"Unfortunately I never doped" : Benoît Joachim

[eyemgh]

I read the version on CN and all I could think was "what a moron." Come on, there's no organized doping, yet everyone was introduced to product and doctors. Give me a break. The guy's a buffoon.

 

[GuidoG]

Joachim

http://www.2cycle.be/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6956&perpage=20&pagenumber=113

NO doubt he was a doper on USPS. His comments are simply lip service saying he didnt "use Ferrari" but should have.
He definitly doped like the rest of the USPS team but nevertheless wasnt as good as his other teamates so he wants us to think (and now his great lament) is that he wouldve been better if he had been on the full program much like Levi, George and others who went on to better carreers than he ever could.

He did in fact go bury his stash in the woods when the police showed up as the team mechanic attested.

 

[Christian]

He ain't very "BRYTE". He knew all about Dr. OJ, he knew what the others were doing, he knew what he was being offered, doping wise. His real concerns were. 1) Its really really expensive, and no amount of dope $$ can turn a nag like me into a thoroughbred. 2) I'm scared my blood will turn to Jello and I'll die, 3) A looser like me will get caught for sure.. I'll stick to cheap products that only get you a slap on the wrist if caught. What kind of idiot do you think I am?

But those other guys! The ones who spent the money, took the BIG SHYTe, made the moolaa.... THEY should have come forward long ago... not ME! Even though I knew everything, and did enough dope to still be called a "pro", I had no obligation to speak out. What kind of idiot do you think I am?

....Years later, ( "Hello Lance? Its Me, Bennie. Yeah, Betsy gave me your number... Say, think you could send a few samolians my way if I go on record saying I never say organized doping in the Bus? No? What about Johan? Think he's got the Do Re Mi?"..... "click" of receiver. "Boy, do I feel like an idiot!

Spot on analysis, respect.

 

[mountainrman]

He would have preferred to have been a star, made lots of money, and then be in the same situation as his old team mates. That's borderline offensive, and doesn't exactly send a good signal to the next generation of cyclists. Jealous of the Schlecks and their choices?

It is a direct result of seeing how disgracefully low the sanctions were against the rest of the team such as Hincapie.

Tygart has reaped what he sowed in those sentences which radiate "we dont care about doping by most of the riders, just scapegoating a few high profile names."
That statement is the proof.

It disappointed me that neither WADA nor UCI appealed the clear breaches of sentencing guidelines with lifetime serial cheat and fraudster hincapie and others, and it is further evidence that USADA may be fit to investigate doping - they are clearly unfit to sanction it

By tradition all of the tour winning prize money goes to support riders so Hincapie earned a fortune from cheating, and his sentence proves to all that "crime does pay" leading inexorably to Joachim concluding as he has

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

It is a direct result of seeing how disgracefully low the sanctions were against the rest of the team such as Hincapie.

Tygart has reaped what he sowed in those sentences which radiate "we dont care about doping by most of the riders, just scapegoating a few high profile names."
That statement is the proof.

It disappointed me that neither WADA nor UCI appealed the clear breaches of sentencing guidelines with lifetime serial cheat and fraudster hincapie and others, and it is further evidence that USADA may be fit to investigate doping - they are clearly unfit to sanction it

By tradition all of the tour winning prize money goes to support riders so Hincapie earned a fortune from cheating, and his sentence proves to all that "crime does pay" leading inexorably to Joachim concluding as he has

Hi Lance.

(10)

 

[Cloxxki]

On the subject of forgotten trekkies.
Did we ever hear back from Max van Heeswijk anyways? Or is he still in the knot he tied for himself, hiding in his cave?

 

[goggalor]

Jealous of Levi and the Garmin boys, maybe? Doped for years, made piles of cash, received a pointless ban and a line through their results on wikipedia.

Well, Levi actually got canned, only the Garmin gang truly got away with it.

 

[hrotha]

The bottom line is that, even if you get a 2-year suspension, doping still pays. You're sacrificing 2 years of a career you wouldn't have had otherwise. That's not USADA's fault, it's a problem with the system, which still makes doping the smarter option, ethical questions aside.

 

[del1962]

The bottom line is that, even if you get a 2-year suspension, doping still pays. You're sacrificing 2 years of a career you wouldn't have had otherwise. That's not USADA's fault, it's a problem with the system, which still makes doping the smarter option, ethical questions aside.

I guess that depends if you can dope without any harm to your long term health

 

[Roninho]

Instead of patting himself on the back for keeping clean (according to him), he goes on to say he should've doped. Obviously it would have been for the money. So if it was for money why he didn't do it? He claims he didn't do it for economic reasons, health, and the third was afraid of having a positive test.

I really don't get what kind of values this guy has.

He makes it quite clear that moral issues with doping were not one of the reasons for not doping.

If you don't have a moral issue with doping and look at his stated reasons for not doping i could actually see why he ends up thinking: "man i should have doped".

[] Guys like Hincapie, Leipheimer, Zabriskie etc. certainly benefitted way more financially then what it cost them to buy the dope. So his ecomic reason for not going for dope makes no sense looking back, especially taken into account that the dope seemed to make a significant impact
[] I don't think his fellow colleagues who doped had long term effects from the dope from a health aspect.
[] Nobody got popped for dope, and the ones who did ended up with a small penalty.

Looking at those 3 arguments i can see his reasoning. We can blame him for not having the moral values to not want to dope (and we can seriously question if he didn't dope anyway), but based on why he claims to not have doped he probably would have been better of financially and in terms of results if he had doped.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Off Topic:

Read here one more time that Joachim is gay, is this true?

 

[cineteq]

He makes it quite clear that moral issues with doping were not one of the reasons for not doping.

If you don't have a moral issue with doping and look at his stated reasons for not doping i could actually see why he ends up thinking: "man i should have doped".

[] Guys like Hincapie, Leipheimer, Zabriskie etc. certainly benefitted way more financially then what it cost them to buy the dope. So his ecomic reason for not going for dope makes no sense looking back, especially taken into account that the dope seemed to make a significant impact
[] I don't think his fellow colleagues who doped had long term effects from the dope from a health aspect.
[] Nobody got popped for dope, and the ones who did ended up with a small penalty.

Looking at those 3 arguments i can see his reasoning. We can blame him for not having the moral values to not want to dope (and we can seriously question if he didn't dope anyway), but based on why he claims to not have doped he probably would have been better of financially and in terms of results if he had doped.

I understand he's reasoning, and I don't have a moral issue. But he's arguments are too weak not to have doped, and he seems to be the guy who loves money. Thus what he says doesn't make sense based on what he is. Translation he was a donkey and he didn't improve enough with doping like the others, and Ferrari probably didn't bother having him on a program. And now he's trying to look like a victim of the system by saying he should've doped.

 

[Roninho]

I understand he's reasoning, and I don't have a moral issue. But he's arguments are too weak not to have doped, and he seems to be the guy who loves money. Thus what he says doesn't make sense based on what he is. Translation he was a donkey and he didn't improve enough with doping like the others, and Ferrari probably didn't bother having him on a program. And now he's trying to look like a victim of the system by saying he should've doped.

? I'm sorry, but why are the arguments weak? Imho thinking 10 years ago that EPO, growht hormone and blood tranfusions could have serious health issues long term wasn't a weak argument. The same for thinking that the odds of getting caught were substnatially higher then they were in reality (as a team armstrong cyclist).

If you think that you will be caught in the next few years, and will drop dead 10 years from now is it that strange to not dope, even though you like money very much?

Again, i don't think Joachim didn't dope, but imo his story is a lot better then the 'Armstrong/us postal doping? No i had never expected something like that' what we heard all along the last month or so.

 

[cineteq]

If you think that you will be caught in the next few years, and will drop dead 10 years from now is it that strange to not dope, even though you like money very much?

I have no issues with that part of the story, but the plot-hole of the story is that he said he should have doped!!!!

 

[Christian]

Off Topic:

Read here one more time that Joachim is gay, is this true?

It is rumoured

 

[RHRH19861986]

It is rumoured

OK, thanks

 

[D-Queued]

Who cares?

The only reason I can see sexual preference being discussed is to somehow to discredit the entire thread.

Dave.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

He did test positive. For nandrolone (steroids). His national fed let him off with a lame excuse that I don't recall. I think it was something to do with the time between when the A and B samples were tested.

quite possibly he didn't dope seriously until the nandrolon thing and was an "accident"(nandrolon is bull**** product anyway) that made him too afraid to really dope afterwards and or work with ferrari. what I remember of joachim is his hatred for bruyneel and him saying one time: "bruyneels greatest assett is that he's a great liar." he was 100% spot on, on that one.

also he's full of **** when he says he was as good as hamilton when he started. one look at results prooves otherwise. unless I forgot a 12th place in the tour by joachim.

still in early usps tour years only the climbers got dope. so joachim might be right there as I think he only did the tour in the earlier years few times.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I guess that depends if you can dope without any harm to your long term health

well guys like gianetti, ugrumov and riis are still alive and healthy, so I wouldn't worrie about that and I doubt any rider ever worried about that

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I understand he's reasoning, and I don't have a moral issue. But he's arguments are too weak not to have doped, and he seems to be the guy who loves money. Thus what he says doesn't make sense based on what he is. Translation he was a donkey and he didn't improve enough with doping like the others, and Ferrari probably didn't bother having him on a program. And now he's trying to look like a victim of the system by saying he should've doped.

again you are missing the point completely. him being in love with money is a good reaosn for not doping as it cost him money to be with ferrari

 

[hrotha]

well guys like gianetti, ugrumov and riis are still alive and healthy, so I wouldn't worrie about that and I doubt any rider ever worried about that

These guys are just now hitting or approaching their 50s. It's way too early to tell.

 

[arjanh]

well guys like gianetti, ugrumov and riis are still alive and healthy, so I wouldn't worrie about that and I doubt any rider ever worried about that

Dunno. How many of the EPO-fueled riders have had knee surgery? Quite a few, IIRC.

 

[D-Queued]

Dunno. How many of the EPO-fueled riders have had knee surgery? Quite a few, IIRC.

I had knee surgery. How come I missed out on the EPO connection?

Dave.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Dunno. How many of the EPO-fueled riders have had knee surgery? Quite a few, IIRC.

and how many non epo users have had knee surgery? even more