USADA - Armstrong

[Big Doopie]

sca lost because there was nothing about doping in the agreement. they lost because -- as long as armstrong is recognized by aso as the winner of the tours -- he has fulfilled his part of the "bargain" (no matter how much he doped).

however, if his wins are thrown out by aso and he is no longer the winner, i assume that sca can then revisit the deal and get their money back.

it is very important to realize that these legal victories that armstrong has crowed about (sca, recent govt grand jury, etc.) ultimately are not indicators of doping. that is not what the decisions were about.

 

[thehog]

In other words, Armstrong sued because he wanted his money from SCA.

Correct. He wanted his money but he also didn't want SCA sniffing about in the public domain on the doping stories.

 

[goober]

it was reported in velo in the early 2000s that armstrong had an exclusive contract with ferrari and paid him $800,000 a year for that exclusivity. I believe the recently discovered payment is only an installment.

$800,000 a year for a hematologist to give you interval training advice.

Nope is was $8,000,000,000. Get you facts straight.

 

[Microchip]

They didn't withhold payment. They asked for clarity from the Armstrong group on the doping. They wanted to know if they had entered into an agreement which was prejudice and if their risk had been adequately calculated.. After they started asking question in regards to the details from the book Armstrong took action against SCA. That’s the fact that most people miss that it wasn’t SCA whom took action but Armstrong. The contract stated that SCA could inquire to details on each victory and the terms of the contract at anytime. As soon as this right was executed the Armstrong camp took action which ended in arbitration. Armstrong was keen that SCA didn’t sniff around too much as they wanted to shut down their poking about.

Okay, correction noted. I thought that the reason Armstrong took action was because he stopped getting his bonuses. Subsequently, there were leaks from both sides resulting in public knowledge of what went on between SCA and Armstrong.

 

[Mr.DNA]

Nope is was $8,000,000,000. Get you facts straight.

8 billion? Right.

 

[Microchip]

Definitely the money would be due to SCA if he's stripped of his titles!

 

[goober]

8 billion? Right.

Well if we are going to say $800K why not just inflate it a little more?

 

[Jeremiah]

It's interesting to me that most of Armstrong's fans have moved away from thinking 'he didn't do it' to 'he never got caught'. It's a subtle but significant difference.

We all have a friend or two who are polarizing, yet seem to have something redeeming about them, so we forgive their indiscretions. I'm very intrigued, as a student of human nature, to see seemingly good people support what appears to be one of the most destructive forces in cycling history. I know some of his 'friends' personally, and watching them rally makes me curious about loyalty, and what it really means in this case. The line between selling your soul and being loyal to a friend seems to be blurry.

Great post!

Who doesn't want to be on the winning team? That's the American psyche summarized.

You're right. Personally I confronted this dilemma in Jr. High. I'm not kidding. I was a very strong runner/athlete at that time and my teammates parents would try to talk to me about this and I gathered they were impressed.

I always thought kissing up to a 13 year old was nuts and at least kind of confusing.

Bottom line, I recognized early on that being on the winning team has very little to do with anything except uh, being on the winning team.

Jeez, that "being picked last for the team" has incredible and long lasting effects on people, which many carry on into their later careers. Frigging crazy.

 

[thehog]

Okay, correction noted. I thought that the reason Armstrong took action was because he stopped getting his bonuses. Subsequently, there were leaks from both sides resulting in public knowledge of what went on between SCA and Armstrong.

The final settlement agreement was confidential to both parties. Neither side was meant to comment on the outcome. However the Armstrong breeched this agreement by suggesting they “won” and it was proof that there was no doping and releasing this to the media. SCA were still licking their wounds and decided not to take action against the breech in this final agreement.

One other piece of information in regards to “unconstitutional” was that he Armstrong camp were successful in rejecting SCA’s first selection of 1 of 3 arbitrators before the case was heard. The process is vastly similar to the USADA upcoming trial. It’s strange that they claim the USADA process is rigged when the same process was used to their advantage during the SCA hearing.

 

[Microchip]

thehog
The final settlement agreement was confidential to both parties. Neither side was meant to comment on the outcome. However the Armstrong breeched this agreement by suggesting they “won” and it was proof that there was no doping and releasing this to the media. SCA were still licking their wounds and decided not to take action against the breech in this final agreement.

One other piece of information in regards to “unconstitutional” was that he Armstrong camp were successful in rejecting SCA’s first selection of 1 of 3 arbitrators before the case was heard. The process is vastly similar to the USADA upcoming trial. It’s strange that they claim the USADA process is rigged when the same process was used to their advantage during the SCA hearing.

What ever floats their boat at that moment is what they're gonna use.

 

[Big Doopie]

Nope is was $8,000,000,000. Get you facts straight.

i know the truth can hurt. but the figure is indeed $800,000 a year. As reported in velo magazine.

that was to pay for exclusivity. and -- of course -- cancer survivor who was raking in the big bucks with his myth was the only pro who could afford such a sum.

btw, the article reported that another "unnamed" american rider had approached armstrong as to getting in contact with ferrari. armstrong had told him that he could direct him to where ferrari lived, but that ferrari wouldn't work with him because of the exclusivity clause in his contract.

why do you think double giro winner gotti went from ferrari and success to carrying a pharmacy around with him in his parents van...and no results. armstrong had stopped ferrari from working with him.

really sorry to break this horrible news to you. but don't worry, your world won't fall to pieces when the sky turns blue.

cheers.

 

[MarkvW]

Correct. He wanted his money but he also didn't want SCA sniffing about in the public domain on the doping stories.

Anybody can sniff around in the public domain. That's why it's called the public domain.

 

[JRTinMA]

i know the truth can hurt. but the figure is indeed $800,000 a year. As reported in velo magazine.

that was to pay for exclusivity. and -- of course -- cancer survivor who was raking in the big bucks with his myth was the only pro who could afford such a sum.

cheers.

It was reported so it must be? The fact that we now know it was not exclusive does not call into question the amount as well? Maybe it was 800k or 400k or 1.2MM, don't believe everything you read.

 

[Jeremiah]

I think most people recognize that the test results weren't ignored. The test results were not abnormal because Lance was masking. Why don't you guys get a room and beat on each other there because this discussion happened many years ago and was pretty well put to bed then.

I generally agree with your posts.

This has not been put to bed and actually has just been awoken again by a respected forum member.

The scenario of Armstrong owning Hein doesn't make any sense if LA succesfully masked his elevated hCG from the UCI.

The whole episode is covered at length in Chapter 6 of From Lance to Landis.

Jacques de Ceaurriz, director of the French national laboratory for drug testing at Chatenay-Malabry strongly implied that Armstrong's elevate hCG level was picked up by the tests but not reported. That means they were ignored.

Why you go off about things like this, that contradict a recent post and what has been previously reported is beyond me.

 

[Microchip]

One of Wonderboy's key challenges is he talked to much. Bragging about "Owning" Verbruggen to multiple people, teammates, staff, Mechanics, is something that sticks with people. They don't forget it.
Much of this bragging was done far prior to his ToS positive. There was a reason he was unconcerned when he tested positive, he owned Verbruggen.

This comment has interested me from the beginning. Whatever the truth is about this, will explain that very first Tour win, I think. There's something about that first win ... can't put my finger on it ... but the comment really seemed to switch on a light over the 1999 win. We'll wait and see.

 

[Merckx index]

I’ve seen a lot of BS when it comes to explaining why LA won those 7 Tours, but this just might be the grand prizewinner:

There has been a lot of discussion and debate of late over Lance Armstrong's blood doping.

Some believe that he is superhuman; while others insist that he used performance enhancement drugs.

Is there something in the foundation of Armstrong’s makeup that allows him to perform at such a high level consistently?

So what is it that gives Lance his unique competitive edge?

Greg Herzog, a former sub four minute miler and conditioning specialist, recognized as one of the TOP 100 trainers in America in New York City and Los Angeles for over 25 years, has worked with competitive athletes, as well as celebrities; such as Naomi Campbell, Neil Sedaka, David Geffen and Harvey Keitel to name a few, as well as individuals from the ages 5 - 94, and has made studying human performance his life’s work.

This extensive experience led to the development of “AXIS CORE®”, a mathematical equation to predict and change behavior, as well as a Quantum Reaction Theory: COLOR CODING DNA®, to help better understand the foundation of the makeup of a subject in regard to performance.

Herzog believes he has broken the code of Lance Armstrong’s foundation for his performance without blood doping with his COLOR CODING DNA® painting and is donating the proceeds to cancer…

“What would a subject look like if they were represented by a color or a series of colors?”

We know what people look like in human form, on MRIs and brain scans, but what would they look like if they were represented by color?

To answer this question, Greg Herzog created a Quantum Reaction Theory using a geometric mathematical equation, where X # of points represent the foundation of the makeup of a subject and each degree of expression within the context of each point is color coded and weighted accordingly.

1. Gray Methodical and Analytical
2. Tan Serious-minded
3. Gray Thorough and Efficient
4. White Friendly and Outgoing
5. Lt Blue Inventive and Original
6. Bronze Strong sense of ethics
7. Yellow Clear thinker
8. Pink Personal freedom
9. Blue Humanitarian
10. Tan Service

For more information please go to:
http://www.vip-artfair.com

http://news.yahoo.com/behavioral-sp...herzog-sheds-perspective-lance-070555172.html

 

[Polish]

it was reported in velo in the early 2000s that armstrong had an exclusive contract with ferrari and paid him $800,000 a year for that exclusivity. I believe the recently discovered payment is only an installment.

$800,000 a year for a hematologist to give you interval training advice.

Lance pays World Class Lawyers big bucks. Lance pays big bucks for taxes. Lance makes big buck donations. Lance lives in a big buck world.

Ferrari is THE best expert in Pro Cycling Training. The best. Big Bucks. Certainly you are not suggesting Lance used 800,000 dolars worth of dope?
That is a lot of Dope Big Doopie.

 

[Jeremiah]

True. The US is in a bad place right now on many levels. I don't want to get political, but the moral and ethical middle ground doesn't exist for people with money and power. If you stand up for what is fair, you will be destroyed. It happens all the time. To somebody like Armstrong, teamwork means doing things his way. If it's not done his way, then you're not a team player. The 2009 Tour was a perfect example. There are corrupt people in power all over the US, especially in sports, who manage to convince people that if you don't go along with them, then you're negative, or a hater. I just don't understand how people don't see the reality.

Great post again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoptofKbQ04

 

[thehog]

Anybody can sniff around in the public domain. That's why it's called the public domain.

I don't like havng my domain sniffed.

 

[Polish]

Good point. SCA should have known Lance was a doper. They should have known he was going to lie, cheat, pay off the UCI etc. It is there fault, everyone already knew Armstrong and his team were dopers.

SCA certainly was aware of Cycling's Doping Issues. Common Public Knowledge by then. Lance had been dealing with SSDD for a years before SCA bet against him. Fans were writing "Doper" on the roads of France.

But SCA thought it was a good bet that NO ONE would win SIX in a Row. NO ONE had EVER done that. Sure, a few had won five total. But not Six. Sucker bet for SCA.

And if Lance DID win an unpecedented 6 - maybe SCA figured they could renege on their bet by trying a doping loophole. But they messed with the wrong guy.

Heinous actions by SCA. Heinous Insurance ccompany.
Not in good hands IMO.

 

[Jeremiah]

This is true, unfortunately. On a mountain bike forum, the people who want LA to face justice are stupidly labeled as "haters". It's like they subconciously don't want the rules to apply to him, just everybody else.

The lies he repeats so often are believed as the gospel truth. Maybe that's the problem? How much truth is there really in any gospel, anyway? Maybe people are hard-wired to be stupid?

No, most people are hard wired for survival and belief in their beliefs.

Self justification is "biologically adaptive." Confidence in one's opinions is also "biologically adaptive."

You'd think introspection would be a strength but for many it' considered a weakness.

Admitting yoiu're wrong is looked upon as weakness. What can you say? We're effed.

 

[Jeremiah]

I’ve seen a lot of BS when it comes to explaining why LA won those 7 Tours, but this just might be the grand prizewinner:



http://news.yahoo.com/behavioral-sp...herzog-sheds-perspective-lance-070555172.html

I just called him and left a message on his machine telling him we were discussing his Armstrong "theory" and ridiculing it too!

Here's the number posted at the bottom of the article.

Greg herzog
gregherzog@sbcglobal.net
203-438-1190

 

[Microchip]

Lance pays World Class Lawyers big bucks. Lance pays big bucks for taxes. Lance makes big buck donations. Lance lives in a big buck world.

Ferrari is THE best expert in Pro Cycling Training. The best. Big Bucks. Certainly you are not suggesting Lance used 800,000 dolars worth of dope?
That is a lot of Dope Big Doopie.

So, do professionals only charge at cost price? No profit?

 

[Mr.DNA]

I’ve seen a lot of BS when it comes to explaining why LA won those 7 Tours, but this just might be the grand prizewinner:



http://news.yahoo.com/behavioral-sp...herzog-sheds-perspective-lance-070555172.html

After several paragraphs of mumbo-jumbo, my BS detector went nuts at the sight of the name "Ed Coyle."

This article is a truly nauseating piece of prose.

 

[Polish]

So, do professionals only charge at cost price? No profit?

Even if Ferrari overcharged and gouged Lance for dope - $815,000 for Dope?
Ferrari extracted Lance blood and then sold it back to Lance at exorbitant prices maybe. But $850,000 for dope, even at retail, is silly Microchip.

C'mon Microchip, exclusive access to the best Brain in Pro Cycling training is going to cost big bucks. Just like the best lawyers or the best sprinkler mega systems. Big Buck World of Lance. Did I mention Lance makes Big Buck Donations and pays Big Buck US Taxes?