USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[Turner29]

Given the way other doping trials closed recently I can see their justification. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now, but maybe this was the better end to the law enforcement investigation.

What's great is the guy can't help himself and will make himself look bad again from all the long-running legal and PR pressure.

A reason for US Law favoring a parallel arbitration system for various professions and business situations is to keep complex, technical based cases out of the courts and in an arena where appropriate subject-matter expertise individuals can judge upon the evidence.

 

[Turner29]

Yes. Good point.

I had even been thinking that the Feds maybe decided to shut down shop for a while and let first the evidence come out through USADA and then go back with a stronger case for fraud. Perhaps that was too much thinking on my part, but it does seem that at the end of this a criminal case may be lurking for Armstrong and Co.

While at first I thought so, the simple fact that the American public are roughly 50/50 split on Armstrong indicates that getting a fraud conviction would be very, very difficult. Only one juror need to vote "not guilty" and the result is a hung jury and mistrial.

Maybe things will change in a year, but right now, imho, any DA would be foolish to bring criminal charges against Armstrong.

 

[LauraLyn]

I think we have not seen the end of the Feds yet.
Lance will be busy vindicating himself..that's for sure.

It makes sense to expect that as it wears on we will see more defiant and outlandish behavior from mr Armstrong...it seems hard for him to lay low.

He will look increasingly agitated I am guessing...
his guilt will be manifested outwardly .

Agree. Lance (and even the Lance Armstrong Foundation) appear to be really foolish. While the USADA is not a government organization, it does represent the government's interests and the US in an important international discussion. Lance and Co. so ostentatiously deriding and laughing at the just decision's of the USADA will not sit well with the government.

Arrogance and hubris, hubris and arrogance . . . this has been and will be Lance's undoing. He just cannot get over himself.

 

[Deagol]

It doesn't matter. This case is not being decided in the court of public opinion. It is being decided according to rules and law. Perhaps surprising, but so far that is how it is going. The media has not been able to control it, not even predict it.

Really, Travis Tygart and USADA are pretty amazing.

It is and it isn't (at least in the United States), if you know what I mean.

Lance is doing much much better in the PR battle , where facts are not as important, than he would do in actual arbitration. I am getting questions from non-cycling freinds as we speak. They have been misled. I am attempting to educate them...

 

[Turner29]

Arrogance and hubris, hubris and arrogance . . . this has been and will be Lance's undoing. He just cannot get over himself.

Classic sociopathic behavior.

 

[LauraLyn]

It is and it isn't (at least in the United States), if you know what I mean.

Lance is doing much much better in the PR battle , where facts are not as important, than he would do in actual arbitration. I am getting questions from non-cycling freinds as we speak. They have been misled. I am attempting to educate them...

True, it ain't over until the fat lady sings (or as someone put it even better here, until Oprah says it is).

But soon it will be Lance calling the fat lady (or saying, Please Oprah, let me come on your show and tell my teary eye story).

 

[Deagol]

True, it ain't over until the fat lady sings (or as someone put it even better here, until Oprah says it is).

But soon it will be Lance calling the fat lady (or saying, Please Oprah, let me come on your show and tell my teary eye story).

I really hope you are correct. Call me crazy, but I want justice & fairness to prevail.

However, the cynic in me exists as a response to how things usually go, when money and power are involved. I am suprised by how the masses are rallying behind this guy. I knew there would be some, but am suprised by the sheer quantity. I'm doing what I can to fight it.

 

[Microchip]

I really hope you are correct. Call me crazy, but I want justice & fairness to prevail.

However, the cynic in me exists as a response to how things usually go, when money and power are involved. I am suprised by how the masses are rallying behind this guy. I knew there would be some, but am suprised by the sheer quantity. I'm doing what I can to fight it.

Then don't read everything there is to read, about Armstrong. Stick to the good journalism sites and outlets. It's still too early in the game to start counting how many are still duped. Concentrate on the truthful outlets and you won't have to fight to think positive.

 

[python]

Is this communiqué legit?
http://www.ffc.fr/com/imgAdmin/_Actualites/2012/Communique_Amstrong.pdf

this is probably an indication that a world-wide pressure is about to be exerted on the uci NOT to appeal and step aside...or else.

likely the consequence of ffc receiving an unofficial (or draft) reasoned letter that the usada owed to uci, armstrong and wada and that was due last tuesday.

i find the reference to return those fraud-assisted prize money particularly ominous - a nod to aso to sue if the subject refused to do so and.... that the uci may find itself in courts too if it does not go along

 

[El Oso]

What if he doesn't pay the 3million euro back?

Will he be arrested upon return to France or Europe if Interpol get on this?

and spend some time with Floyd and Arnie

 

[mewmewmew13]

this is probably an indication that a world-wide pressure is about to be exerted on the uci NOT to appeal and step aside...or else.

likely the consequence of ffc receiving an unofficial (or draft) reasoned letter that the usada owed to uci, armstrong and wada and that was due last tuesday.

i find the reference to return those fraud-assisted prize money particularly ominous - a nod to aso to sue if the subject refused to do so and.... that the uci may find itself in courts too if it does not go along

That is how a read it too python.
Aligning...

 

[MarkvW]

this is probably an indication that a world-wide pressure is about to be exerted on the uci NOT to appeal and step aside...or else.

likely the consequence of ffc receiving an unofficial (or draft) reasoned letter that the usada owed to uci, armstrong and wada and that was due last tuesday.

i find the reference to return those fraud-assisted prize money particularly ominous - a nod to aso to sue if the subject refused to do so and.... that the uci may find itself in courts too if it does not go along

Interesting theory. Bums me out if we're not getting to see the reasoned letter (that marks 'victory' for me). It would explain the deployment of Shrill Shill Phil at this time, though.

 

[Deagol]

Then don't read everything there is to read, about Armstrong. Stick to the good journalism sites and outlets. It's still too early in the game to start counting how many are still duped. Concentrate on the truthful outlets and you won't have to fight to think positive.

I know about that part of it. My problem is the real people who don't know cycling who are bombarding me with BS they picked-up from the media (thus the masses) . But, again, I am doing my part to educate. I'm not sure yet if it's working or not. Also, thanks for the encouragement..

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

French Federation Cycling are praising the USADA... LINK.
Now why isn't the UCI doing same? I mean other than they've had their toes stepped on.

 

[cineteq]

French Federation Cycling are praising the USADA... LINK.

Watched Rick Horrow's video. "Advertising metrics for brand's likability reveals that 3 times more Americans dislike him than like him" Is this really true?

I surely hope so.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Watched Rick Horrow's video. "Advertising metrics for brand's likability reveals that 3 times more Americans dislike him than like him" Is this really true?

I surely hope so.

Maybe USADA can get a promotional deal for protecting the integrity of sports. jk. It's funny how the sports industry, and by extension our entire culture, puts no premium on anything other than winning. As the expression goes, they don't ask how, they ask how many.

 

[hektoren]

This only to say that I'm amazed at the sheer number of comments on various forums, facebook, from US media personalities etc that goes something like this: "All the others did it, so why pick on Lancy-boy now?"

When I grew up, there was one argument I sometimes tried to use as a last resort, and it never sat well with my parents. When I said: "Well, all the others are doing it", they invariably answered: "We know there's a lot of stupid people out there, but that doesn't mean that you have to apply for membership at the Stupid Club."
Yet, that seems to be norm for an astounding amount of people out there.
Am I way off the mark here?

 

[D-Queued]

It is worth repeating, there are more than one UCI.
-There's the UCI that does the not very exciting work of coordinating calendars, making rules, coordinating international federations and all the mechanics of the Olympic show. What little I understand I read as praise for that end of the UCI.
-There's the UCI Pat and Hein operate that runs roughshod over the boring aspects of the UCI to meet their end games. This summary is part humor part fact: http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/tour-of-hangzhou-cancelled-amid-corruption-allegations WCP got a WorldTour slot for a race that hasn't ever been run. That's impossible unless you are Hein, Pat, and Alain.

And it isn't clear which parts have better leadership or guidance.

The rule-making has been the stupidest part of the organization long before Lance started buying Sysmex machines. And, they appear to not have deviated from their absurd trajectory.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

This only to say that I'm amazed at the sheer number of comments on various forums, facebook, from US media personalities etc that goes something like this: "All the others did it, so why pick on Lancy-boy now?"

When I grew up, there was one argument I sometimes tried to use as a last resort, and it never sat well with my parents. When I said: "Well, all the others are doing it", they invariably answered: "We know there's a lot of stupid people out there, but that doesn't mean that you have to apply for membership at the Stupid Club."
Yet, that seems to be norm for an astounding amount of people out there.
Am I way off the mark here?

Bang on the mark.

Stupid people is right.

 

[DirtyWorks]

When I grew up, there was one argument I sometimes tried to use as a last resort, and it never sat well with my parents. When I said: "Well, all the others are doing it", they invariably answered: "We know there's a lot of stupid people out there, but that doesn't mean that you have to apply for membership at the Stupid Club."
Yet, that seems to be norm for an astounding amount of people out there.
Am I way off the mark here?

You are right on the mark.

Frequently people who take a more indifferent view are looking at it impersonally. Make it personal to them, and they tend to stand by the rules more.

Some, personal view or not, are perfectly okay with the cheating. In those cases, their "problem" is getting caught, not cheating.

 

[rhubroma]

Maybe USADA can get a promotional deal for protecting the integrity of sports. jk. It's funny how the sports industry, and by extension our entire culture, puts no premium on anything other than winning. As the expression goes, they don't ask how, they ask how many.

It's either glory or decline. Capito? History has taught us this implacable lesson.

 

[MarkvW]

I know about that part of it. My problem is the real people who don't know cycling who are bombarding me with BS they picked-up from the media (thus the masses) . But, again, I am doing my part to educate. I'm not sure yet if it's working or not. Also, thanks for the encouragement..

Look at it this way. People often want to be told what to believe when it comes to things that they think do not directly concern them. First, they get their opinions from the media, but later they shape their opinions based on interactions with people they trust ("opinion leaders"). You're describing a microcosm of what is happening on a grand scale. This thing has a long way to play out.

Pro cycling is insanely filthy and dealing with filthy Lance is a small first step toward cleaning up the mess. People understand that. Don't bore them with the "Lance is the most evil person in the Universe" schtick.

 

[DirtyWorks]

French Federation Cycling are praising the USADA... LINK.
Now why isn't the UCI doing same? I mean other than they've had their toes stepped on.

Officially, the answer is they are waiting for USADA's documentation. Why another much bigger IOC-blessed federation just enforced the dope-pusher ban out of the same USADA action remains an interesting contrast.

I think they are going to try to void USADA's actions. I could be wrong though. They would need something brilliant so as not to anger the IOC. I've not seen anything resembling brilliance from Pat's office.

 

[Deagol]

Look at it this way. People often want to be told what to believe when it comes to things that they think do not directly concern them. First, they get their opinions from the media, but later they shape their opinions based on interactions with people they trust ("opinion leaders"). You're describing a microcosm of what is happening on a grand scale. This thing has a long way to play out.

Pro cycling is insanely filthy and dealing with filthy Lance is a small first step toward cleaning up the mess. People understand that. Don't bore them with the "Lance is the most evil person in the Universe" schtick.

You are right and I didn't say that. What I did say is that this is the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

 

[MarkvW]

It's either glory or decline. Capito? History has taught us this implacable lesson.

But the UCI is based in Switzerland! Verstehen? Glory, not so much. Decline, not so much. But cuckoo clocks! Ja!!