USADA - Armstrong

[thehog]

This is different. If he says "I don't recall" about something ten other witnesses recall VERY well, then he has a mega-problem proving that the ten others are wrong in what they say. And some of those "I don't recall's" of the past may come back to haunt him if he now tries to say that he really does recall . . .

I like the new MarkW. Don't bring the old one back.

You're probably right in addition to being the defendentt rather on the prosecution this time will help him remember.

Plus they'll bring up this stuff:

According to Lance Armstrong, “My goal in agreeing to participate in this program is to reduce speculation and debate about drug testing issues that might divert attention away from what my cycling comeback is all about – our global cancer campaign. I am riding in 2009 to help end the stigma of cancer, build a grassroots movement about worldwide cancer collaboration, and make cancer a worldwide priority.”

According to Dr. Don Catlin, “We have developed an extensive monitoring program. It accomplishes my goals:

1. To have high frequency testing to maximize the amount of data collected and minimize possibilities the athlete might have to thwart the system,

2. To store frozen samples for two to eight years to give ADSI the ability to perform new or additional tests, and*

3. To be independent and offer program transparency to the public and international anti-doping authorities."

 

[Race Radio]

And lest we forget, Armstrong is friends with former U.S. presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush - one Democratic the other Republican - and has starstruck legislators like U.S. Representative Jack Kingman (R-GA) willing to go to the mat for him. http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6207114

In the next few months we'll find out just how much influence he has.

Bush is not his friend. The exact word Bush used to describe him is "A$$hole"

 

[TechnicalDescent]

Bush is not his friend. The exact word Bush used to describe him is "A$$hole"

You have sources in the Bush administration? Wow.

You should write a book like Bob Woodward.

 

[BotanyBay]

If Armstrong manages to bring down USADA there will be nothing left of anti-doping in America.Another addition to his legacy.

If Armstrong tries to attack the legal authority of USADA, the DOJ would (ironically) need to insert itself and assist USADA (or risk killing the entirety of all US anti-doping efforts in ALL IOC-related sports). Even when they think they're out, they get pulled back in!

So Mark Fabiani will have been either a killer investment or a somewhat wasted one.

 

[Maxiton]

Bush is not his friend. The exact word Bush used to describe him is "A$$hole"

Gotta admit, coming from Bush that's a huge point in Armstrong's favor . . . .

 

[frenchfry]

He'd have to get an injunction to delay USADA but to do so need fairly strong evidence to suggest that the testimony is from the Grand Jury. USADA could easily show that the evidence is from their own interviews.* If Armstrong could pull off an injunction I’d be mighty impressed. But imagine if he did? Where would that leave the anti-doping process? USADA was a Clinton/government initiative. It could leave the US in a situation being barred from certain sports or the IOC. If WADA were tough enough they may act. Athletes have gone the Federal route before all have lost.
*
Armstrong has one problem. He’s actually worse off when Floyd had his hearing. Landis was arguing science and mishandling of his sample – that was complex and the general public were lost in the detail. Armstrong has 10 former colleagues who have provided written testimony that he doped. That’s a lot more compelling than arguing science of a dope test – when the general public is concerned. And a lot more compelling in civil suits or appealing to a high court.
*
USADA would have sort legal advice on this before proceeding. I still feel you can't mount a challenge until the process has played out. I also note in all of USADAs statements they reference that they're following Federal law.

If only Lance could lure Arnie Baker onto his side, he could whip up a nifty powerpoint presentation that would put USADA in big trouble. Fabiani and Luskin are clowns compared to Arnie.

 

[andy1234]

Fine, but I also don't think that it was cool to joke about Armstrong acquiring Lemond's stock as some way to offer technical advice. That was also vile. Polish offers absolutely nothing to this forum except for interference and distraction, and personally, I think the humor factor of his posts has worn off.

Taking Ms Parchinski to dinner was also vile.

Don't PM me again.

I'm not sure what's worse, the statement you made to. Polish, or gloating that you got away with it.

I repeat, do not PM me again.

 

[sniper]

interesting interview (albeit in German) with German doping hunter Sörgel:

http://www.welt.de/newsticker/dpa_n...le107276498/Man-erwischt-nur-die-Kleinen.html

Amongst other things, he refuses to go into detail but claims there is an EPO doping method which is currently used by the richest crop of pro-cyclists. Is he referring to micro-dosing with close blood-passport monitoring?

QS: Kann man heutzutage noch mit Epo dopen, ohne erwischt zu werden?

ANSWER: Sörgel:«Es gibt eine absolut sichere und hoch effektive Epo-Dopingmethode. (...) Sie ist ungemein teuer, das können sich nur sehr reiche Sportler leisten. Dazu passt ja die Meldung, dass Armstrong 465 000 Euro an den italienische Arzt Michele Ferrari - "Mister Epo I" - überwiesen haben soll. Es ist eben alles eine Frage des Geldes.»

"QS: Is it still possible at this day to dope with EPO without getting caught?

Sörgel: "There is a 100% secure and highly effective EPO-dopingmethod. It is an extremely expensive method, though, which only the richest athletes can afford. That bodes well with the 465.000 Euro Armstrong paid Michele Ferrari - Mister EPO. It's all a question of money."

 

[Stingray34]

You have sources in the Bush administration? Wow.

You should write a book like Bob Woodward.

I'm still waiting for your forthcoming The A to Z of BPC.

 

[Race Radio]

I think WADA is going to want to know why questionable values are being ignored by the UCI. Then there is the Tour of Switzerland test that got buried and the arranged meeting with the Swiss lab. The there is the Italian investigation of Ferrari that will probably show more riders who it turned out had passport values that probably deserved a second look.

Things could get very uncomfortable for the UCI.

It hopefully will, but there are challenges

WADA does not over site on the UCI ignoring Armstrong Hcg levels, Cortisone use, or EPO positives as they happened before WADA had input.

I do expect that the events surrounding his Hcg levels will be public soon but the real damage hopefully will come from experts reviewing blood values and the UCI trying to explain why nothing was done.

Did the UCI share all of it's Biopassport test results with WADA? They refused to share them in the past.

It is good news that Ashenden is no longer with the UCI. He and Gripper could be interesting witnesses

 

[Race Radio]

You have sources in the Bush administration? Wow.

You should write a book like Bob Woodward.

My source was the person he said it to, not Bush.

You should write a book on using IP address proxies

 

[Race Radio]

interesting interview (albeit in German) with German doping hunter Sörgel:

http://www.welt.de/newsticker/dpa_n...le107276498/Man-erwischt-nur-die-Kleinen.html

Amongst other things, he refuses to go into detail but claims there is an EPO doping method which is currently used by the richest crop of pro-cyclists. Is he referring to micro-dosing with close blood-passport monitoring?



"QS: Is it still possible at this day to dope with EPO without getting caught?

Sörgel: "There is a 100% secure and highly effective EPO-dopingmethod. It is an extremely expensive method, though, which only the richest athletes can afford. That bodes well with the 465.000 Euro Armstrong paid Michele Ferrari - Mister EPO. It's all a question of money."

I am not sure exactly what he is referring to but I have heard there is a new Protese like product that scrubs the synthetic EPO from a sample and leaves the liver produced. USADA is aware of it and I expect some version of this method to be part of their case

 

[Maxiton]

Since the UCI is considered to be complicit in the long standing cover up; that wouldn't happen without a senior management resignation in the UCI. Considering their policy of busting no-name riders on the bio-passport to show they have a drug policing effort; maybe they can find a Patsy to lay the blame on?

Yeah, Patsy McQuaid. Patsy McQuaid and also, if we're lucky, Heiny Verbruggen.

 

[sniper]

I am not sure exactly what he is referring to but I have heard there is a new Protese like product that scrubs the synthetic EPO from a sample and leaves the liver produced. USADA is aware of it and I expect some version of this method to be part of their case

Interesting.
This method I assume is what Sörgel referred to.
That would explain why he explicitly says he doesn't want to go into detail, as it would go beyond the complexity scope of the interview.

 

[seatpost]

Gotta admit, coming from Bush that's a huge point in Armstrong's favor . . . .

I think the comment actually redeems Dubya. Sounds like he kind of gets it, for a change.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

If by "pressure" you mean Tin-Foil Borat Conspiracies, I will agree with you - the USADA is immune. But that is like saying they are immune to Unicorns.

But the USADA is NOT immune to prosecution if they break/broke any laws.

Who is?...well except for Lance lol. "Oh I've got friends in low (high) places..." Good thing the USADA is filled with honest, ethical people who recognize great sporting fraud and are willing to do something about it. Good people. Honest people. Taking on Lance and the lies he told all those children. Steely focus on lying. Grrrr!!!

 

[BotanyBay]

Don't PM me again.

I'm not sure what's worse, the statement you made to. Polish, or gloating that you got away with it.

I repeat, do not PM me again.

Being that the entity that is Polish is really just a character (always maintaining his insane sock puppet persona), and really just exists to distract and run interference to the flow of discussions, I don't see what the big tizzy is, really.
I also wish cancer upon Barney the dinosaur, but it will never happen, because Barney is made of fabric. Polish does not participate as a human being. He's like a sidekick robot programmed to tell jokes whenever the antagonist needs a slight respite. I also wished cancer upon "tweekie", Buck Rogers's comedic robot sidekick, as Gil Gerard didn't have the charisma to carry the show on his own. Even as a sixth grader, I felt this way. We're those the signs of a future cat torturer? I don't know.

I don't wish cancer upon the guy that writes as Polish. I'm not even sure the guy is a fanboy (whoever it is). Probably not. I just happened to think your overreaction was humorous in and of itself. Don't worry pal, next time I insult a sock puppet, I'll be sure to avoid the likes of you.

http://images.google.com/search?num...sT8_2AvSA6QGboaHZBQ#biv=i|2;d|eXP0yTLoLEuSGM:

 

[Jeremiah]

Gotta admit, coming from Bush that's a huge point in Armstrong's favor . . . .

Bush is not his friend. The exact word Bush used to describe him is "A$$hole"

Bush thinks this of Armstrong because of the PED fraud or because Armstrong tried to play politics with him with cancer funding?

I'm correct in saying Armstrong is not a conservative and may even lean Democratic?

 

[BotanyBay]

Bush thinks this of Armstrong because of the PED fraud or because Armstrong tried to play politics with him with cancer funding?

I'm correct in saying Armstrong is not a conservative and may even lean Democratic?

He leans narccisstic. Whatever party is best for his particular whim that day is the party he backs.

 

[BotanyBay]

I am not sure exactly what he is referring to but I have heard there is a new Protese like product that scrubs the synthetic EPO from a sample and leaves the liver produced. USADA is aware of it and I expect some version of this method to be part of their case

I know they have samples that have literally no EPO within them at all (naturally occurring or not). And of course, Armstrong will argue: "See, no EPO, innocent!"

 

[thehog]

I know they have samples that have literally no EPO within them at all (naturally occurring or not). And of course, Armstrong will argue: "See, no EPO, innocent!"

The "too clean" samples from 2002 might be interesting.

 

[Merckx index]

I do expect that the events surrounding his Hcg levels will be public soon but the real damage hopefully will come from experts reviewing blood values and the UCI trying to explain why nothing was done.

There are two possibilities: a) UCI covered up a suspicious passport; b) USADA is trying to make a case out of a suspicious passport that was already vetted by the expert panel. I think 2) is much more likely.

Roughly, there are three levels of passports: 1) a normal one that falls within the acceptable parameters; 2) a suspicious one that trips the algorithms; on a graph, this is observed as a plot that extends above or below the baseline plots; 3) a suspicious plot that is examined by experts in more detail, and concluded to indicate doping.

Most likely, LA’s blood values fell in the 2) range. Either UCI ignored it (a), or they passed them on to the expert panel, which concluded that they were not sanctionable (b). My understanding is that most suspicious passports are in fact rejected as evidence of doping by the panel, in an efforty to minimize false positives. Of course, experts may disagree, and USADA may have a panel of its own experts that has concluded LA’s values are sanctionable. This would be really interesting, but in that case the values would still most likely be supporting evidence, not standalone evidence of doping.

I am not sure exactly what he is referring to but I have heard there is a new Protese like product that scrubs the synthetic EPO from a sample and leaves the liver produced. USADA is aware of it and I expect some version of this method to be part of their case

It wouldn’t be a protease, as the amino acid sequence of synthetic and natural are the same. It might be a sialidase, which selectively degrades the carbohydrate residues on synthetic, but I doubt very much that there is an enzyme that is selective for one and not the other. It could be an enzyme directed to one of the newer synthetic EPOs, though, that removes the residues specific to it.

I know they have samples that have literally no EPO within them at all (naturally occurring or not). And of course, Armstrong will argue: "See, no EPO, innocent!"

Nothing suspicious about that. Many urine samples show no detectable levels of natural EPO.

 

[BotanyBay]

Amongst other things, he refuses to go into detail but claims there is an EPO doping method which is currently used by the richest crop of pro-cyclists. Is he referring to micro-dosing with close blood-passport monitoring?

No, that stuff was very "10 years ago". Back then they could test for abnormal amounts of EPO, but could not distinguish the synthetic from the real. Now they can distinguish it. So the savviest dopers (remember, aiming not for "innocence", but rather the "lack of technical guilt") just started scrubbing the synthetic EPO from their samples, sometimes eliminating all of it. Not guilty of a positive doping offense, but not fitting the definition of a "positive" sample. And with the rules currently written as they are, dirty rotten cheaters have been routinely allowed to continue on

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Armstrong is neither: LIBERTARIAN

Bush thinks this of Armstrong because of the PED fraud or because Armstrong tried to play politics with him with cancer funding?

I'm correct in saying Armstrong is not a conservative and may even lean Democratic?

That's why smart folks must drop out: Sooner or later they'd find out Big*Gov not only taxes you to near death, but on top of that; All those losers who you've helped sustain, are only alive in order to make your successful life miserable, once they've gotten all your teardrops, sweat, and blood. Thanks God we still have Obbie to fix the mess left up!

 

[Jeremiah]

He leans narccisstic. Whatever party is best for his particular whim that day is the party he backs.

So he fits in great because whether they're left wing or right wing it's just a shtick.

If the partisans really believed in any of this stuff they'd be fighting on a regular basis.

One thing you have to say about GWB, he pushed his agenda through or tried to.