries are nasty!
I feared that they could cause nasty injuries in big crashes, but the fact that something like his can happen just from the usual jostling for position is crazy.
 
Apr 3, 2016
1,508
0
0
Re:

jmdirt said:
I've got to admit that I was 100% in favor of disc brakes, and dismissed the fears that they would cause injury (spokes and chainrings are just as dangerous i thought). But looking at his wound certainly makes me rethink my support for their intro into the pro platoon.

I'm totally in favour of the ones on one of my bike, but were I in a tightly packed peloton hitting 60kph and somebody at the front fell, I wouldn't be so welcoming.
 
jmdirt said:
I've got to admit that I was 100% in favor of disc brakes, and dismissed the fears that they would cause injury (spokes and chainrings are just as dangerous). But looking at his wound certainly makes me rethink my full support for their intro into the pro platoon.

EDIT: As bad as that wound is, I don't think that the stars can align like that very often, so the once every five years, worst case scenario happened in one of the first races with discs.
According to Ventoso, Maes also joined him in the ambulance with a wound caused by disc brakes. So that's two in one race
 
Mar 14, 2016
3,092
7
0
luckyboy said:
Ventoso's open letter after he was injured by a disc brake at Roubaix

(warning - very gruesome images of his leg at the bottom)
Is it bad news if I don't find it gruesome? The modern world does desensitise folk a bit...
 
Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
jmdirt said:
I've got to admit that I was 100% in favor of disc brakes, and dismissed the fears that they would cause injury (spokes and chainrings are just as dangerous). But looking at his wound certainly makes me rethink my full support for their intro into the pro platoon.

EDIT: As bad as that wound is, I don't think that the stars can align like that very often, so the once every five years, worst case scenario happened in one of the first races with discs.
According to Ventoso, Maes also joined him in the ambulance with a wound caused by disc brakes. So that's two in one race

While only 2 teams were using them....