USADA - Armstrong

[Microchip]

Based on the ridiculous letter he had his lawyers write, I'd say he knows he's going to lose, and is trying to feed the public a story about unfair treatment and process, thus hopefully getting relatively acquitted in the court of public opinion. Based on some conversations I've had, it seems to be working so far. These people echo his spin on stuff. But I don't believe it will last.

In the end, the fans don't hold the power to take away his titles or have the power to sway USADA. Maybe it's for his personal comfort.

 

[DominicDecoco]

 

[DominicDecoco]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usa-cycling-usada-headquarters-evacuated-in-face-of-wildfires

Looks like Lance has gone to the highest authority and got his wish. Its over. The evidence is gone. Doesn't exist.

 

[TechnicalDescent]

lol. Nice work.

 

[henryg]

I think this is correct. At most, they might throw out the blood values, based on the fact that UCI did not find them sanctionable.

I think WADA is going to want to know why questionable values are being ignored by the UCI. Then there is the Tour of Switzerland test that got buried and the arranged meeting with the Swiss lab. The there is the Italian investigation of Ferrari that will probably show more riders who it turned out had passport values that probably deserved a second look.

Things could get very uncomfortable for the UCI.

 

[Polish]

USADA is immune to the pressure. It has a duty to provide the athlete a fair hearing. When charges are preferred, the train leaves the station, and only some external force is going to change that.

Lance is must attack USADA in an overt way, otherwise the antidoping process keeps chugging along.

If by "pressure" you mean Tin-Foil Borat Conspiracies, I will agree with you - the USADA is immune. But that is like saying they are immune to Unicorns.

But the USADA is NOT immune to prosecution if they break/broke any laws.

 

[UlleGigo]

There something to said for someone willing to troll for 3 years. I don't know if its pathetic or worthy of respect at this point.

 

[thehog]

I think WADA is going to want to know why questionable values are being ignored by the UCI. Then there is the Tour of Switzerland test that got buried and the arranged meeting with the Swiss lab. The there is the Italian investigation of Ferrari that will probably show more riders who it turned out had passport values that probably deserved a second look.

Things could get very uncomfortable for the UCI.

I don't think the UCI will notice. They're too busy announcing new world tour races in the backwaters of China.

 

[BotanyBay]

The current situation would suggest otherwise. He has already alleged through his response to USADA that they breached Federal law.

Yet he has filed to present evidence as to how they have done so, considering they're using a set of rules that he effectively helped write (via his manservant bill).

 

[ChewbaccaD]

There something to said for someone willing to troll for 3 years. I don't know if its pathetic or worthy of respect at this point.

In this case, the only option is the ignore feature. He is protected because the mods claim he is only providing a counter opinion. Don't respond or worry about it. If you ignore him, you don't have to read his pathetic ramblings.

 

[MarkvW]

Yet he has filed to present evidence as to how they have done so, considering they're using a set of rules that he effectively helped write (via his manservant bill).

It's premature for that, I think, but I still cannot imagine Lance presenting a factual defense to the charges. It would mean hours denying one very specific fact, after another, under oath.

Maybe Lance has the full *** gene, though.

 

[thehog]

It's premature for that, I think, but I still cannot imagine Lance presenting a factual defense to the charges. It would mean hours denying one very specific fact, after another, under oath.

Maybe Lance has the full *** gene, though.

You need to watch the "I do not recall" rap from the SCA tapes. A good 8 hours of not recalling much.

 

[Oldman]

I think WADA is going to want to know why questionable values are being ignored by the UCI. Then there is the Tour of Switzerland test that got buried and the arranged meeting with the Swiss lab. The there is the Italian investigation of Ferrari that will probably show more riders who it turned out had passport values that probably deserved a second look.

Things could get very uncomfortable for the UCI.

Heres hoping it does because as much as LA may have abused the system; he is only a franchise operator within that system. He/his handlers probably didn't have to think that hard to come up with a way to achieve an edge. Heinz probably has a form you fill out and drop in a box with a donation.

 

[TubularBills]

Corruption has existed at all levels, throughout history, whenever big money has been involved. Modern sport began in late XIX century England as a gentleman's activity, where notions of fair play and honorability were, as hypocritical as it may have been, viewed as natural aspects of identity to the social class for whom such recreation was intended. Then, with increased workers' wages, sport soon became transformed into a recreational activity to which the middle and lower classes could have access. It became more democratic and, as a result, gained in popularity; and here the first inkling that there could be big money in sport. Sponsorship, professionalism, the British inspired first Olympics soon followed thereafter. So, too, did "looking to get an edge."

Yet there has remained (still today as propaganda) in the ethos of sport that original conception of "gentlemanliness," "fair-play" and "honorability," which in many ways must be disseminated to keep up the image everybody wants to see, however illusory. With the wars both hot and cold between nations in the 20th century, sport even became overt state propaganda at the international and Olympic spectacles, to demonstrate the predominance of a particular ideology, race or "way of life": thus Nazi-Fascism over civilization, democracy over socialist dictatorship (and vice versa) communism over capitalism (and vice versa), etc. Things remained somewhat "naïf" in the doping world, apart from the amphetamines, until the 68 Olympics, which transformed sport through more scientific doping methods by the introduction of blood doping and anabolic steroids. Next, inevitably, came anti-doping, which is always chasing the science of doping to keep up with new regulatory tests to detect drugs which have already been in circulation and so used with impunity.

Difficult indeed how people don't see the reality in sport, given this background, which demonstrates that as an opium of the mass it has ever been as Martial described it: panem et circensis. The problem today is we lived in a doped society. Our economic model is doped. Our consumer model is doped. Finance is doped. Happiness and depression are doped. Given this spectrum of being condemned to growth, efficiency, to win ever more, to always surpass the last record, sales, buy a bigger house, new car (even though last years is fine), it is easy to discern what’s wrong with the world and why everything keeps getting worse. The human ambition to make more money.

Bravo and well said. Excellent synopsis of contemporary sport within a historical context.

 

[red_flanders]

I'll be clear again. The rule here which will be primarily enforced is going to be this one:

• No insulting other members. This includes counter-insults ("he started it").


Calling someone a troll or pathetic is an insult.

It's not my primary concern if you think someone is a troll. The definition is variable and not as simple as being civil. I recognize that trolling is a difficult issue and will work with everyone here over time to address it. Be patient and ignore whatever you consider problematic. Give me the benefit of the doubt and give it some time. For the time being, I am confident if we can all adhere to the rule above, most of the issues will stop. I recognize that within the rules framework someone can play games and troll and escape sanction. Not the end of the world.

If you have been warned already, and some have, expect sanctions and bans, and don't expect further explanation in PM.

 

[MarkvW]

You need to watch the "I do not recall" rap from the SCA tapes. A good 8 hours of not recalling much.

This is different. If he says "I don't recall" about something ten other witnesses recall VERY well, then he has a mega-problem proving that the ten others are wrong in what they say. And some of those "I don't recall's" of the past may come back to haunt him if he now tries to say that he really does recall . . .

 

[Normandy]

Damn - Someone beat me to it!!!

 

[Microchip]

There are two things in particular which make me think USADA is going to get through with alot of what they set out to do.

One, is that it's now many years since Lance started owning the UCI - well, Verbruggen anyway. About fourteen years? That's enough time for those who were in power during his reign, to have less power than they had before. People move around in positions of administration. People resign, people die. Lance seems to think every year is 1999. He seems to me to operate as if 1999 just goes on and on. Perhaps he's facing the cruel reality that things aren't as they were in his heyday.

Second, if the Internet translation tools properly rendered the very recent articles that quoted LeMond, I would think it's significant that LeMond was quoted as saying he was "toxic" and "poison". You can only come out and say something like that when you're pretty sure there aren't going to be the repercussions there were years ago when he suggested it may be a "fraud".

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The current situation would suggest otherwise. He has already alleged through his response to USADA that they breached Federal law.

It may even be convincing enough to powerful friends of his to launch an investigation into whether Grand Jury statutes have been broken.

If his lobbying was able to shut down the Grand Jury, you would have to think the same links, if they exist, could easily launch an investigation into the legality of USADA's actions.

Yet his crack legal team made the charge with no proof or detail about how they did so other than to say they used GJ testimony to make their case, which they didn't. The lack of specificity is glaring, and screams of a legal team that is grasping at the only straws available to them: Smear and scream and stomp your little feet like a child. It does a couple of things, it brings attention to your unsubstantiated statements and it fools people who don't know the difference between a conclusory statement and substantiated claims. Most Armstrong fans share intellectual and educational similarities with their fraud of a hero, so it's easy to get them to believe anything.

 

[Polish]

This is different. If he says "I don't recall" about something ten other witnesses recall VERY well, then he has a mega-problem proving that the ten others are wrong in what they say. And some of those "I don't recall's" of the past may come back to haunt him if he now tries to say that he really does recall . . .

Will there be anything that 10 people saw? Doubt it. One person saw this, another person saw something else. Maybe 3 people saw something together?
SSDD this, SSDD that. Floyd saw this. Tyler something else. Who knows what Frankie and JV saw. Did Tyler/JV/Frankie/CVV see one same thing? Will their stories match up exactly? It was a long time ago....

Was that stage 13 or stage 17. Wait a second, what year are we talking about. Was that a bus or a room? Was it hookers then blow or vice versa?
Long time ago.....

 

[Pazuzu]

Ya, I think this is how he is going to play it.

I don't see him backing off unless the charges get reduced at Review (ie they reject some points on SOL) - but I have read all the related articles and believe that is unlikely.

As USADA have him well pinned in, the only real route to get off is through attempting this through every court or through political pressure - the latter being the better of those options.

And lest we forget, Armstrong is friends with former U.S. presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush - one Democratic the other Republican - and has starstruck legislators like U.S. Representative Jack Kingman (R-GA) willing to go to the mat for him. http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6207114

In the next few months we'll find out just how much influence he has.

 

[Jeremiah]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usa-cycling-usada-headquarters-evacuated-in-face-of-wildfires

Looks like Lance has gone to the highest authority and got his wish. Its over. The evidence is gone. Doesn't exist.

Is Ferrari even allowed in the US?

 

[mewmewmew13]

And lest we forget, Armstrong is friends with former U.S. presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush - one Democratic the other Republican - and has starstruck legislators like U.S. Representative Jack Kingman (R-GA) willing to go to the mat for him. http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6207114

In the next few months we'll find out just how much influence he has.

I guess. Maybe.
He is 'friends' with everyone so he says....

 

[simo1733]

I guess. Maybe.
He is 'friends' with everyone so he says....

If Armstrong manages to bring down USADA there will be nothing left of anti-doping in America.Another addition to his legacy.

 

[Random Direction]

From the most recent map I could find (https://maps.google.com/?q=http://e...re-20120627aa.kml&msa=0&t=p&output=embed&z=12), the Colorado Springs fire is only 3.5 km (just over 2 miles) from the USADA, USA Cycling and USA Triathlon Headquarters.

Hopefully they get this stopped.

Nonetheless, at this time an important question is what back up / redundancy would USADA have for the evidence and procedural documents.