UCI Won't Speed Up Clentador Decision

[HoustonHammer]

I would argue that contaminated food from the general food supply was closer to "no fault" than "no significant fault", because "Athletes ...... have been warned against the possibility of supplement contamination.". The exception IMO would be if athletes have been warned or could reasonably be expected to know that anything they buy from an independent 3rd party had a reasonable chance of contamination. (Essentially to prevent people from travelling to places where they hope the food supply will mask their PED use.)

Makes the Colo case interesting. It would be interesting to know if the contamination in the food supply means more than 50% contamination in the population - otherwise it is hard to see why there was any reduction in sanction at all. It would also be interesting to know how many athletes are aware of food contamination risks from certain countries, or if they are warned.....off to see if that can be found on the WADA site....

This is an interesting point, and I think you're right. But you see the problem, right? There are two elements: how did it happen, and could the athlete have reasonably foreseen it. If there is a high incidence in the food chain, then he can prove the first element; but on the second element, it might be reasonable for the anti-doping authority to say, 'hey, you should have known'. Where it gets really sticky is the AC case. Starting backwards with the second element, I'd agree that he would have no fault if he ate beef from a country that essentially has no Clen it its beef; but he can't get there because in such a case, he almost certainly can't meet the balance of probability for the first test (if there's no or virtually no Clen in European beef, how did it get into YOUR steak?).

It really looks pretty open and shut, UNLESS you have predetermined that you want the guy to get off and need to find a loophole or just flat break the rules to let him walk.

 

[Berzin]

Since the governing bodies are dilly-dallying on this, I'll make the decision for them so we can all move forward.

Alberto Contador will receive a 9-month suspension, back-dated to his provisional suspension date of August 24th, 2010. He will keep his 2010 Tour title and will be allowed to race by May 24th of 2011, making him eligible for the 2011 Tour.

This will appease everyone. He gets the suspension the law-and-order yahoos so desperately crave without the idiotic 2-year ban.

He keeps his 2010 Tour title so the sport doesn't look completely ridiculous having to strip the title from 2 different overall winners in the span of 4 years, an unprecedented event in any sport.

Those who want to see Contador race regardless of whether he doped or not will be relieved, and those who hate him can keep on hating.

 

[scribe]

Since the governing bodies are dilly-dallying on this, I'll make the decision for them so we can all move forward.

Alberto Contador will receive a 9-month suspension, back-dated to his provisional suspension date of August 24th, 2010. He will keep his 2010 Tour title and will be allowed to race by May 24th of 2011, making him eligible for the 2011 Tour.

This will appease everyone. He gets the suspension the law-and-order yahoos so desperately crave without the idiotic 2-year ban.

He keeps his 2010 Tour title so the sport doesn't look completely ridiculous having to strip the title from 2 different overall winners in the span of 4 years, an unprecedented event in any sport.

Those who want to see Contador race regardless of whether he doped or not will be relieved, and those who hate him can keep on hating.

An absolute farce. Bull****.

If you want to see dopers racing just come out and say it. Let the best dopers win!

 

[hrotha]

Seriously, Berzin, if you hate Armstrong so much, why do you want to create a new one?

 

[flicker]

It would be unfare to Andy and the other riders to strip his title. I say let him ride the 2011 tour and bust him hard on stage 17. That should be transfussion day. Right in the hotel room, with press and video camaras.

 

[El Pistolero]

Seriously, Berzin, if you hate Armstrong so much, why do you want to create a new one?

Because Contador is nothing like Armstrong. He's actually quite friendly. And that's the only reason why people hate Armstrong here anyway, because he's an ***. It can't be the doping issue because you all believe everyone is doped anyway.

 

[hrotha]

This friendly guy, if guilty of being a doper, would also turn out to be completely full of ****, as he toured as many TV sets as possible to deny everything, all while looking completely indignant, so excuse me if I don't buy his nice guy persona.

 

[python]

guys lets get armstrong out of this thread, that jerk has 100 threads of his own.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Because Contador is nothing like Armstrong. He's actually quite friendly. And that's the only reason why people hate Armstrong here anyway, because he's an ***. It can't be the doping issue because you all believe everyone is doped anyway.

Speak for yourself please.

This thread has nothing to do with Armstrong - nor indeed is it a personality contest.

I don't hate LA or AC - I hate the way are facilitate and offered excuses, not just by some fans but by the administration that is supposed to care for the sport.

 

[El Pistolero]

This friendly guy, if guilty of being a doper, would also turn out to be completely full of ****, as he toured as many TV sets as possible to deny everything, all while looking completely indignant, so excuse me if I don't buy his nice guy persona. R

IF


That's what your whole post is, one big if.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's hard to come across a single person in the clinic that doesn't think all winners are dopers.

Contador will get punished, unlike Lance. Unlike Pellizoti. Unlike Di Luca who's results still stand at the 2009 Giro. Who's punishment was a complete and utter joke.

 

[scribe]

guys lets get armstrong out of this thread, that jerk has 100 threads of his own.

It's relevant when people take clearly hypocritical positions on him vs their favorite riders.

 

[python]

It's relevant when people take clearly hypocritical positions on him vs their favorite riders.

reported......

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's hard to come across a single person in the clinic that doesn't think all winners are dopers.

Contador will get punished, unlike Lance. Unlike Pellizoti. Unlike Di Luca who's results still stand at the 2009 Giro. Who's punishment was a complete and utter joke.

Ok, you have watered your position from "everybody" dopes to "all winners".... GT winners, I might agree, but regardless doping is a sporting problem not a personality or results based problem.

If you think Contador being punished while others do not - than with respect - you have it the wrong way around.

 

[flicker]

It's hard to come across a single person in the clinic that doesn't think all winners are dopers.

Contador will get punished, unlike Lance. Unlike Pellizoti. Unlike Di Luca who's results still stand at the 2009 Giro. Who's punishment was a complete and utter joke.

Contador will walk away scott free. Lance will stand before the fireing line!

Contador will enjoy a heroes welcome at the Tour of California and the Quizanos challange. Cause cycling is a eurosport always has been as it should be!

 

[scribe]

reported......

Under what offense? It hurt your feelings that someone has an opinion? No one was attacked, there was no offensive language, it was relevant to the topic...

 

[El Pistolero]

Contador will walk away scott free. Lance will stand before the fireing line!

Contador will enjoy a heroes welcome at the Tour of California and the Quizanos challange. Cause cycling is a eurosport always has been as it should be!

Contador wouldn't enter the ToC. Bad prep, hardly has any mountain stages in it.

 

[Ferminal]

Who protected Basso, Di Luca, Vino, Rasmussen, Kohl, Valverde (ok the Spanish Fed/Courts but I expect them to back AC too), Rebellin, Landis, Hamilton, Ricco, Mosquera?

Why should all these be brought down, just because they don't have the private channels or aren't "too big to fail" ?

 

[scribe]

Contador wouldn't enter the ToC. Bad prep, hardly has any mountain stages in it.

Much more difficult to prove the meat was contaminated in Cali.

 

[Barrus]

I said this before in this thread even, KEEP ARMSTRONG OUT OF TOPICS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM

I do not want the talk about him and all the old debates getting into other threads. If you want to talk about him, do so in the appropriate threads

 

[Merckx index]

There are two elements: how did it happen, and could the athlete have reasonably foreseen it. If there is a high incidence in the food chain, then he can prove the first element; but on the second element, it might be reasonable for the anti-doping authority to say, 'hey, you should have known'. Where it gets really sticky is the AC case. Starting backwards with the second element, I'd agree that he would have no fault if he ate beef from a country that essentially has no Clen it its beef; but he can't get there because in such a case, he almost certainly can't meet the balance of probability for the first test (if there's no or virtually no Clen in European beef, how did it get into YOUR steak?).

It really looks pretty open and shut, UNLESS you have predetermined that you want the guy to get off and need to find a loophole or just flat break the rules to let him walk.

The one thing that might have saved Berto here is the DEHP test. If he had a very low value, he could have argued that that proved he did not transfuse the day that CB entered his system. Since everyone accepts it's between contaminated meat and transfusion, that would virtually force WADA to concede that it was contaminated meat.

But according to the German lab, Bert had a high DEHP value. Maybe not high enough to prove blood transfusion with any certainty, but still high enough NOT to prove he DIDN'T transfuse. The value seems to be in a range where it doesn't prove either did or didn't with any confidence. Throwing everything back to where we are now.

 

[python]

The one thing that might have saved Berto here is the DEHP test. If he had a very low value, he could have argued that that proved he did not transfuse the day that CB entered his system. Since everyone accepts it's between contaminated meat and transfusion, that would virtually force WADA to concede that it was contaminated meat.

But according to the German lab, Bert had a high DEHP value. Maybe not high enough to prove blood transfusion with any certainty, but still high enough NOT to prove he DIDN'T transfuse. The value seems to be in a range where it doesn't prove either did or didn't with any confidence. Throwing everything back to where we are now.

the thing that you have to keep in mind, as i noted in an earlier post, that dehp is:
(i) not validated
(ii) we don't know if the leak was valid
(iii) if it was valid, which rider did it belong to
(iv) if the other top 5-10 did not show DEHP
(v) if it agreed with the only officially validated method - biopass
etc...etc

it just simply can't be applied for in legally defensible manner w/o something more substantial. thus, as i said a million times, it's practically worthless as a standalone test, even after the validation. this fuzziness works in contador's favour

 

[scribe]

I said this before in this thread even, KEEP ARMSTRONG OUT OF TOPICS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM

I do not want the talk about him and all the old debates getting into other threads. If you want to talk about him, do so in the appropriate threads

The way his situation is handled comparatively to Contador's is of very relevant discussion. The UCI is under the microscope for this as they are or were cycling's golden boys.

 

[python]

The way his situation is handled comparatively to Contador's is of very relevant discussion. The UCI is under the microscope for this as they are or were cycling's golden boys.

no it is not relevant.
this thread is about time delays in contador's case, not about armstrong samples handling. it's only relevant if your brain is stuck on proving your grudges against others.

 

[hrotha]

the thing that you have to keep in mind, as i noted in an earlier post, that dehp is:
(i) not validated
(ii) we don't know if the leak was valid
(iii) if it was valid, which rider did it belong to
(iv) if the other top 5-10 did not show DEHP
(v) if it agreed with the only officially validated method - biopass
etc...etc

it just simply can't be applied for in legally defensible manner w/o something more substantial. thus, as i said a million times, it's practically worthless as a standalone test, even after the validation. this fuzziness works in contador's favour

I'm pretty sure WADA has acknowledged the reported DEHP test results for Contador are real.