UCI to trial disc brakes?

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

The other issue with fairings or covers is they'll likely look crap, which will reduce bike manufacture's commercial incentive to manufacture them as they won't be able to sell as many..

Modern, carbon bikes look crap anyway. Doesn't stop people buying them thinking they're Batman

I'm Batman

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

it's not exactly the same, electronic shifters can't hurt you.

and I bet there are more riders using electronic then mechanical shifts. sagan, for instance, used shimano di2 during the first part of PR and changed bikes before the first sector.

You could take off the shifters and stab someone. Death by Di2 .

 

[ray j willings]

Problem solved

 

[ice&fire]

You could hide motors in the rider instead of the bike

 

[PremierAndrew]

Ventoso's open letter after he was injured by a disc brake at Roubaix

(warning - very gruesome images of his leg at the bottom)

Is it bad news if I don't find it gruesome? The modern world does desensitise folk a bit...

I've seen worse, but imagine looking down and seeing the wound shown in the picture taken by the road. That would be terrifying to see

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Everyone is different no doubt. In hospital after a knee to ankle faciotomy was required on both sides of my leg, during the prolonged dressing changes I was able to look at the muscles inside of my leg. I found it fascinating. I was on some serious drugs of course.

 

[ice&fire]

What will be manufacturers next step?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-suspends-road-disc-brakes-in-races-after-ventoso-injury/

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

What will be manufacturers next step?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-suspends-road-disc-brakes-in-races-after-ventoso-injury/

Nothing is changing for the manufacturers. They will keep selling disc brake bikes to recreational riders and for training purposes.

 

[jmdirt]

So the UCI stopped the disc brake test. One leg wound and there's action, yet motos continue to cause worse injuries, and crickets...HMMM?! Same as it ever was...same as it ever was.

 

[Lequack]

Re:

So the UCI stopped the disc brake test. One leg wound and there's action, yet motos continue to cause worse injuries, and crickets...HMMM?! Same as it ever was...same as it ever was.

Yeah but disc brakes are bad and motos are good. [/sarcasm]

 

[RedheadDane]

The difference is that you can remove the discbrakes completely from the racing, at least until they find a solution to the whole they turn into knives thing. You can't remove motos from racing altogether.

 

[SafeBet]

I find it odd that most riders are now saying on Twitter that they knew it was gonna be a disaster and they all were against disc brakes.
I don't recall many riders complaining about disc brakes when UCI first introduced them.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

I've got to admit that I was 100% in favor of disc brakes, and dismissed the fears that they would cause injury (spokes and chainrings are just as dangerous). But looking at his wound certainly makes me rethink my full support for their intro into the pro platoon.

EDIT: As bad as that wound is, I don't think that the stars can align like that very often, so the once every five years, worst case scenario happened in one of the first races with discs.

According to Ventoso, Maes also joined him in the ambulance with a wound caused by disc brakes. So that's two in one race

Maes injury wasn't caused by a disc, there's loads of photos of the crash he was in and no Lampre Merida or Direct Energie riders were involved.

Ventoso's injuries still need to be confirmed as caused by a disc, no-one actually knows, but I'm more than happy with the UCI decision as a precaution. They're not necessary for racing so no problem removing them for the time being.

 

[Nick C.]

Re:

I find it odd that most riders are now saying on Twitter that they knew it was gonna be a disaster and they all were against disc brakes.
I don't recall many riders complaining about disc brakes when UCI first introduced them.

Nibali might have, but in all honesty who asks them such questions.

 

[DFA123]

Interesting to read the other point that Ventoso made in his open letter; that disc brakes - even if they were safe - serve no real purpose on road bikes. There is more than enough stopping power with current rim brakes - tyre traction is the limiter, not brakes. And modulation is already excellent with the latest line of rim brakes - even using cables. If hydraulic rim brakes are used, then modulation is pretty much identical to discs.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Interesting to read the other point that Ventoso made in his open letter; that disc brakes - even if they were safe - serve no real purpose on road bikes. There is more than enough stopping power with current rim brakes - tyre traction is the limiter, not brakes. And modulation is already excellent with the latest line of rim brakes - even using cables. If hydraulic rim brakes are used, then modulation is pretty much identical to discs.

Not sure I agree with him about power/modulation, although I obviously don't get access to the kind of kit he does. Rim brake performance varies massively depending on conditions.

Where I absolutely disagree with him is saying they have no purpose on a road bike. Maybe for a pro who doesn't buy his own kit or for someone who has a load of wheels in the shed already they aren't, but grinding away on any rims is completely counter-intuitive to me. My front rim on my fixed wheel will need replacing soon. That's a lot of money for something that would last much, much longer if I had disc brakes. For hobbyists they are the best system available, they don't destroy expensive components and you get as good as Dura-Ace/Super Record rim modulation from 105 and, probably, the new Tiagra brakes coming out soon. For road racing I think they are likely unnecessary.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Interesting to read the other point that Ventoso made in his open letter; that disc brakes - even if they were safe - serve no real purpose on road bikes. There is more than enough stopping power with current rim brakes - tyre traction is the limiter, not brakes. And modulation is already excellent with the latest line of rim brakes - even using cables. If hydraulic rim brakes are used, then modulation is pretty much identical to discs.

Not sure I agree with him about power/modulation, although I obviously don't get access to the kind of kit he does. Rim brake performance varies massively depending on conditions.

Where I absolutely disagree with him is saying they have no purpose on a road bike. Maybe for a pro who doesn't buy his own kit or for someone who has a load of wheels in the shed already they aren't, but grinding away on any rims is completely counter-intuitive to me. My front rim on my fixed wheel will need replacing soon. That's a lot of money for something that would last much, much longer if I had disc brakes. For hobbyists they are the best system available, they don't destroy expensive components and you get as good as Dura-Ace/Super Record rim modulation from 105 and, probably, the new Tiagra brakes coming out soon. For road racing I think they are likely unnecessary.

That's a fair point, but I guess it also depends where you ride. I ride mostly around Spain and southern France and rims can last over 25,000km, even doing a lot of heavy breaking in the mountains. Quite often the rim gets bent out of shape and needs replacing before it's worn out anyway, so rim wear not a major consideration.

I suppose if you ride a lot in wetter climates, or with loads of salt and dirt on the roads, or are very heavy, then rim wear would be a much greater consideration. Although, in those conditions it probably makes sense just to use a cheap €30 rim anyway, rather than anything more performance orientated. Then you could probably go through three or four rims for the same cost as purchasing and maintaining disc brakes.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

The difference is that you can remove the discbrakes completely from the racing, at least until they find a solution to the whole they turn into knives thing. You can't remove motos from racing altogether.

Yes you can completely remove motos from racing, but that's not the point I was making with my post. My point was about action and/or lack of action from the UCI. While the disc brake gash is bad, Taylor P's injury is much worse.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Interesting to read the other point that Ventoso made in his open letter; that disc brakes - even if they were safe - serve no real purpose on road bikes. There is more than enough stopping power with current rim brakes - tyre traction is the limiter, not brakes. And modulation is already excellent with the latest line of rim brakes - even using cables. If hydraulic rim brakes are used, then modulation is pretty much identical to discs.

Not sure I agree with him about power/modulation, although I obviously don't get access to the kind of kit he does. Rim brake performance varies massively depending on conditions.

Where I absolutely disagree with him is saying they have no purpose on a road bike. Maybe for a pro who doesn't buy his own kit or for someone who has a load of wheels in the shed already they aren't, but grinding away on any rims is completely counter-intuitive to me. My front rim on my fixed wheel will need replacing soon. That's a lot of money for something that would last much, much longer if I had disc brakes. For hobbyists they are the best system available, they don't destroy expensive components and you get as good as Dura-Ace/Super Record rim modulation from 105 and, probably, the new Tiagra brakes coming out soon. For road racing I think they are likely unnecessary.

That's a fair point, but I guess it also depends where you ride. I ride mostly around Spain and southern France and rims can last over 25,000km, even doing a lot of heavy breaking in the mountains. Quite often the rim gets bent out of shape and needs replacing before it's worn out anyway, so rim wear not a major consideration.

I suppose if you ride a lot in wetter climates, or with loads of salt and dirt on the roads, or are very heavy, then rim wear would be a much greater consideration. Although, in those conditions it probably makes sense just to use a cheap €30 rim anyway, rather than anything more performance orientated. Then you could probably go through three or four rims for the same cost as purchasing and maintaining disc brakes.

I'm riding H+Son Archetypes, so not massively expensive but enough to not want to have to replace due to wear. If you imagine the worst days possible where you ride that's probably what 30% of my year round riding is like around Glasgow

Rim wear is actually a fairly big issue up here. Pretty much all the guys I know who have been riding for a few years have worn out rims to the point of failure or requiring replacement. It's why the vast majority of us who ride in clubs or all year favour handbuilt wheels, especially for winter. I should point out this is my fixed wheel, so I actually brake more on this bike due to the need to slow descending.

While I could go for cheaper options the ride quality of mid-range stuff is much better and combining them with disc brakes makes massive sense. Disc brake maintenance is very infrequent on my MTB. I expect more on road systems but they will get better, maybe even to the point where it's pretty much a once every 2+ years (Shimano and Hope MTB brakes can last longer than that in terms of brake fluid issues. I have friends with 5+ year old brakes they've never bled).

Of course, I'm not buying a new bike anytime soon so I'll stick with rim brakes, but there are very good reasons to have disc brakes on road bikes and they are certainly worth it in those cases. I'm just not sure they're worth it in the pro peloton.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

The difference is that you can remove the discbrakes completely from the racing, at least until they find a solution to the whole they turn into knives thing. You can't remove motos from racing altogether.

Yes you can completely remove motos from racing, but that's not the point I was making with my post. My point was about action and/or lack of action from the UCI. While the disc brake gash is bad, Taylor P's injury is much worse.

I'm with RedheadDane on this one. Clearly you can't completely remove motos. To say that shows a lack of knowledge as to why they (or at least most of them) are there in the first place. But you can suspend the trial of disc brakes and with any luck that may be the end of them, though there are many vested interests in the manufacturing side of the sport, looking for reasons why we should all want another bike.

 

[carton]

Discs carry additional risks in a peloton because they stick out more (bladed carbon spokes are far more dangerous when they come into play, but they rarely do as they're in line with the tyres). I think the fact that they work far better in all conditions -and pros get pretty much no say on what conditions they ride in- quite likely make them a safer choice for pros than rims all things (including risk compensation) considered. But IMHO, it should be mainly up to the riders themselves to decide, hopefully either supported by or included in some kind of technical committee. My gut says that the suspension will turn indefinite, mainly because you can't prove a counterfactual. Particularly to a pro athlete who's been bred to believe that tangible outcomes are always evident and paramount and that they happen due to readily apparent reasons (I keep thinking about the thing where many athletes across all sports don't visit their friends in the hospital so as not to "attract" injury).

But I remain thoroughly convinced that they're a far better choice for the average punter. So the really interesting thing to me, as an a racing fan and an amateur with no say in whether or not discs are adopted in the pro peloton, is what happens with top-end consumer bikes. With the introduction of the Specialized Roubaix most road bikes sold have started differing significantly from most sponsored bikes given away (outside a token bike usually used in one race a year). Yet at the same time pro cycling, beyond the Tour de France, the sport exists ever more as a marketing showroom for bike brands. Maybe we go down the car racing route, where bikes raced by pros look nothing like the ones the manufacturers actually sell. But something's gotta give.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

The difference is that you can remove the discbrakes completely from the racing, at least until they find a solution to the whole they turn into knives thing. You can't remove motos from racing altogether.

Yes you can completely remove motos from racing, but that's not the point I was making with my post. My point was about action and/or lack of action from the UCI. While the disc brake gash is bad, Taylor P's injury is much worse.

I'm with RedheadDane on this one. Clearly you can't completely remove motos. To say that shows a lack of knowledge as to why they (or at least most of them) are there in the first place. But you can suspend the trial of disc brakes and with any luck that may be the end of them, though there are many vested interests in the manufacturing side of the sport, looking for reasons why we should all want another bike.

Thank you for the lesson, I always appreciate being told what for. Clearly you can remove motos and still have a race. Granted you have no TV coverage or other 'neutral' vehicles, but you can still race. No, of course I don't think that it is realistic to get rid of all of the motos, but cutting the number in half is completely realistic. To say otherwise shows a lack of knowledge and/or understanding.

Again, my point is that motos have been causing more and more problems (injuries, etc...) over the last few years, yet the UCI has done nothing. One guy gets gashed by a disc brake and poof, no more disc brakes in the pro platoon.

 

[carolina]

I can think of 4 reasons to have motos:
- guide the riders and tell them were to turn
- medical help
- mechanical help
- inform the riders about time splits, because not every rider uses a radio.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I can think of 4 reasons to have motos:
- guide the riders and tell them were to turn
- medical help
- mechanical help
- inform the riders about time splits, because not every rider uses a radio.

In a lot of races you need them to perform rolling road closures as well - particularly outside the GT's where it's just not feasible to have a policeman standing on every junction. The nature of this requires the motos to be speeding past the riders from time to time.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

I can think of 4 reasons to have motos:
- guide the riders and tell them were to turn Isn't that what the lead cars are for?
- medical help Isn't hat what the team cars and neutral cars are for?
- mechanical help Isn't that what the medical cars are for?
- inform the riders about time splits, because not every rider uses a radio.that's not true.

Motos could be reduced by half and still add to the services you have listed above. AGAIN, the point is that the UCI has dragged their feet on one issue and stomped their feet on another.

Rolling enclosures don't require 100 motos.