USADA - Armstrong

[BroDeal]

Could one of the other people testifying against him be a teammate from 2009? Another six months after winning la vuelta?

The way I see it is the Slipstream guys (except the Z-Man) left more than eight years ago. None of them get suspended. Zabriskie is almost at the eight year SOL window, so he also does not get suspended. Hincapie and Leipheimer are the ones who get six months. Maybe George skates totally free as well if he was clean starting with High Road. The newspaper or its source lumps all riders together and reports that everyone is getting the same suspension.

An interesting thing is what happens to Contador. Hincapie and Leipheimer could have said something about him. Bruyneel has the information to implicate Contador. If Bruyneel and Armstrong go for a scorched earth policy then they can do a lot of damage.

 

[red_flanders]

Since when are riders testimonies enough to prove that someone is guilty of doping? Wouldn't they need actual proof that he did? What if the samples they put forward are dubious?

I'm just saying... we've yet to see the full story. Armstrong might very well set up here by ex-teammates holding a grudge and the USADA...

At this point everyone in cycling appears to have a grudge against Armstrong. Sure is curious, all this apparent antipathy...

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Arms*Lenght*Relationships

My advise to you all: Do your own thing/Trust*Nobody......That´s why I don´t have best pals: Friends´ feel envy when you do well, get satisfaction when you fail, and will be quick to display anything they´d learn. OMERTA. Works best with POETS who work alone. Even my two ex-wifes sold me out for a meager profit,......To George, et al: RAT$...To USADA: $#%&*.....By Lance we stand!
Mediocre folks and losers you are all

 

[Anonymous]

Is this a surprise to anyone? I wrote about George, Levi, VDV, and Dave Z over a year ago.

Once again the clinic is far ahead of the media.

Yeah, the names listed are a pretty safe bet... Kind of points the finger directly at Camp Armstrong as the source for the story.

Leak info to the media with some misinformation then claim corruption and leaks by the USADA. It's transparent but what else is he going to do?

 

[ruamruam]

At this point everyone in cycling appears to have a grudge against Armstrong. Sure is curious, all this apparent antipathy...

There is a lot of hate in the world.

What about fast cadence and checking out the key stages beforehand? Didn't he just train harder than the others?

You're not saying... no it couldn't be true. but he had cancer.

No it the haters and some people just love cancer. Yea that's it. It's the cancer loving haters.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Yeah, the names listed are a pretty safe bet... Kind of points the finger directly at Camp Armstrong as the source for the story.

Leak info to the media with some misinformation then claim corruption and leaks by the USADA. It's transparent but what else is he going to do?

I hate de Telegraaf even more now.

But what a deal for them - A low quality Dutch rag gets to break a big story in the middle of the Tour, and in return Johan gets a bag of cash to pay for lawyers - and Lance can claim USADA are leaking like a sieve, and violating their own rules.

 

[MarkvW]

Vaughters has immediately come out and denied it:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-no-slipstream-sports-usada-suspensions

Anyway, this makes the Tour much more interesting now!

(1) Only a subset of names was published. If somebody really had access to the USADA list, why wouldn't they name all the informants.

(2) The article uses the term "miraculously." That indicates partisanship--and a partisan source.

(3) The connection Brodeal points out. If Bruyneel writes a column for the paper, he is a plausible source.

(4) Vaughters denial of the six months' suspension 'miracle'. It is utterly inconceivable that Vaughters would be lying about something like this. There is too much at stake for him and he is not a moron. If Vaughters is telling the truth, then the part about the "six months" suspension is simply made up. If the six months' suspension is made up, then that casts real doubt on the authenticity of the names. It also indicates that the source is partisan.

This looks like a phony (and amateurish) attempt at suggesting a USADA leak. We've seen this before when Armstrong suggested a federal leak.

You just can't make this stuff up.

 

[zigmeister]

Is this a surprise to anyone? I wrote about George, Levi, VDV, and Dave Z over a year ago.

Once again the clinic is far ahead of the media.

For George, this is a big "so what!" He is retiring after the tour anyway.

Levi, well people have suspected. With his and Horner's amazing performances, particularly last year at the ToC, this year, not so great...hmmm..paranoid and scared about doping since they already know they were targets or working on deals to testify, so they just didn't micro-dose and dope to avoid any chance/risk of getting caught.

Dave Z and VDV...yeah, more guys that many years ago had pretty terrific performances at times, yet the last few years...nothing, just average riders.

Easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but it all adds up.

Except, big George can still drill it dope free at the front of the Peloton, probably the guy that really didn't need to dope at all ever compared to others. Plus, he doesn't want to ruin his history breaking 17 Tour starts.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't see Vaughters flatly denying anything unless he's sure he's right and confident in what he's saying. Look how narrow the denial is.

Really puts doubt on the veracity of the story's particulars.

 

[Epicycle]

Reminds me of BALCO. A lawyer for one of the BALCO execs, Troy Ellerman, leaked grand jury testimony, which caused huge news. At the time the Feds got a lot of heat for the leak but eventually Ellerman was found out and went to prison for it.

Ellerman leaked the info because he felt his client was being unfairly treated by the investigation when top baseball players, including Barry Bonds, names had been redacted in the BALCO report. I wouldn't be surprised if Bruyneel had something to do with this leak, as other people in this thread have guessed. Just making sure the guys in the Tour feel the heat too. Maybe whoever provided the Telegraaf the names is hoping some of the 5 get booted from the Tour. Could be a message trying to say...if you testify against me, looked how you'll be perceived as a doper. Definitely some spite involved.

 

[Cloxxki]

Any chance (some of) the riders already HAD their 6 months, in silence, Levi-style?
Say, sometime september->march? What's the longest any of them had between races last off-season?

 

[BroDeal]

I don't see Vaughters flatly denying anything unless he's sure he's right and confident in what he's saying. Look how narrow the denial is.

Really puts doubt on the veracity of the story's particulars.

The paper's source (Bruyneel) does not have complete information so he is guessing or completely making up the suspension details. Unfortunately for him, he was too stupid to take the statute of limitations into account.

 

[MarkvW]

I don't see Vaughters flatly denying anything unless he's sure he's right and confident in what he's saying. Look how narrow the denial is.

Really puts doubt on the veracity of the story's particulars.

I read it as Vaughters flatly denying that a six month suspension is in place.

 

[Race Radio]

Reminds me of BALCO. A lawyer for one of the BALCO execs, Troy Ellerman, leaked grand jury testimony, which caused huge news. At the time the Feds got a lot of heat for the leak but eventually Ellerman was found out and went to prison for it.

Ellerman leaked the info because he felt his client was being unfairly treated by the investigation when top baseball players, including Barry Bonds, names had been redacted in the BALCO report. I wouldn't be surprised if Bruyneel had something to do with this leak, as other people in this thread have guessed. Just making sure the guys in the Tour feel the heat too. Maybe whoever provided the Telegraaf the names is hoping some of the 5 get booted from the Tour. Could be a message trying to say...if you testify against me, looked how you'll be perceived as a doper. Definitely some spite involved.

There is a very good correlation with BALCO. Lance and his paid liars have even pointed to the leaks in the BALCO case as evidence that Jeff and the Feds had a history of leaks.....ignoring the fact that the leaks came from the defense, not the Feds.

Armstrong realizes he has no chance so he will cause as much damage as possible to all involved.

 

[zigmeister]

Latest news, Hincapie and other's are denying the story and they aren't facing any suspensions.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...strong-witnesses-at-the-tour-de-france_227631

 

[Mach Schnell]

There is a lot of hate in the world.

What about fast cadence and checking out the key stages beforehand? Didn't he just train harder than the others?

You're not saying... no it couldn't be true. but he had cancer.

No it the haters and some people just love cancer. Yea that's it. It's the cancer loving haters.

LOL!!
To paraphrase the Great Dubya, "you're either for Armstrong, or for Cancer"
LA is a **** for so many other reasons besides doping.
Even if he did dope (you'd have to be pretty naive at this point to think he was pure a driven snow), the bottom line is that the whole field of GC contenders at the time were doped to the gills. LA is essentially going to be punished for being smarter than everyone else. He trained harder and smarter. Period. He probably would have dominated regardless. He had the will and the $$ behind him.
At this point, it all smacks of revenge. Landis et al just want to see LA fall just as they did.
How will this make cycling better? Certainly not for me. Will LA going down make the roads safer for cyclists? No. Will it get more people on bikes? Not likely. Will it pump more cash into cycling? Probably not in North America.
I wish even half of the motivation for going after LA was being put into punishing those in the banking sector who were responcible for the economic meltdown we have experienced, or going after motorists who take out cyclists.
I guess arguing this in this forum is pretty much the equivelant of standing up in the Vatican and arguing the existence of God though.

 

[Bicycle tramp]

LOL!!
To paraphrase the Great Dubya, "you're either for Armstrong, or for Cancer"
LA is a **** for so many other reasons besides doping.
Even if he did dope (you'd have to be pretty naive at this point to think he was pure a driven snow), the bottom line is that the whole field of GC contenders at the time were doped to the gills. LA is essentially going to be punished for being smarter than everyone else. He trained harder and smarter. Period. He probably would have dominated regardless. He had the will and the $$ behind him.
At this point, it all smacks of revenge. Landis et al just want to see LA fall just as they did.
How will this make cycling better? Certainly not for me. Will LA going down make the roads safer for cyclists? No. Will it get more people on bikes? Not likely. Will it pump more cash into cycling? Probably not in North America.
I wish even half of the motivation for going after LA was being put into punishing those in the banking sector who were responcible for the economic meltdown we have experienced, or going after motorists who take out cyclists.
I guess arguing this in this forum is pretty much the equivelant of standing up in the Vatican and arguing the existence of God though.

So, amongst those who have ripped us off, you wish to make an exception for cyclists?

 

[thehog]

Any chance (some of) the riders already HAD their 6 months, in silence, Levi-style?
Say, sometime september->march? What's the longest any of them had between races last off-season?

For the last time the 6 month thing is made up. Who said anything about 6 month suspensions?

 

[red_flanders]

I read it as Vaughters flatly denying that a six month suspension is in place.

Yes, agreed.

 

[Cloxxki]

For the last time the 6 month thing is made up. Who said anything about 6 month suspensions?

So are quite a few of your posts.
I took it from the newspaper and thought of a possible way for this thing alreayd being in the distant past for the riders in question.

 

[BroDeal]

Uh-oh. The fanboys on Slowtwitch are already starting after Hincapie. This is going to get ugly.

 

[iZnoGouD]

Uh-oh. The fanboys on Slowtwitch are already starting after Hincapie. This is going to get ugly.

linklinklink

 

[Catwhoorg]

per WADA code, anti-doping sanctions are posted for at least 12 months.

USADA goes above and beyond that
http://www.usada.org/sanctions/

They would be on that list had they been given during a previous off season.

 

[oldschoolnik]

if...

If someone robs a local bank in Kalamazoo MI it doesn't effect me either (I live in New York) but I still want cops to arrest bank robbers... If someone uses EPO at a high school track meet in Spokane WA-- I still want them to face whatever criminal punishment or sporting sanctions they should face--you can't cherry pick where you enforce the rules...

Will someone please post the 5 stages of Lance Fanboy defenses:
Denial
They all doped
It doesn't affect me/won't clean up the soprt
(new) Lance is scapegoat

 

[thehog]

So are quite a few of your posts.
I took it from the newspaper and thought of a possible way for this thing alreayd being in the distant past for the riders in question.

No one other than those involved know what, If any, reduced sentences they received. The article is quoting their “source” (Bruyneel) suggesting that the Postal 5 “cut a deal”. I guess what Armstrong will be telling us next week is that is the witnesses either changed their testimony to blame Armstrong to cover their own doping and/or were lured to make things up about Armstrong to avoid suspension.