USADA - Armstrong

[Merckx index]

Say any predictions on how/when USADA and/or judge will respond?

I think Sparks will feel obligated to respond by the USADA deadline for requesting a hearing, Saturday I think. And surely LA's team got this in as fast as possible to give him as much time as possible.

I agree with you that par. 26 is one to watch, the argument that USADA was not in existence in the late 90s, and UCI had not signed onto it in the early 00s. OTOH, if that's a possible argument, what was the point of all those tests of LA from 2000-2003? Are they saying that if LA had tested positive in the U.S. in, say, 2002, he would not have been banned?

I think the judge will dismiss this complaint, though it's not a slam dunk. If he does, what will LA do:

1) request a hearing
2) not request a hearing and go full bore on the PR kangaroo court option
3) try to make a deal saving some of his titles and getting a finite rather than lifetime ban

I think he will request a hearing.

 

[PedalPusher]

Last week I wrote the same thing but so far nobody has caught on as to why Lance is so scared to make any kind of sworn declaration. Given your knowledge of the law I am sure you can figure it out

Hint: Think Criminal

It isn't over

Yeah I agree, call me crazy, he is fighting this with everything and the kitchen sink because it opens him to perjury from SCA case. And who knows what his sponsorship contracts state. They could have clauses too. I'm sure he's aware of what happened to Marion Jones.

If he is found guilty by an arbitration panel, it opens him to lawsuits for years. He could and would be most likely financially ruined. But he deserves it IMHO.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

My buddy and I would get up and study alone until 2pm. We would get together at 2:30 and study until 7pm every day but Friday. Friday night we would go out to a bar where the manager was my friend's fiance. We would drink for free after the first drink--I usually downed half a bottle or so of Hennessy. Would sleep until whenever I woke up on Saturday and just do nothing the rest of the day. Then Sunday would start the same study routine until Friday rolled around.

A serious tip. On test day, do NOT take review materials with you and stay away from anyone who has them and is still going over material. If ya don't know it by then, ya don't know it and there's no sense making yourself crazy to mess up what you do know.

Thanks! That sounds reasonable, and is similar to how I study now. I always try to leave a day where I have nothing on my study schedule. I may dicker around with something, but nothing official. I don't drink anymore, but Friday night is my night to go eat really great food with my family now, so I will stick to that.

I quit taking note cards or anything to exam day. I leave everything at home when I go to take one, so that will also won't be a change for me. I still have a year and a half though...it will fly by I am sure. I was chosen for the civil rights clinic this fall with the single greatest professor I have ever had, and I have a feeling that this semester will be a lot of fun...and work.

Thanks for taking the time to impart your wisdom, one thing I always seem to get from attorneys is that we are all in this together even when you've passed the bar.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

It's moot point, but interesting attempt. I can see where they get $75k, loss of earnings(sponsorships) being paid to race Tri's, etc...of course that is all speculative. But the diversity issue only holds if the judge buys into the jurisdiction argument. That USADA has no arbitration agreement with Armstrong through any means of any governing body.

Which I don't see how, because he allowed them to OOC test by his own pleading, and then he states that there was not any agreement prior to 2004? But then there was signatory agreement with UCI and USADA after 2004?

It's still a scatter-gun approach to his arguments, lets try this, but if that doesn't work, lets use this, which is fine, it happens sometimes, but in this case he has no supporting authorities in any of his arguments.

Yea, it is going to be hard to argue that he submitted to their jurisdiction over the past years when he gave samples, and never made any kind of legal fight about that, but now all of a sudden they have no jurisdiction over him. He has constructively admitted they do have jurisdiction already.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

It's moot point, but interesting attempt. I can see where they get $75k, loss of earnings(sponsorships) being paid to race Tri's, etc...of course that is all speculative. But the diversity issue only holds if the judge buys into the jurisdiction argument. That USADA has no arbitration agreement with Armstrong through any means of any governing body.

Which I don't see how, because he allowed them to OOC test by his own pleading, and then he states that there was not any agreement prior to 2004? But then there was signatory agreement with UCI and USADA after 2004?

It's still a scatter-gun approach to his arguments, lets try this, but if that doesn't work, lets use this, which is fine, it happens sometimes, but in this case he has no supporting authorities in any of his arguments.

Can anyone confirm that Armstrong has not filed any supporting affidavit of facts to support the TRO request, nor has he filed a memorandum of law in support of his TRO request. I will check PACER in the morning--too difficult to remember my PACER password after a couple of Boodles and tonic....

 

[Hugh Januss]

You'll be fine. Just don't forget to breathe during the exam.

And don't puke.








If you do, ask for a clean test book.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

So here is what the judge asked for:

(1) the basis for this Court's jurisdiction;
(2) the legal claims he is asserting;
(3) against which Defendants each claim is being made;
(4) the factual allegations supporting each claim;
(5) a brief statement of why such facts give rise to the claim;
(6) a statement of the relief sought; and
(7) why his claims entitle him to such relief

Did he get it?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Yea, it is going to be hard to argue that he submitted to their jurisdiction over the past years when he gave samples, and never made any kind of legal fight about that, but now all of a sudden they have no jurisdiction over him. He has constructively admitted they do have jurisdiction already.

All together now, everyone say, "estoppel."

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I think Sparks will feel obligated to respond by the USADA deadline for requesting a hearing, Saturday I think. And surely LA's team got this in as fast as possible to give him as much time as possible.

I agree with you that par. 26 is one to watch, the argument that USADA was not in existence in the late 90s, and UCI had not signed onto it in the early 00s. OTOH, if that's a possible argument, what was the point of all those tests of LA from 2000-2003? Are they saying that if LA had tested positive in the U.S. in, say, 2002, he would not have been banned?

I think the judge will dismiss this complaint, though it's not a slam dunk. If he does, what will LA do:

1) request a hearing
2) not request a hearing and go full bore on the PR kangaroo court option
3) try to make a deal saving some of his titles and getting a finite rather than lifetime ban

I think he will request a hearing.

With his personality, and the reality of knowing that the people who will testify will hang him because he knows what they will testify to (he was there), I think his only option will be to fight the PR war and pretend he was unfairly crucified (I'm sure the religious symbolism is appropriate to his narcissistic picture of his life). He will also fight to keep anything that would have been revealed in arbitration from the public (unsuccessfully I believe). This tact would also still give him the cover of "I said I wasn't going to fight this...and what I really meant was I wasn't going to fight this kangaroo court that was never fair or anything because to lower myself to agreeing to their arbitration would be to admit I think they are legitimate, so I will continue to fight for the people in the future who may be subjected to this #unconstitutional process because like after I got cancer and became Cancer Jesus, I must become Due Process Jesus..."

Just admit you doped Lance...seriously...

 

[ScienceIsCool]

I know we have some corp lawyers here. Any estimates on what this is costing him in dollars just for the lawyer end of things?

Yes, I know a lot. Thanks in advance for all your punchlines, I can write a million of those too. But I am serious.

I'm in Vancouver, Canada. A one page letter from a good local attorney to my ex-wife cost me near one thousand. Extrapolate...

John Swanson

 

[thehog]

My buddy and I would get up and study alone until 2pm. We would get together at 2:30 and study until 7pm every day but Friday. Friday night we would go out to a bar where the manager was my friend's fiance. We would drink for free after the first drink--I usually downed half a bottle or so of Hennessy. Would sleep until whenever I woke up on Saturday and just do nothing the rest of the day. Then Sunday would start the same study routine until Friday rolled around.

A serious tip. On test day, do NOT take review materials with you and stay away from anyone who has them and is still going over material. If ya don't know it by then, ya don't know it and there's no sense making yourself crazy to mess up what you do know.

Good story! Brings back memories. Although I did it the other way round. Drank from Tuesday through Sunday and studied on Mondays only!

Although I wasn't doing law!

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Yea, it is going to be hard to argue that he submitted to their jurisdiction over the past years when he gave samples, and never made any kind of legal fight about that, but now all of a sudden they have no jurisdiction over him. He has constructively admitted they do have jurisdiction already.

As I understand it, his argument is that the USADA has jurisdiction to do the testing because they were asked by UCI to do the testing, but they don't have jurisdiction to do the investigation that lead to these charges because they were not asked by UCI to do it.

 

[Microchip]

Hog: Thanks for the update on Dim.

Microchip: Are you drawing those strips? I've enjoyed them.

TFF, PedalPusher, Warhawk, et al: Get through 95's linked document and tell this literature major how it looks from a legal angle.

Mr. Tibbs, yes I've been drawing them. Glad they're enjoyed.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

As I understand it, his argument is that the USADA has jurisdiction to do the testing because they were asked by UCI to do the testing, but they don't have jurisdiction to do the investigation that lead to these charges because they were not asked by UCI to do it.

I thought he was suggesting that they had no jurisdiction at all? If his argument is what you say, well, that should be a sure loser...

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Amazing **** in this ABC news piece:

For those who wonder what doctors have to do with a cycling team, this gets to the very essence of one of the biggest questions in sport right now: If Lance Armstrong doped, how did he do it? After all, he passed scores of drug tests every year he was racing.

According to former Armstrong teammates, doctors and trainers like the three men USADA essentially convicted, are frequently used to run what some in the sport have referred to as a team's "medical program."

Cycling and the Tour de France have been ravaged by doping scandals for many years. But USADA claims that Armstrong's US Postal Service Team in particular ran a doping program more sophisticated than the competition.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lance-arms...-banned-doping/story?id=16750719#.T_zMEBecAwc

They're copy-pasting Clinic posts! Finally!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah I agree, call me crazy, he is fighting this with everything and the kitchen sink because it opens him to perjury from SCA case. And who knows what his sponsorship contracts state. They could have clauses too. I'm sure he's aware of what happened to Marion Jones.

If he is found guilty by an arbitration panel, it opens him to lawsuits for years. He could and would be most likely financially ruined. But he deserves it IMHO.

Said this too. The SCA case (& sponsor contracts) is making him fight until the end. Just hope there´s no way out for him.

Take the easy way out Lance: Admit and save some money and live silent in some 3rd world;

 

[Krebs cycle]

I just read the story about Ferrari accepting his lifetime ban and this was interesting.....

USADA CEO Travis Tygart confirmed to Cyclingnews that Ferrari, Del Moral and Marti accepted their lifetime bans. "The respondents chose not to waste resources by moving forward with the arbitration process, which would only reveal what they already know to be the truth of their doping activity.

....the bit in bold made me salivate at the mere thought of Ferrari himself turning whistleblower. I suppose he never would, but it would be really awesome if somehow somewhere deep in his heart he knew that he has corrupted the sport of cycling and wishes to cleanse himself of his sins and confess all.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I thought he was suggesting that they had no jurisdiction at all? If his argument is what you say, well, that should be a sure loser...

Let me restate.

As I understand it, his argument is that the USADA would have jurisdiction to do the investigation that lead to these charges if they had been asked by the UCI to do it.

I surmise from this that he concedes their jurisdiction in doing the testing because it was explicitly sanctioned by the UCI.

 

[Big Doopie]

He could and would be most likely financially ruined. But he deserves it IMHO.

that is the very least he deserves. he deserves prison for a very long time. he is a criminal. a mafia boss.

and what keeps being ignored -- particularly in the press -- is that he has committed terrible harm to many honorable people and profited from it.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Let me restate.

As I understand it, his argument is that the USADA would have jurisdiction to do the investigation that lead to these charges if they had been asked by the UCI to do it.

I surmise from this that he concedes their jurisdiction in doing the testing because it was explicitly sanctioned by the UCI.

See paragraph 29 on p. 8:

UCI never delegated its jurisdiction to USADA. UCI cannot,
under the UCI ADR, delegate its authority until UCI has independently concluded that it is likely that a violation of the UCI ADR has occurred. In this case, none of the requirements for a delegation of authority has been satisfied. ... There has been, therefore, a failure of an essential condition
precedent to delegation.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

that is the very least he deserves. he deserves prison for a very long time. he is a criminal. a mafia boss.

and what keeps being ignored -- particularly in the press -- is that he has committed terrible harm to many honorable people and profited from it.

I think his victims will be ok with it if he goes bankrupt. They know, we know, i know: Lance can´t live the life of an "Avg. Joe". That´s like prison for him. He´ll never get over it. I sense a ending like Pantani. Only difference: I feel sorry for Pantani.

 

[PedalPusher]

that is the very least he deserves. he deserves prison for a very long time. he is a criminal. a mafia boss.

and what keeps being ignored -- particularly in the press -- is that he has committed terrible harm to many honorable people and profited from it.

GAWD, wouldn't a RICO suit be nice?

 

[ManInFull]

that is the very least he deserves. he deserves prison for a very long time. he is a criminal. a mafia boss.

and what keeps being ignored -- particularly in the press -- is that he has committed terrible harm to many honorable people and profited from it.

Believe me, if USADA's case is successful, he will be vilified like no athlete in history. Writers will be eager to pile on him...

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Believe me, if USADA's case is successful, he will be vilified like no athlete in history. Writers will be eager to pile on him...

Indeed. They more they loved, they farther they have to fall. That's why they're so reluctant to jump.

 

[ElChingon]

I just read the story about Ferrari accepting his lifetime ban and this was interesting.....

....the bit in bold made me salivate at the mere thought of Ferrari himself turning whistleblower. I suppose he never would, but it would be really awesome if somehow somewhere deep in his heart he knew that he has corrupted the sport of cycling and wishes to cleanse himself of his sins and confess all.

Didn't he already have a lifetime ban? Now two, I think he doesn't mind as he'll still work as he has with the first lifetime ban, don't foresee him changing his ways after all he'll probably just carry a gallon of Orange Juice in his RV and show it as his proof he's only testing his OJ theory.