USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[Semper Fidelis]

Damn it seems that page is getting some hate, I couldn't get caught up in that arguing with anonymous internet handles is one thing but arguing with people over facebook of the type who once they start arguing would never admit they are wrong would drive me crazy.

USADA said they would release some of their evidence within five day's so I hope it contains some kind of reference to an affadavit from big george because that will at least silence a few of these insane/misguided hero worshippers.

Facebook and Twitter is a cluster ****. No one knows who is talking with whom. Most folks seem to have self confidence issues and that is why they tweet and post **** all day long.

I have tried to follow conversations on these two places and it is like watching a tv show where there is 20 different plot on multiple screens happening.

You have people posting or tweeting about minor things from their takes on a race to having wine with the pope. Or someone is posting up mundane takes on the paraolympics etc.

It is a "mind Bottleing" experience no doubt.

Feel free to flame away as is per the usual here.

 

[cineteq]

Is this communiqué legit?
http://www.ffc.fr/com/imgAdmin/_Actualites/2012/Communique_Amstrong.pdf

 

[kcycle12]

Is this communiqué legit?
http://www.ffc.fr/com/imgAdmin/_Actualites/2012/Communique_Amstrong.pdf

What does it say?

 

[hrotha]

What does it say?

They've been following the case closely, they welcome USADA's efforts, LA's decision not to contest the ban equals an admission of guilt, the wins LA just lost should be left vacated, they want their prize money back (~€3 million).

 

[Orvieto]

I've been seeing a lot of comments by posters in mainstream news sites picking up on the jurisdiction argument put forward by Armstrong's PR team. Usually it's by new posters or posters with no history of posting on cycling stories.
They'll say things like:

"How can a U.S. organization strip anyone of medals they won in France?"
"USADA is irrelavent (sic) UCI is governing body."

Armstrong's PR team has been very good at seeding this little rationalization. Does it make you think that Lance and team know something about how UCI will react? The UCI wouldn't seriously defy WADA would it? Could they be preparing a statement that says something like "We reluctantly are removing his name from the list of official winners, but we disagree with our colleagues at the USADA and Lance will always be the champion of our hearts." or some such drivel?

 

[Microchip]

A report here (in English).

 

[Benotti69]

Is this communiqué legit?
http://www.ffc.fr/com/imgAdmin/_Actualites/2012/Communique_Amstrong.pdf

What if he doesn't pay the 3million euro back?

Will he be arrested upon return to France or Europe if Interpol get on this?

Should Armstrong be officially stripped of his seven Tour wins by the International Cycling Union, the FFC thinks the titles should not be redistributed so as to “avoid all debate with regards to the credibility of the eventual winners

 

[cineteq]

They've been following the case closely, they welcome USADA's efforts, LA's decision not to contest the ban equals an admission of guilt, the wins LA just lost should be left vacated, they want their prize money back (~€3 million).

Pretty good summary.

 

[DirtyWorks]

They've been following the case closely, they welcome USADA's efforts, LA's decision not to contest the ban equals an admission of guilt, the wins LA just lost should be left vacated, they want their prize money back (~€3 million).

That's just one. The guy has almost a decade of appearance fees to work off.

Over at USACDF.org they took down Wonderboy's silver medal. I was thinking they'd just leave it up as accidentally overlooking an update like they did over here: http://www.usacycling.org/results/?compid=1917&all=1

 

[Turner29]

I don't like the idea that they think the UCI has ultimate authority in deciding if Armstrong's TdF will be vacated or not.

As much as I needed to hold my nose, I did like the way they praised the UCI for being a leader in the fight against doping.

 

[LauraLyn]

Is this communiqué legit?
http://www.ffc.fr/com/imgAdmin/_Actualites/2012/Communique_Amstrong.pdf

Yes. It is legit. This is a shorter posting on the FFC site: http://www.ffc.fr/a_encart_centraux/depeche_AFP.asp?news=sportdirect-direct-breves-128013-fr.xml

They also praise the UCI. Good political move here. The UCI will have a harder time to act against the French than the USADA.

They call these the "dark years of cycling".

A very strong statement praising USADA and strongly condemning Armstrong. Well written and well considered.

It makes one think that UCI has been consulted and they are on the same page. It does not bode well for Armstrong, but it does bode well for cycling and truth generally.

 

[Kennf1]

Luckily for Armstrong, the dollar is fairly strong against the Euro right now, so paying back prize money won't be as expensive as it would have been five years ago.

 

[DirtyWorks]

They also praise the UCI. Good political move here. The UCI will have a harder time to act against the French than the USADA.

They call these the "dark years of cycling".

A very strong statement praising USADA and strongly condemning Armstrong. Well written and well considered.

It makes one think that UCI has been consulted and they are on the same page. It does not bode well for Armstrong, but it does bode well for cycling and truth generally.

It is worth repeating, there are more than one UCI.
-There's the UCI that does the not very exciting work of coordinating calendars, making rules, coordinating international federations and all the mechanics of the Olympic show. What little I understand I read as praise for that end of the UCI.
-There's the UCI Pat and Hein operate that runs roughshod over the boring aspects of the UCI to meet their end games. This summary is part humor part fact: http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/tour-of-hangzhou-cancelled-amid-corruption-allegations WCP got a WorldTour slot for a race that hasn't ever been run. That's impossible unless you are Hein, Pat, and Alain.

 

[LauraLyn]

I don't like the idea that they think the UCI has ultimate authority in deciding if Armstrong's TdF will be vacated or not.

As much as I needed to hold my nose, I did like the way they praised the UCI for being a leader in the fight against doping.

No. This is not what the FFC press release states.

On the Globe and Mail site's translation indicated above the article states: "Should Armstrong be officially stripped of his seven Tour wins by the International Cycling Union, the FFC thinks the titles should not be redistributed."

However, this is not what the FFC statement says. There is no reference whatsoever to the ICU validating the USADA decision. The FFC press release praises the USADA and fully accepts its decision as it now stands. UCI is only mentioned as fighting doping. It is given no further role in this case.

 

[Turner29]

Yes. It is legit. This is a shorter posting on the FFC site: http://www.ffc.fr/a_encart_centraux/depeche_AFP.asp?news=sportdirect-direct-breves-128013-fr.xml

They also praise the UCI. Good political move here. The UCI will have a harder time to act against the French than the USADA.

They call these the "dark years of cycling".

A very strong statement praising USADA and strongly condemning Armstrong. Well written and well considered.

It makes one think that UCI has been consulted and they are on the same page. It does not bode well for Armstrong, but it does bode well for cycling and truth generally.

Yes, I liked the "dark years of cycling" and "closing the book"...

Overall, very, very well written, including praise for USADA's "perseverance."

 

[Turner29]

However, American fanboys will just view it as part of the French "conspiracy" to get Armstrong.

 

[LauraLyn]

It is worth repeating, there are more than one UCI.
-There's the UCI that does the not very exciting work of coordinating calendars, making rules, coordinating international federations and all the mechanics of the Olympic show. What little I understand I read as praise for that end of the UCI.
-There's the UCI Pat and Hein operate that runs roughshod over the boring aspects of the UCI to meet their end games. This summary is part humor part fact: http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/tour-of-hangzhou-cancelled-amid-corruption-allegations WCP got a WorldTour slot for a race that hasn't ever been run. That's impossible unless you are Hein, Pat, and Alain.

True. There have been two UCI's operating in the Lance case as well.

Recent events make it appear the Pat UCI is no longer in charge and he may be on his way out. We will see with the official response of the UCI to the USADA decision on Lance.

 

[LauraLyn]

However, American fanboys will just view it as part of the French "conspiracy" to get Armstrong.

It doesn't matter. This case is not being decided in the court of public opinion. It is being decided according to rules and law. Perhaps surprising, but so far that is how it is going. The media has not been able to control it, not even predict it.

Really, Travis Tygart and USADA are pretty amazing.

 

[DirtyWorks]

True. There have been two UCI's operating in the Lance case as well.

Recent events make it appear the Pat UCI is no longer in charge and he may be on his way out. We will see with the official response of the UCI to the USADA decision on Lance.

I concur! Pat's end may be coming, but the other conspirator Hein Verbruggen needs to go too. As has been said in other threads, Sylvia Schenk (sp?) in Pat's place and Patrice Clerc in Hein's spot. If Hein puts Alain Rumpf in Pat's chair, it's going to be more of the same.

This is all good news. It's going to be a slow-motion fail from here on out for Wonderboy. My hope is the organizers/federations will aggressively pursue getting some money back. The legal fees will be enormous for Wonderboy.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

USADA "Reasoned Decision"

Didn't Tygart indicate that his agency's "Reasoned Decision" report was to be submitted to the UCI today? Any info on the status of that? Will it be made public?

Merci and stuff

 

[Turner29]

It doesn't matter. This case is not being decided in the court of public opinion. It is being decided according to rules and law. Perhaps surprising, but so far that is how it is going. The media has not been able to control it, not even predict it.

Really, Travis Tygart and USADA are pretty amazing.

While I agree, I am 100% sure that if the US District Attorney now filed criminal charges against Armstrong, there would not be a conviction.

More and more, closing the Grand Jury investigation looks like the smart move.

 

[DirtyWorks]

While I agree, I am 100% sure that if the US District Attorney now filed criminal charges against Armstrong, there would not be a conviction.

More and more, closing the Grand Jury investigation looks like the smart move.

Given the way other doping trials closed recently I can see their justification. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now, but maybe this was the better end to the law enforcement investigation.

What's great is the guy can't help himself and will make himself look bad again from all the long-running legal and PR pressure.

 

[LauraLyn]

While I agree, I am 100% sure that if the US District Attorney now filed criminal charges against Armstrong, there would not be a conviction.

More and more, closing the Grand Jury investigation looks like the smart move.

Yes. Good point.

I had even been thinking that the Feds maybe decided to shut down shop for a while and let first the evidence come out through USADA and then go back with a stronger case for fraud. Perhaps that was too much thinking on my part, but it does seem that at the end of this a criminal case may be lurking for Armstrong and Co.

In any event the civil cases will keep Lance busy for the rest of his life. His threats of making life a living hell for others are starting to come home to roost.

 

[LauraLyn]

I concur! Pat's end may be coming, but the other conspirator Hein Verbruggen needs to go too. As has been said in other threads, Sylvia Schenk (sp?) in Pat's place and Patrice Clerc in Hein's spot. If Hein puts Alain Rumpf in Pat's chair, it's going to be more of the same.

This is all good news. It's going to be a slow-motion fail from here on out for Wonderboy. My hope is the organizers/federations will aggressively pursue getting some money back. The legal fees will be enormous for Wonderboy.

Pat is not the UCI. And Verbruggen is much more insolated than Pat. (Pat really played things stupidly. He was used by Verbruggen.)

Bringing down UCI is not (yet) in the cards. Especially if UCI accepts the USADA decision.

Remember, Armstrong was just one of the gladiators. UCI owns the circus.

Pat mistakenly thought of himself as UCI (and UCI's power). He will be informed of his mistake.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Yes. Good point.

I had even been thinking that the Feds maybe decided to shut down shop for a while and let first the evidence come out through USADA and then go back with a stronger case for fraud. Perhaps that was too much thinking on my part, but it does seem that at the end of this a criminal case may be lurking for Armstrong and Co.

In any event the civil cases will keep Lance busy for the rest of his life. His threats of making life a living hell for others are starting to come home to roost.

I think we have not seen the end of the Feds yet.
Lance will be busy vindicating himself..that's for sure.

It makes sense to expect that as it wears on we will see more defiant and outlandish behavior from mr Armstrong...it seems hard for him to lay low.

He will look increasingly agitated I am guessing...
his guilt will be manifested outwardly .