Understanding Omerta

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Seeing such candid quotes of Jacques Anquetil about doping in cycling - and pressuming that they were circa the mid 1960's - makes me think that maybe this Omerta thing hasn't always been around.

Is it right to think that Omerta came in by way of Tom Simpson's death?

I'd suspect too that it was initially meant to better the public appearance of the sport - just do your dope in private, and for God's sake don't talk to the public about it! - but eventually many/most/all stakeholders in cycling found that it served a valuable purpose.

PMCG76 wanted to know how to defeat Omerta... well, I think we need to cut the damn thing open and have ourselves a look.

 

[issoisso]

Seeing such candid quotes of Jacques Anquetil about doping in cycling - and pressuming that they were circa the mid 1960's - makes me think that maybe this Omerta thing hasn't always been around.

Is it right to think that Omerta came in by way of Tom Simpson's death?

I'd suspect too that it was initially meant to better the public appearance of the sport - just do your dope in private, and for God's sake don't talk to the public about it! - but eventually many/most/all stakeholders in cycling found that it served a valuable purpose.

PMCG76 wanted to know how to defeat Omerta... well, I think we need to cut the damn thing open and have ourselves a look.

The only thing that came about through Simpson's death was the first doping test in the history of the sport.

As the Wiels affair in 1962 shows us, the Omerta was around before that. The sense of entitlement to dope has filled the minds of the peloton pretty much since cycling exists.

In fact, when the Pelissier brothers gave an interview discussing the doping practices in the early 1920s, the reaction of the peloton was very much the same.

The omerta's as old as doping in this sport....which is as old as this sport.

The idea is simple. The riders "know" for a fact that they are entitled to dope, that it's something the have the right to do and also the obligation to do, to get by. And they're mightily ****ed off every time the issue is brought to light. Until the past couple of years when it became good PR to kick those that have been caught and pretend to be disappointed/mad at them, the reaction the riders all had for all these decades had been to defend those caught.

When I see riders reacting to positive tests of others by screaming that they've been robbed and trying to come to blows with the dopers that beat them.....then I'll believe something's changed.

 

[Epicycle]

Les Woodland has a couple of good articles on the subject.
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2006/woodland_riders_strike

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/worlds08/?id=/features/2008/woodland_merckx_worlds08

 

[forty four]

if you cant do the time dont do the crime and if you get caught dont be a rat nothing worse. im all for attempting to stop doping through testing etc... but i dont care for the kohls and simonis of the peloton. the omerta is not so much only in cycling its just how most are raised dont be a rat.

 

[scribe]

I'd rather cyclists rat out the doping doctors for leniency rather than calling out other cyclists. The temptation make up crap to settle a score is a bit too seductive. Most claims are impossible to prove but they can be quite damaging in spite of the lack of evidence.

 

[the truth.]

if you cant do the time dont do the crime and if you get caught dont be a rat nothing worse. im all for attempting to stop doping through testing etc... but i dont care for the kohls and simonis of the peloton. the omerta is not so much only in cycling its just how most are raised dont be a rat.

44 ur a mutton head- Do you care for the health and future young cyclists? Drugs damage not only physical but mental health. Say your kid went racing for a team and was given quantities of PEDs -would it be OK?

................as long as no one said anything?

look at the sad life of FVB. Do you think his life would have played out like that if the sport was clean- Ask his dad.

'Dont be a Rat ?"- Are you in kindergarden? This is about our sport. Honor is protecting the sport and getting the cheating rats out. Anyone who stands up and safeguards the future of the sport need commending.
Rather have the honesty of Kohl than the continued lies of Ricco.

 

[red_explosions]

44 ur a mutton head- Do you care for the health and future young cyclists? Drugs damage not only physical but mental health. Say your kid went racing for a team and was given quantities of PEDs -would it be OK?

................as long as no one said anything?

look at the sad life of FVB. Do you think his life would have played out like that if the sport was clean- Ask his dad.

'Dont be a Rat ?"- Are you in kindergarden? This is about our sport. Honor is protecting the sport and getting the cheating rats out. Anyone who stands up and safeguards the future of the sport need commending.
Rather have the honesty of Kohl than the continued lies of Ricco.

Spot on. I'd rather watch a clean rider slogging his way up a mountain than some jacked up freak flying up it breathing through his nose. Doping (blood doping in particular) has pretty much destroyed pro cycling as a credible spectacle. I still watch it but it's impossible to be sure about who is and isn't on the juice.

The only people responsible for turning cycling into a comedy act are the dopers, their doctors and the various supporters of the dumb omerta.

 

[rhubroma]

Seeing such candid quotes of Jacques Anquetil about doping in cycling - and pressuming that they were circa the mid 1960's - makes me think that maybe this Omerta thing hasn't always been around.

Is it right to think that Omerta came in by way of Tom Simpson's death?

I'd suspect too that it was initially meant to better the public appearance of the sport - just do your dope in private, and for God's sake don't talk to the public about it! - but eventually many/most/all stakeholders in cycling found that it served a valuable purpose.

PMCG76 wanted to know how to defeat Omerta... well, I think we need to cut the damn thing open and have ourselves a look.

Society has changed dramatically since he 60's. Above all the corporate world, in its pesent form, didn't exist, nor in cycling had the anglo-american "ethical" standards of sport (percieved though not real of course) yet play a considerable role on the need for such a hypocritical omertà culture within it.

Naturally omertà existed then in a sport that was dominated by the Latin populations with the exception of Belgium. Yet in France, Italy (from which the mafia associated term "omertà" is derived) and Spain, just as in Belgium a different "ethic" held sway. For these societies have always tended to accept that a certain amount of corruption, wether percieved or real, exists in sport just as in politics and, consequently, herin I think lies Anquetil's frankness in regards to doping. A frankness which today in the sport would naturally be unimaginable, given the hyper-controled and image based corporate world and the new (since then) influence of the so-called anglo-american ethic - which in a reactionary sense began with Simpson's tragedy, though as a more pervasive patern began to formulate with Lemond that caused a need for the port to conform to the expectaions of the US market.

 

[issoisso]

Society has changed dramatically since he 60's. Above all the corporate world, in its pesent form, didn't exist, nor in cycling had the anglo-american "ethical" standards of sport (percieved though not real of course) yet play a considerable role on the need for such a hypocritical omertà culture within it.

Naturally omertà existed then in a sport that was dominated by the Latin populations with the exception of Belgium. Yet in France, Italy (from which the mafia associated term "omertà" is derived) and Spain, just as in Belgium a different "ethic" held sway. For these societies have always tended to accept that a certain amount of corruption, wether percieved or real, exists in sport just as in politics and, consequently, herin I think lies Anquetil's frankness in regards to doping. A frankness which today in the sport would naturally be unimaginable, given the hyper-controled and image based corporate world and the new (since then) influence of the so-called anglo-american ethic - which in a reactionary sense began with Simpson's tragedy, though as a more pervasive patern began to formulate with Lemond that caused a need for the port to conform to the expectaions of the US market.

Yes, latin european cultures are evil and anglophones are the forces of light. Quick, Let's all burn those euros at the stake!

Misinformed stereotyping FTW

 

[Cobber]

if you cant do the time dont do the crime and if you get caught dont be a rat nothing worse. im all for attempting to stop doping through testing etc... but i dont care for the kohls and simonis of the peloton. the omerta is not so much only in cycling its just how most are raised dont be a rat.

What the hell did Simoni do?

 

[goggalor]

Rather have the honesty of Kohl than the continued lies of Ricco.

To be fair, when compared to certain other riders who have been busted, Riccò has actually been rather forthcoming.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riccardo_Riccò#The_hearing_and_verdict

 

[issoisso]

What the hell did Simoni do?

"My positive test for cocaine? Oh....uhh.....that was....uhh...that was in some candy my grandmother gave me.".

Cocaine candy?

"Yeah, she....uh....brought it from Peru"

Amazingly, that excuse worked. He was acquited, despite the positive.

 

[rhubroma]

Yes, latin european cultures are evil and anglophones are the forces of light. Quick, Let's all burn those euros at the stake!

Misinformed stereotyping FTW

If you read my post, I clearly stated "perceptions."

In any case, I've lived in one of the Latin cultures (which I love by the way) for the last 15 years so I know what I'm talking about. If anything the anglo cultures are simply more puritanical and to a certain degree more hypocritcal.

By contrast omertà, beyond cylcling, in the Southern European culture is a real problem - especially for the southerners, who simply can't do away with it because it is for them also cultural. Everything else is just politically correct thinking that has no basis in reality.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

...Until the past couple of years when it became good PR to kick those that have been caught and pretend to be disappointed/mad at them, the reaction the riders all had for all these decades had been to defend those caught.

When I see riders reacting to positive tests of others by screaming that they've been robbed and trying to come to blows with the dopers that beat them.....then I'll believe something's changed.

Correct. And this is why I believe shame will be a motivator in the future. When riders are more often caught than not, and are shunned and shamed by other riders and the public for attempting to dope, and for not speaking up, then things will change with the omerta. But this may never happen.

What the hell did Simoni do?

He was referring to Fillipo Simeoni, not Gilberto Simoni. The former spat in the soup by confessing to doping and fingering Lance's favorite supplying doctor, Michele Ferrari. The latter tested positive for cocaine during the 2002 Giro, which was later reversed when he supplied Peruvian candies made with cocoa, which he says match what he tested positive for. I loved watching the guy race, one of my favorites, but this is a pretty convenient excuse if you ask me.

 

[Mellow Velo]

What the hell did Simoni do?

Confuse the fanboys.

 

[craig1985]

I've always had the impression that is if Armstrong did to Simoni, what he did to Simeoni, Lance would of got a punch in the face.

 

[Angliru]

... but i dont care for the kohls and simonis of the peloton. the omerta is not so much only in cycling its just how most are raised dont be a rat.

Just for the sake of accuracy and fairness its Simeoni, not Gilberto Simoni, who just so happens to be one of my favorite riders. In Simeoni's defense, he was called to testify and by law was obligated to tell the truth. Had the truth come out after he had declined or lied, if had done so, wouldn't he have been in even a deeper hole? Your advice reminds me of the "Don't Be a Snitch" mantra that circulates in the inner cities to discourage witnesses to crimes from stepping forward for fear of reprisal. What kind of message are you sending?

 

[Angliru]

I've always had the impression that is if Armstrong did to Simoni, what he did to Simeoni, Lance would of got a punch in the face.

No doubt.

 

[issoisso]

More importantly, if Pozzato had berated Simoni the way he berated and threatened Simeoni for denouncing Ferrari, Pozzato would've been beaten to a bloody pulp.

And that would've benefited mankind far more.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Just for the sake of accuracy and fairness its Simeoni, not Gilberto Simoni, who just so happens to be one of my favorite riders. In Simeoni's defense, he was called to testify and by law was obligated to tell the truth. Had the truth come out after he had declined or lied, if had done so, wouldn't he have been in even a deeper hole? Your advice reminds me of the "Don't Be a Snitch" mantra that circulates in the inner cities to discourage witnesses to crimes from stepping forward for fear of reprisal. What kind of message are you sending?

Or the thread where BPC (in one of his many incarnations) argued that Betsy Andreu should have done the "honorable thing" and lied her a$$ off.

 

[craig1985]

More importantly, if Pozzato had berated Simoni the way he berated and threatened Simeoni for denouncing Ferrari, Pozzato would've been beaten to a bloody pulp.

And that would've benefited mankind far more.

I'm obviously having a brainfade, but how on earth did it have anything to do with Pozzato, other then venting his opinion on Simeoni.

 

[issoisso]

I'm obviously having a brainfade, but how on earth did it have anything to do with Pozzato, other then venting his opinion on Simeoni.

According to Simeoni in a few different interviews, Pozzato was by far the guy in the peloton who Simeoni the worst about the whole thing. Death threats, etc.

 

[craig1985]

Simeoni retorted in saying that Pozzato "is a legend in front of his own mirror".

 

[issoisso]

Simeoni retorted in saying that Pozzato "is a legend in front of his own mirror".

Given Pozzato's monstrous ego and "no one in the world measures up to me" attitude, that sounds about right.

 

[Bluebeard]

Simeoni retorted in saying that Pozzato "is a legend in front of his own mirror".

Every time I hear something like this about Simeoni, I like him more

I hope he has a contract for next season, now the Boss is pushing his weight about once more.