USADA - Armstrong

[polisheggplant]

The world will undoubtably be a safer, better place with LA behind bars.
This is as huge as the arrest of Radovan Karadzic.

You know they can't bring criminal charges on him right. That case was dropped. This can only ban him from the sport. For Life..

 

[Freddythefrog]

Grab a beer

I don't know who the poster was who made a great comment on the news of the start of the Federal inquiry that - now was the time to grab a beer, pull up a chair and watch the fun. Well I think that was in 2010 sometime.

Well it sure has been a slow burn. I must admit I had lost all faith. JN going nowhere was a tough pill to take. I thought our LA had made it to the smooth clear water. He is not convicted of anything yet but at least there is a chance.

I now need the Ciprelli case to get going and then I will crack open another beer and think there may be hope for the future.

I tried searching for the comment but had no joy. If anyone can get it and quote part of it here, It would be good to read it again.

 

[Benotti69]

True, but it is going to cost him ALOT more money now...I don't know how far he can dip into his livestrong account...but who knows...

The Onion, I think it was, used to sell "cheat to win" bracelets awhile back...perhaps they still do...

Was it not claimed LieStrong accummulated $500million under the terms 'fight cancer' and then 'raise awareness' I think he has a few bobs in the bank

 

[polisheggplant]

This could end up like the O.J. Simpson case I suppose. Let go in criminal court for the murders he was ordered to pay restitution for in civil court...... And since in cycling, committing the act of blood doping (and getting caught (thats the key)) is equal to murder in the cycling forum world, the similarities are not a surprise at all. What is a surprise is that they still have not found a fair and consistant way to test for doping so that all, not just some get caught...

 

[polisheggplant]

This could end up like the O.J. Simpson case I suppose. Let go in criminal court for the murders he was ordered to pay restitution for in civil court...... And since in cycling, committing the act of blood doping (and getting caught (thats the key)) is equal to murder in the cycling forum world, the similarities are not a surprise at all. What is a surprise is that they still have not found a fair and consistant way to test for doping so that all, not just some get caught...

We could just legalize it couldn't we. Not criticize it

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The world will undoubtably be a safer, better place with LA behind bars.
This is as huge as the arrest of Radovan Karadzic.

Hi Mach,
You obviously haven't been keeping in touch but the Fed case against Armstrong was halted earlier in the year. This current case in by USADA who cannot put people in jail.
Also, as you are playing catchup, Whitney Heuston is dead.

True, but it is going to cost him ALOT more money now...I don't know how far he can dip into his livestrong account...but who knows...

The Onion, I think it was, used to sell "cheat to win" bracelets awhile back...perhaps they still do...

I think the Fed case could have cost him a lot more money - although there is a fine system in place now in Anyi-doping, but this will impact on his ability to make money in the future and probably more importantly his 'legacy' will be in tatters.

 

[polisheggplant]

Hi Mach,
You obviously haven't been keeping in touch but the Fed case against Armstrong was halted earlier in the year. This current case in by USADA who cannot put people in jail.
Also, as you are playing catchup, Whitney Heuston is dead.


I think the Fed case could have cost him a lot more money - although there is a fine system in place now in Anyi-doping, but this will impact on his ability to make money in the future and probably more importantly his 'legacy' will be in tatters.

I think Machs second point was a fair assesment of the rationale of some people though. Arresting Armstrong would be similar the arrest of a man accused genocide.... Yes, this is reasonalbe, no?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why is it that under USADA rules an athlete is banned from competing as soon as charges are brought? That's guilty until proven innocent. Forget that it's Armstrong or even what sport it is. Why is that okay?

He is not "banned", he is suspended, and it is not USADA rules, it is a WADA rule, to which USADA is a signatory.
As to the whys - this is not a criminal system, and as an athlete who doped would be back at their sport while they frustrate the process a suspension is entirely appropriate.

I do not think the ASO would take the step of awarding the TdF titles to no one. They never have and it's highly doubtful they ever will. That said, ideally is that what the ASO should do? Honestly I don't know.

We have some experience with that here in the US with pro baseball. It came out that for a number of years many of the top players were pumped up on steroids. They ended up choosing not to strip the records set, games won, etc. The problem was so widespread that it would have been very difficult to do so in a fair manner. I suppose the other alternative was to wipe those years completely from the books. To no one's surprise, that didn't happen.

As for Landis and Contador, I think you're missing a key part of my point. Did those yellow jerseys go to riders proven to have been doping? No. (Yes, I'm aware that there were allegations against Pereiro w/r to an asthma medication. They were investigated and his explanation was accepted.) That makes the situation quite different than handing Jan Ullrich three more yellow jerseys or awarding one of Armstrong's wins to Ivan Basso.

To the comment from another poster that the USADA doesn't care happens with the TdF titles... all they care about is pursuing the case against Armstrong... okay, that's fine. But pro cycling does care. If the USADA is successful in proving their case, the ASO and others have to decide what to do on their end. Do they pass the titles from one doper to another? Do they declare that no one won? Neither option is good, IMO.

On a side note, maybe this investigation will convince Radioshack to fire Bruyneel. They should do that for his incompetence this season anyway.

Hold on - Ullrich was sanctioned recentley because of Puerto, so there is nothing (legally) to suggest he was doped before that, so going by your logic he should be given the benefit and the Tours
You cannot have it both ways.

 

[SilentAssassin]

I remember that guy from Dailypeloton. Worst Armstrong defender ever.

Anyway, this whole ordeal brings up a couple issues.

1. How much did Discovery Channel know when they pulled the plug in such dramatic fashion? I am guessing they knew quite a bit.

2. What will RadioShackNissanTrekLeopardbutnoShleckexceptFrankenbuger do now? Will the sponsors bail given Bruyneel's involvement in the doping and trafficking investigation?

If they had that rational all sponsors should probably bail since every team has probably had a dirty rider. Although this is a bit of a larger scale since lance garners more attention than any other cyclist in the history of the sport.

 

[Caruut]

The world will undoubtably be a safer, better place with LA behind bars.
This is as huge as the arrest of Radovan Karadzic.

What point are you trying to make? Of course Lance's crimes are less than genocide (not that this is even a criminal case). Almost all crimes are less than genocide, but I don't hear anyone saying "Well it's not exactly genocide is it?" when a suspected murderer gets arrested. Don't really understand why you would be surprised that a doping forum on a cycling website is giving more attention to this than Karadzic. If you go to a Serbian news website, possibly you'll see what you want.

 

[BullsFan22]

He is not "banned", he is suspended, and it is not USADA rules, it is a WADA rule, to which USADA is a signatory.
As to the whys - this is not a criminal system, and as an athlete who doped would be back at their sport while they frustrate the process a suspension is entirely appropriate.



Hold on - Ullrich was sanctioned recentley because of Puerto, so there is nothing (legally) to suggest he was doped before that, so going by your logic he should be given the benefit and the Tours
You cannot have it both ways.

Being a fan of Ullrich's, I wouldn't mind seeing him being 'awarded' three TDF titles, but is that even remotely possible?! Should Armstrong be stripped of his titles, would Ullrich and Basso really get TDF titles? Perhaps this was already talked about earlier in the thread or in another thread, but I'm not sure if this could actually happen.

 

[BroDeal]

Geraint Thomas is pulling for Armstrong. He hopes we can all let it go to protect the reputation of cycling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/18442349

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Innuendos, rumours,....motley crew of ..........

I knew Chris Horner was one of the good, the proud,......who would not just sit idle at his SoCal training camp, and let a bunch of losers throw dirt i.e. assisting, encourage, aiding, abetting, covering up, complicity,....to dope! Then how come everyone just does not win 7 in a row, if everyone is doing it! EPO, testosterone, HGH, corticoesteroids, ephedrine, uppers, downers,....... It looks like the MLB probe. 10% of all players tested positive for a substance which was not illegal at the time. Only the Platinum Rappers-Big Leagues Dominican Batters names were disclosed.....witch hunt, vendetta, envy,.....I will suggest to Lance and Johan not to dignify answers to any questions from now on....and once cleared of wrongdoing just as the Justice Department did with its fraud scheme, file a counter demand for a zillion dollars against The Agency!!

 

[blackcat]

Geraint Thomas is pulling for Armstrong. He hopes we can all let it go to protect the reputation of cycling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/18442349

cos he is gonna be pulling for wiggins thru the mountains next year

 

[thehog]

Geraint Thomas is pulling for Armstrong. He hopes we can all let it go to protect the reputation of cycling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/18442349

"I hope he hasn't done anything wrong"

- ya think?

I think more worried about the obvisous conclusions people will make when they see the Sky train move.

Perhaps regretting those USPS references?

 

[Animal]

Arresting Armstrong would be similar the arrest of a man accused genocide.... Yes, this is reasonalbe, no?

You're certifiable.

As usual.

 

[hrotha]

"He has had numerous allegations thrown at him through the years but hopefully he hasn't done anything wrong. Hopefully people can let it go."

I REALLY hate it when pro cyclists try to take me for a fool. This is why the whole "it got better" mantra isn't credible, folks.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think Machs second point was a fair assesment of the rationale of some people though. Arresting Armstrong would be similar the arrest of a man accused genocide.... Yes, this is reasonalbe, no?

Armstrong has not been arrested- he broke the anti-doping rules and the anti-doping authority is pursing a case against him.
What is no in your language?

 

[joe_papp]

What point are you trying to make? Of course Lance's crimes are less than genocide (not that this is even a criminal case). Almost all crimes are less than genocide, but I don't hear anyone saying "Well it's not exactly genocide is it?" when a suspected murderer gets arrested. Don't really understand why you would be surprised that a doping forum on a cycling website is giving more attention to this than Karadzic. If you go to a Serbian news website, possibly you'll see what you want.

+1million lmfao

 

[The Hitch]

cos he is gonna be pulling for wiggins thru the mountains next year

Your a bit behind. Thomas is doing track olympics so won't be at the Tour.

 

[blackcat]

"next year".

Was implicit Hitch.

comprehension 101 son

 

[armstrong]

Just curious. Was Armstrong ever linked to doping prior to his 1993 world championship victory? Or is that victory considered by haters to be clean?

 

[blackcat]

well the mail on him is triathlon was the induction

 

[Normandy]

The reason they didn't act in 2010 was because of the Federal Investigation. They stated this at the time. That they'd wait for its conclusion before acting.

USADA have also being interviewing riders since 09/10 and collecting evidence. They have also been in touch with "bodies" in Europe whom have also passed on evidence.

Lets not get silly here.

You obviously are more knowledgeable than many on this subject, so could you explain

Why do you think USADA has chosen to take action 3 weeks before the Tour and just over a month before the Olympics?

Why did it not take action immediatley after Federal investigation ended? Instead of the focus on the cycling and sport, the media focus will be on this.

As Armstrong is not competing in either, why not leave it until August? What is to be gained by raising it now?

 

[The Hitch]

"next year".

Was implicit Hitch.

comprehension 101 son

yeah you are right, was a big fail by me

apologies