Uno-X Pro Cycling Team

[Broccolidwarf]

Only 4.9% of top1000 riders according to PCS ranking are either Norwegian or Danish so you can already see how much of a limitation it is. And out of these 4.9% some are bound to end up at other teams than Uno-X.

What do you mean "only"?

This debate started with people saying Norway and Denmark had to small a population base for the project.

4,9 % is 700 times better than the share of world population, so you are making my point, that it matters what countries are specifically in question

Obviously it is easier to be able to pick riders from all over the world, but saying a Norwegian/Danish squad can't work is far from the truth.

I mean, the top 20 on the list is:

Fuglsang, Asgreen, Mads P., Kragh, Vingegaard, Kristoff, Honore, Foss, Hoelgaard, Tiller, Cort, Halvorsen, Kron, Valgren, Casper P., Leknessund, Moerkoev, Wurtz, Bystroem, Skjelmose.

With another 5-10 Doms to complete it, that would be one of the strongest teams on the WT.

Obviously a team would be hard pressed to sign them all, but even signing half of them, would still be plenty good to be competitive on the WT, and one should not discount that many of these riders would love riding for a "local" team, if the money is adequate and the sporting prospects fair.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Is that legal? Norway is in the EFTA, which has freedom of movement with the EU for labour. It would seem very odd for a private company to be able to publicly state a policy of only employing people of two nationalities for its key roles.

It is also the epitome of discrimination based on something other than ability, so no matter how much I might find the racing style of this team admirable, I really cannot feel positive towards them.

Given contracts in sports are given in a different process than normal jobs (with open applications etc) I don’t think it’s a legal problem. I haven’t seen EU laws making problems for Ahtletic Bilbao for example.

 

[yaco]

Why would that happen? Are Bike Exchange still in the precarious situation like last year, prior to Manuela Fundacion?

The team is self-funded by Gerry Ryan who has made a commitment till 2022 - He will sell the license to a worthy entity - And it makes sense from a logistical point of view.

 

[yaco]

Given the UnoX boss said they want to continue with only Norwegian and Danish riders there are 2 out of 27 BikeExchange riders that are interesting, so I doubt a merge here is likely.
If they want to become WT they need a lot of good results next season. For that they need good riders (Kristoff and Bystrøm will be very good signings for example).

Uno X will have a mixed team as you can't rely on two nationalities unless you hit the CT scene hard which could make for a inauspicious start for the new team - Buying a WT licence is the way to go like Intermarche.

 

[SigurdJ]

Med herrelaget ønsker vi per nå å beholde tanken om et lag kun bestående av norske og danske ryttere, sier Uno-X-sjefen. "

In English: "for the mens team we want to keep the idea of a team ONLY having Norwegians and Danish riders"

Direct translation word for word: "With the mens team we wish for now to keep the idea....."

If they get to WT they will more likely than not sign riders from other countries. It's just right now they want to stay with Norway and Denmark.

 

[MnR]

One license that may be sold is the one from Qhubeka. The already have a few Danes and don´t have a huge number of riders under contract for 2022.

If they really want to step up to WT, i hope that they don´t be a exclusive team for Danes, Norwegian, but to have a great core from this to nations but allow a few other.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

One license that may be sold is the one from Qhubeka. The already have a few Danes and don´t have a huge number of riders under contract for 2022.

If they really want to step up to WT, i hope that they don´t be a exclusive team for Danes, Norwegian, but to have a great core from this to nations but allow a few other.

I haven't checked, but I would venture a guess, that very few WT riders are actually under contract beyond 2022, and a significant number don't have a contract beyond this year.

I think Covid19 meant, that a lot of teams pushed contract negotiations back, in the face of an uncertain future, so that far more riders are close to the end of their contract.

 

[RedheadDane]

Here's a list of riders without a contract for next year (officially, some may have one already of course):

Riders without next season contract | ProCyclingStats

 

[OlavEH]

It is also the epitome of discrimination based on something other than ability, so no matter how much I might find the racing style of this team admirable, I really cannot feel positive towards them.

It's still much preferable to teams like UAE, Bahrain and also Israel Start-up Nation, teams from countries with no cycling traditions and none or close to none riders from the country of the team.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

How are they discriminatory?

 

[OlavEH]

How are they discriminatory?

Not about discrimination, just that those teams, especially UAE and Bahrain, are close to impossible to symphatize with.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

How are they discriminatory?

You are taking too narrow a view.

Given the choice, would you rather have a WT team solely with Norwegian and Danish riders, financed by an above board Norwegian company - or a multinational team financed by a dictatorship?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I gave a reason why I would not feel good about a key policy of the team that this thread is about. I am not aware that any other team has the same policy (one comes very close, but can at least claim some sort of tradition as being upheld), and have no idea why anyone thinks that what teams are likeable or dislikeable for other reasons has got anything to do with this thread.

If you want to debate whether Uno-X's policy is discriminatory, this seems a relevant thread to do so: if you wish to discuss the human rights records of the governments of Israel, Bahrain or the UAE, or whether it is acceptable for teams to be registered in a country with little history in the sport and few current riders, it is not.

And don't tell me that my view is too narrow when I have never discussed my opinion of those teams in this forum, and you therefore have no knowledge of my view. Nor am I interested in anyone thinking that they can tell me which teams I should or should not like.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I gave a reason why I would not feel good about a key policy of the team that this thread is about. I am not aware that any other team has the same policy (one comes very close, but can at least claim some sort of tradition as being upheld), and have no idea why anyone thinks that what teams are likeable or dislikeable for other reasons has got anything to do with this thread.

If you want to debate whether Uno-X's policy is discriminatory, this seems a relevant thread to do so: if you wish to discuss the human rights records of the governments of Israel, Bahrain or the UAE, or whether it is acceptable for teams to be registered in a country with little history in the sport and few current riders, it is not.

And don't tell me that my view is too narrow when I have never discussed my opinion of those teams in this forum, and you therefore have no knowledge of my view. Nor am I interested in anyone thinking that they can tell me which teams I should or should not like.

I think you are missing my point dude - and it is not at all confrontational, you are absolutely entitled to feel as you do.

I am merely questioning the logic of those feelings.

The point I was trying to make was, that it's illogical to use morality as an argument, without applying it to the whole peloton.

You are right that I don't know if you do that already, and think sponsors like UAE and Bahrain should be kicked out of the sport, and if that is the case, I apologise for calling your views "narrow"

 

[OlavEH]

I gave a reason why I would not feel good about a key policy of the team that this thread is about. I am not aware that any other team has the same policy (one comes very close, but can at least claim some sort of tradition as being upheld), and have no idea why anyone thinks that what teams are likeable or dislikeable for other reasons has got anything to do with this thread.

It was you who wrote "so no matter how much I might find the racing style of this team admirable, I really cannot feel positive towards them ". Is it any other way to perceive this that Uno-X woudn't be a likeable team with this kind of strategy? And in that case it would be relevant to compare with other teams which for other reasons are much less possible to feel positive towards. Like UAE and Bahrain.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I think you are missing my point dude - and it is not at all confrontational, you are absolutely entitled to feel as you do.

I am merely questioning the logic of those feelings.

The point I was trying to make was, that it's illogical to use morality as an argument, without applying it to the whole peloton.

You are right that I don't know if you do that already, and think sponsors like UAE and Bahrain should be kicked out of the sport, and if that is the case, I apologise for calling your views "narrow"

I don't think it is illogical to consider an employment policy based on nationality as discriminatory.

I would find it easier to accept your apology if it were not dependent on my agreeing with you.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It was you who wrote "so no matter how much I might find the racing style of this team admirable, I really cannot feel positive towards them ". Is it any other way to perceive this that Uno-X woudn't be a likeable team with this kind of strategy?

Not really. Do you like discrimination?

And in that case it would be relevant to compare with other teams which for other reasons are much less possible to feel positive towards. Like UAE and Bahrain.

Is it your contention that discrimination is less of a fault than being from a nation that does not have a strong cycling tradition? Because that was your objection to them in post 59.

 

[OlavEH]

Not really. Do you like discrimination?

No, but I still don't think it would be especially criticizable.

Is it your contention that discrimination is less of a fault than being from a nation that does not have a strong cycling tradition? Because that was your objection to them in post 59.

No, I could also add the same argument as Broccolidwarf. But it is combination. Those two countries are never gonna produce a top class cyclist. What they do is purely sportwashing, nothing else. It is two teams that are completely impossible to have any kind of sympathy towards.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

The team is self-funded by Gerry Ryan who has made a commitment till 2022 - He will sell the license to a worthy entity - And it makes sense from a logistical point of view.

Thanks. Couldn't remember the details and couldn't find anything that really said the situation after the cancelling of the takeover by the foundation.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No, but I still don't think it would be especially criticizable.

No, I could also add the same argument as Broccolidwarf. But it is combination. Those two countries are never gonna produce a top class cyclist. What they do is purely sportwashing, nothing else. It's two teams that are completely impossible to have any kind of sympathy towards.

Whether I or anyone else agrees with the opinion that you present as fact, as I have said, has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

But if you do not think that nationalist discrimination in employment is criticisable I am not sure I have anything to discuss with you about ethics.

 

[OlavEH]

Whether I or anyone else agrees with the opinion that you present as fact, as I have said, has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

But if you do not think that nationalist discrimination in employment is criticisable I am not sure I have anything to discuss with you about ethics.

Yeah, a pro cycling team is a completely normal employer. Just like any other business in the EU.

And of course those Arab teams are sportwashing. You have to be pretty far from reality not to see that. And it is also relevant since you explicility are talking about reasons not to like a specific team. Then it is defintely relevant to compare with other teams on the same level.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Don't try to tell me that I am far from reality: I have not commented on the ethics of those teams in this thread, simply because it is not relevant. I have certainly not tried to defend them, here or anywhere else in this forum, nor am I ever likely to do so.

I am not writing about "reasons not to like a specific team": I said that there is one very specific reason that I can't feel positive about this team, the subject of this thread. You are entitled to have a contrary opinion.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think it would only be discriminating if, say, a Belgian rider inquired about a contract, he fit all the criteria for the kind of rider they needed, and their only reason not to sign him was the fact that he wasn't Norwegian/Danish.

 

[OlavEH]

Don't try to tell me that I am far from reality: I have not commented on the ethics of those teams in this thread, simply because it is not relevant. I have certainly not tried to defend them, here or anywhere else in this forum, nor am I ever likely to do so.

It is relevant to put things into context. Even if Uno-X chooses a policy like that if they reach WT level in 2023, it's still a real minor issue compared to many other things in cycling.

I am not writing about "reasons not to like a specific team": I said that there is one very specific reason that I can't feel positive about this team, the subject of this thread. You are entitled to have a contrary opinion.

So now we're down to semantics. Plural or singular. You're really a quarrelsome type.

 

[BlueRoads]

I don't see how UAE and so on are relevant here, either. Just because there are other things badly wrong in cycling, doesn't mean discrimination is okay. However I suppose we have all stated our opinion here by now and nobody will change the other one's view.