USADA - Armstrong

[mikkemus23]

I'd love to see Lance atack Gh's credibility, but most likely he will argue that they were beeing threatened by usada or whatever...

 

[Antianti]

I like the deal and admire the riders (even if it is pay-to-play), but the leak of the story is so obviously a political move that it feels somewhat disheartening. Somebody wants to make a career and to do that they drag cycling and the riders through yet another round of "what's in your past". It's fine to go for Armstrong, if anyone deserves it it's him. But leaking it during the tour? Ugh.

 

[HL2037]

Vaughters says that no-one from Slipstream Sports has been given a 6 month ban

http://twitter.com/#!/Vaughters

'Regarding the Dutch media report: No 6mos suspensions have been given to any member of Slipstream Sports. Today or at any future date.'

I guess either he means no suspensions have been given yet - or else the leak comes from camp a-hole as a last desperate attempt to smear the witnesses. They know that the story will get the most attention when it is breaking, so they break it themselves to make sure that the part about the witnesses having selfish reasons is included.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I have to wonder at the mindset of Bottle, GH, CVV and DZ that they are able to ride at the highest level after talking to USADA about Armstrong!

Why?

If the reports are true, you think they should be ashamed of opening their mouths? I'd say the opposite.

 

[Cloxxki]

So no races Sept-March I suppose?

My questions regarding JV keep growing more itchy.

 

[webvan]

Yes he's walking a thin line here, they did the right thing though so that's ok. A 6 month suspension seems odd though, Dopestrong's friends at the UCI are certainly going to appeal that to stick it to them.

 

[UlleGigo]

Just an opinion. Whether anybody agrees with it or not. The chances that Armstrong doped in 2009 and 2010 are highly likely when You take his past into consideration.

I would say its an absolute certainty. I would say he was still doping for his little Iron Man things he was doing too.

 

[UlleGigo]

So no races Sept-March I suppose?

My questions regarding JV keep growing more itchy.

This.

What is the story with JV? Is it just thats he's ex-US Postal?

I can't say the guy, or his team, are as squeeky clean as he would have us believe.

 

[Machu Picchu]

This.

What is the story with JV? Is it just thats he's ex-US Postal?

I can't say the guy, or his team, are as squeeky clean as he would have us believe.

Well let’s be honest, JV is no crusader, his team is portrayed as clean & anti-doping in order to secure sponsorship and after just getting Sharp onboard he’s got to balance this story and the truth delicately.

 

[gerundium]

Wow of all sources it's telegraaf who gets the scoop -.- sadly that paper about has the credibility of news of the world as far as i am concerned. They probably got it right this time, but don't be surprised if there are inaccuracies in this scoop one way or another.

It's going to be hella good to see LA squirm and scream against this witness lineup though.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Well let’s be honest, JV is no crusader, his team is portrayed as clean & anti-doping in order to secure sponsorship and after just getting Sharp onboard he’s got to balance this story and the truth delicately.

The story as reported by the Dutch is entirely consistent with Vaughters repeatedly expressed public position. ie That their intent is to provide an anti-doping environment for riders now, but they understand that some riders will have a dubious past. And that their riders, while they aren't encouraged to go announce their past to the press are required to cooperate with any questions from anti-doping authorities.

You don't have to agree with that policy, but if the report is accurate it enhances his credibility when he says that it is their policy.

 

[frenchfry]

At first I was thinking that this isn't really news, but then when I heard the story on the France Info radio news a few minutes ago I realised that for those who don't follow the story closely this is a major blow to Armstrong's image. The fact that numerous ex-teammates have testified against him will not be easy to counter and will likely make his over-the-top rhetoric sound hysteric.

 

[UlleGigo]

A news break here in Australia just reported that Hincapie has admitted to using drugs during the Tour with LA.

I think it may be a bit premature. It's true obviously but I think my country's media is getting a little carried away.

 

[B_Ugli]

Like others todays news comes as no great surprise.

What bothers me more is that previously the statement "I have never tested positive" meant very little but for all these guys to come out suggests this statement of innocence now means jack (some might argue it has meant jack for some time).

The next conclusion (and one reinforced by the fact that LA's teamates only tested positive when moving to another team) is that they were being afforded protection while at USPS/LA/Bruyneel.

With what we know about the cosey chats had with the UCI, how can the UCI be sanctioned? Can a governing body ever be stripped of its reponsibilities and those passed to another organisation? From what I can see they will walk away from this with no more than a slap on the wrists.

 

[thehog]

A news break here in Australia just reported that Hincapie has admitted to using drugs during the Tour with LA.

I think it may be a bit premature. It's true obviously but I think my country's media is getting a little carried away.

My take is Armstrong is the leak on the names........


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Ochowicz-respond-to-USADA-witness-claims.aspx

Hincapie was approached by reporters before the start and said that he had nothing to say about the allegations. “I am just disappointed that this has been brought up again. I feel like I have always tried to do the right thing for the sport,” he said, in response to questions. “Right now I am here to do my job and I am just going to try to focus on that. BMC has nothing to do with this. Cadel obviously is focussed on winning the Tour and I am here to try to help him do that. I am going to continue to do that and to try not to let anything get in my mind beside that.”

As has been the case in the past, he has not responded directly about claims that he has spoken to investigators. Asked if he had spoken to Armstrong, he said that it has been some time since they were in contact.

“I haven’t in a while. I feel bad that he is going through all this,” he said. “Lance has done so many things for the sport. His accomplishments are incredible, what he has achieved in the sport of cycling, the attention he has brought to the sport of cycling, what he has done for the cancer society is honourable.”

 

[doperhopper]

Don't think they'll give the Tour victories to somebody else. Wouldn't make any sense due to it being years back and the majority of the bunch being doped anyway.
I actually looked through the list of people behind Armstrong in his winning years for the first "never caught doping" guy. Some of the years it was number seven or eight who was first clean, i.e. never been caught...

They should erase #1 for those years and leave it blank.

Well, seriously, only #1?

As it was pointed out many times (also here), it would be more appropriate to put an asterisk to the whole era - then draw a thick line, pull out Nuremberg-style process, dedopification... yes, that's too much of a hope, many "camp kapo's", "Dr. Mengele's" and "SS members" are still deep in the bussiness.

 

[Machu Picchu]

The story as reported by the Dutch is entirely consistent with Vaughters repeatedly expressed public position. ie That their intent is to provide an anti-doping environment for riders now, but they understand that some riders will have a dubious past. And that their riders, while they aren't encouraged to go announce their past to the press are required to cooperate with any questions from anti-doping authorities.

You don't have to agree with that policy, but if the report is accurate it enhances his credibility when he says that it is their policy.

I know, I read that too, like I said he's no crusader and he’ll have to balance the story and the truth delicately:

"Regarding the Dutch media report: no 6mos (sic) suspensions have been given to any member of Slipstream Sports. Today or at any future date."

 

[Kender]

Or he just got a year older and if you watched theh 2010 tour, he was involved in a few accidents and bad luck flats.

So wait, more witnesses are from people that made deals with USADA?

It's going to be interesting when this whole case falls apart and this thread disappears just like the failed federal investigation.

it didn't fail. it paved the way for the USADA to press charges.

 

[UlleGigo]

My take is Armstrong is the leak on the names........


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Ochowicz-respond-to-USADA-witness-claims.aspx

To what end?

From my view that would be solely so the riders get pestered and he can potentially get to them before November. But thats a long shot. If one of them confirms their testimony to the media then Armstrong is sunk.

I don't think the names need to leaked tbf. Its fairly common knowledge to all of us who the riders are so I imagine Lance will have zero surprises when the names of those who have talked are officially made known to him when the time comes.

 

[ManInFull]

I am a fan of Vaughters stance in the sport, but Vaughters, and the riders named, should not have been allowed to participate in the tour.*
*If this report is accurate*

Vaughters has immediately come out and denied it:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-no-slipstream-sports-usada-suspensions

Anyway, this makes the Tour much more interesting now!

 

[rgmerk]

yes, that's too much of a hope, many "camp kapo's", "Dr. Mengele's" and "SS members" are still deep in the bussiness.

Could I politely request that people find a different analogy to make this point?

We're talking about people who are accused to cheating to win bike races, which in this case is not even a criminal offence. Comparisons to people who conspired to commit genocide are ridiculous and offensive on many levels.

 

[hrotha]

To what end?

From my view that would be solely so the riders get pestered and he can potentially get to them before November. But thats a long shot. If one of them confirms their testimony to the media then Armstrong is sunk.

I don't think the names need to leaked tbf. Its fairly common knowledge to all of us who the riders are so I imagine Lance will have zero surprises when the names of those who have talked are officially made known to him when the time comes.

"All of us", meaning "Clinic posters", is not the "12 guys" some claimed, but it's not "the majority of casual fans" either. Most people know very little about this stuff.

For us, these names being leaked just confirms the theories we had (and here my use of "theory" is closer to the scientific sense than to the "crapshot hypothesis" one). For most people out there, this is big news.

 

[HL2037]

My take is Armstrong is the leak on the names........


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Ochowicz-respond-to-USADA-witness-claims.aspx

Hincapie was approached by reporters before the start and said that he had nothing to say about the allegations. “I am just disappointed that this has been brought up again. I feel like I have always tried to do the right thing for the sport,” he said, in response to questions. “Right now I am here to do my job and I am just going to try to focus on that. BMC has nothing to do with this. Cadel obviously is focussed on winning the Tour and I am here to try to help him do that. I am going to continue to do that and to try not to let anything get in my mind beside that.”

As has been the case in the past, he has not responded directly about claims that he has spoken to investigators. Asked if he had spoken to Armstrong, he said that it has been some time since they were in contact.

“I haven’t in a while. I feel bad that he is going through all this,” he said. “Lance has done so many things for the sport. His accomplishments are incredible, what he has achieved in the sport of cycling, the attention he has brought to the sport of cycling, what he has done for the cancer society is honourable.”

Agreed - it is not fortunate that this hits the mainstream media the day after Alex Rasmussen was fired from Garmin-Sharp because of his ban. It could be perceived as hypocrisy if other riders/staff were banned and not fired. Even if the difference is that Alex's offense is recent.

Also if it turns out later that one or more of these five did not actually testify, camp LA can try to spin that to their advance. Since after todays leak everybody will be expecting all five to witness against LA. Then the news will be "GH did not testify against LA" in stead of "LL, DZ, CV and JV did testify against LA".

 

[Bicycle tramp]

If the information is authentic, it could have been leaked by -

* USADA - very unlikely - it would damage their cause and they seem to have run a fairly disciplined ship to date.
* The LA camp. This is much more likely, presuming that the evidence has been passed over. But would the LA camp be advised of any sentencing deals?
* Someone within the UCI, assuming that USADA has kept them somewhat informed.

But I wonder if someone's flying a kite? Where are the other witnesses - only the obvious ones are named. JV has denied some of the sentencing deals. It's possible that he may not know yet, but his denial seems pretty categorical.

 

[UlleGigo]

Enlighten me.

I've read a fair bit about it and lurked alot in the clinic over the years but I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of a deeper theory. I'm assuming this goes beyond the stuff that is public knowledge?

Edit: Wrong quote. Hrotha. I was addressing you.

FWIW I have followed cycling since '94 and have read alot about LA hence my interest that there may be something that I'm not seeing in all of this beyond the obvious UCI coverup type theories.