USADA - Armstrong

[D-Queued]

For me, the story isn't over until Lance sues his attorneys.

Match the character with their actions. You just know its coming...

Dave.

 

[python]

Perhaps someone can clear these things up for me. USADA claim that blood samples taken from Armstrong in 2009 and 2010 were

How did they get this information .
some of the information was posted by Armstrong himself until he figured out his duping the public was exposed. The rest of the data usada got with wada’s help. I suspect the was also part of the novitzki investigation.

Whom would have done the tests..
Armstrong’s blood tests in 2009 and 2010, like the rest of the peloton’s, was performed by the Lausanne lab. The lab does not know riders names. The results were passed to the uci.

And, why were they not flagged at the time?
This is the key question. Ashenden shed a lot of light as to how the bio passport evaluation works. (Btw, ashenden made it clear that he did NOT see the data usada referred to). Chances are the Armstrong data was INDEED flagged but it takes several other steps (to meet a stringent legal confidence criteria) before a positive can be declared. Either the suspicious data was hushed up by the uci or there were other objective hurdles that prevented declaring a positive. When usada said ‘fully consistent with blood manipulation’ they don’t necessarily mean a 100%, stand-alone positive was missed or covered up but that there is sufficient confidence (based on a so far anonymous blood expert) to consider the 2009-10 test results corroborative to some other evidence of blood manipulation the usada is quiet about. Iow, the totality of the evidence is what the usada hints at.

The UCI apparently have disposed of these samples even though they are meant to keep them for 7 or 8 years.
Blood samples intended for biopassport, though theoretically possible, are not typically stored for that long. The reasons are technological and economical. That said, other components of blood intended for anti-doping testing (plazma for ex.) can be easily frozen and stored for years.

Who 'owns' the blood passports?
This was answered above - the uci. But the ownership becomes irrelevant when the physical samples can not be retested. Luckily for the usada, they now have the data extracted from the original tests. also, wada has access to the data too and is a powerful normalizing factor when it suspects shenanigans (as they let the uci known occasionally)

 

[JRTinMA]

For me, the story isn't over until Lance sues his attorneys.

Match the character with their actions. You just know its coming...

Dave.

First, I want him to try and use the new Supreme Court decision expanding the rights of the accused to accept a plea. He claims bad legal advice and just wants to talk to USADA now, never knew it could be so simple...

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

How did they get this information .
some of the information was posted by Armstrong himself until he figured out
...
he data too and is a powerful normalizing factor when it suspects shenanigans (as they let the uci known occasionally)

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. The information that yourself, RaceRadio and a few select others post are most informative and very much appreciated.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

Here's a general question about the case:

Are the 1999 (and 2000-2005) samples still available? If so, can USADA obtain them and do relevant retroactive testing on them with modern tests? Why or why not?

Good question, I would like to know this as well. I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere but I'm also sure there are people that know this from the top of their heads.

A tweet from @Charles_Pelkey

This is a previous ruling by the same judge -

http://liveupdateguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Sparks-show-cause-order.pdf

Straight shooter.

Awesome judge.

He's done. Remember?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6kc1w7ScS...mstrong-Bicycling-Magazine-May-2011-Rolex.jpg

Funny headlines on that magazine in the context of the current events: "Lance retires. He's done. But is he finished?" Answer: seems like it!

I don't think they expected the judge to rule so quickly. My guess and the reason it was 80-pages was to tie it up pass the USADA deadline. They would have them claimed its with a Federal Court and they cannot proceed until the judge rules. What Armstrong didnt expect was a returned judgement in half a day! Brilliant!

Yes, I also think tieing up the case was the reason for submitting so many unnecessary pages.

 

[cprior]

thanks for the comprehensive reply. The information that yourself, raceradio and a few select others post are most informative and very much appreciated.

+000000001

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How did they get this information .
some of the information was posted by Armstrong himself until he figured out his duping the public was exposed. The rest of the data usada got with wada’s help. I suspect the was also part of the novitzki investigation.

Whom would have done the tests..
Armstrong’s blood tests in 2009 and 2010, like the rest of the peloton’s, was performed by the Lausanne lab. The lab does not know riders names. The results were passed to the uci.

And, why were they not flagged at the time?
This is the key question. Ashenden shed a lot of light as to how the bio passport evaluation works. (Btw, ashenden made it clear that he did NOT see the data usada referred to). Chances are the Armstrong data was INDEED flagged but it takes several other steps (to meet a stringent legal confidence criteria) before a positive can be declared. Either the suspicious data was hushed up by the uci or there were other objective hurdles that prevented declaring a positive. When usada said ‘fully consistent with blood manipulation’ they don’t necessarily mean a 100%, stand-alone positive was missed or covered up but that there is sufficient confidence (based on a so far anonymous blood expert) to consider the 2009-10 test results corroborative to some other evidence of blood manipulation the usada is quiet about. Iow, the totality of the evidence is what the usada hints at.

The UCI apparently have disposed of these samples even though they are meant to keep them for 7 or 8 years.
Blood samples intended for biopassport, though theoretically possible, are not typically stored for that long. The reasons are technological and economical. That said, other components of blood intended for anti-doping testing (plazma for ex.) can be easily frozen and stored for years.

Who 'owns' the blood passports?
This was answered above - the uci. But the ownership becomes irrelevant when the physical samples can not be retested. Luckily for the usada, they now have the data extracted from the original tests. also, wada has access to the data too and is a powerful normalizing factor when it suspects shenanigans (as they let the uci known occasionally)

I'm open to correction on this - but from memory samples only need to be retained for 3 months. However thats for normal testing, perhaps there is a different procedure for BP samples, but I would doubt it and assume USADA are relying on the data from the results.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Paying lawyers to draft and file a set of pleadings will have cost the kind of money Armstrong may or may not bother to stop and pick up if he dropped on the floor. The legal battle as a whole will likely cost enormous money, but aside from major hearings, it will be through a gradual accumulation of costs not individual incidents.

Or the courts won't have anything to do with it. What's he going to do, besides this. When he loses, and tries to sue USADA or twitter haters that may be rejected by the court. He isn't off to a very good start.

 

[Oldman]

Or the courts won't have anything to do with it. What's he going to do, besides this. When he loses, and tries to sue USADA or twitter haters that may be rejected by the court. He isn't off to a very good start.

You are barking up the right tree. In an Olympic year what judge will want to derail USADA on a grasping Constitutional issue. Complicating the matter is US team goalie, Hope Solo just got a USADA warning for a controlled substance. She is one of the shining stars of current day Olympic athletics and would be an unseeming beneficiary of any sudden injunction. I'll bet it plays out.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens once they refile. Will they refile to the same judge or might another judge take it?

I will not ignore the politics of this. I believe that the judge was appointed by George W. Bush, which likely means that the judge is viewed as a conservative judge. Maybe Lance was hoping to get a conservative judge who has a low opinion of government agencies (psuedo-government agencies) like USADA...

Appointed by George HW Bush - 41st pres. (the father of George W Bush, 43rd pres).

 

[MarkvW]

For me, the story isn't over until Lance sues his attorneys.

Match the character with their actions. You just know its coming...

Dave.

For me, it's over with the inevitable Oprah appearance.

 

[thehog]

USADA announces Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Jose “Pepe” Martí have all received lifetime bans for USPS doping.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012

 

[screaming fist]

No waiting around there. Great news.

 

[Digger]

USADA announces Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Jose “Pepe” Martí have all received lifetime bans for USPS doping.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012

Why were they given this today, and not after any hearing, if there is one?

 

[alberto.legstrong]

For me, it's over with the inevitable Oprah appearance.

Problem is he doesn't wait for Oprah to play the pity-me card. He's a 3 note opera that a lot of people who aren't die hard robotic groupies have been hearing for too many years. He didn't leave any meat on the bone for poor old Orca.

If you don't want to walk off the stage on cue, you may be forcibly removed to the sound of boos and jeers. He doesn't know it's over. He'll never accept it. Rather than gracefully become Lance Who he'd rather be the punchline in latenight talk show monologues. I am looking forward to it.

 

[thehog]

Why were they given this today, and not after any hearing, if there is one?

They failed to submit a response to the review board

 

[Maxiton]

USADA announces Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Jose “Pepe” Martí have all received lifetime bans for USPS doping.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012

Ruh roh. Some riders are going to be looking for a new doctor. They could have at least let them finish the Tour.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

USADA announces Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Jose “Pepe” Martí have all received lifetime bans for USPS doping.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012

. Boom .

 

[Clemson Cycling]

USADA announces Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Jose “Pepe” Martí have all received lifetime bans for USPS doping.

They have lifetime bans from what?

 

[Digger]

They failed to submit a response to the review board

Yeah i just realised it two secs after i replied to you. Very slow here today. Thanks man.

 

[Square-pedaller]

Am I right in thinking that they have forfeited any right of appeal by not requesting a hearing, or can they appeal the sentence?

Has Bruyneel asked for a hearing?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

They failed to submit a response to the review board

Right, to get an extension you have to ask for one, as Armstrong did. Apparently so did Bruyneel and Lezama, or they already asked for a hearing. But these three did not respond with a request for a hearing or an extension by the deadline, so the hammer already came down on them.

This is obviously what will happen to the other three if they don't ask for a hearing. But Armstrong has already conceded that the same will result for him even with a hearing, because it's a "kangaroo court" and he can't compel (unidentified) witnesses to testify.

 

[spetsa]

They have lifetime bans from what?

From infecting the sport any longer.

 

[Cal_Joe]

"The other respondents in this case have either asked for and been granted a five-day extension to complete their response, or have requested to move forward with an arbitration hearing..."

Interesting - JB going forward with a hearing?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

They have lifetime bans from what?

Read the announcement!

A Lifetime period of Ineligibility as described in the Code prevents these individuals from participating in any activity or competition organized by any signatory to the Code or any member of any signatory.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012