USADA - Armstrong

[Race Radio]

Two of the more knowledgable people discuss the happenings:

Bonnie Ford - http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8051461/usada-actions-lance-armstrong-start-series-events-strip-tour-de-france-titles

Charles Pelkey -http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/06/the-explainer-just-when-i-thought-i-was-out-they-pull-me-back-in/

Must be a sad day for you Joe, hope you are doing well.

If you read Bonnie's article you will see points that I have made here several times, thanks for the recognition.

Maybe she follows me on Twitter?

 

[polisheggplant]

There is a big difference between buying some guy's story and finding out the truth...and becoming a main propaganda organ to spread lies along with vested interests...you will notice, I hope, there aren't alot of baseball commentators still around spreading the gospel that their buddy Pete Rose never bet on baseball...rather, they are unemployed and most likely out at the racetrack...

I'll buy that its unethical to push on with a story that you know to be untrue simply for your personal gain. But don't be so sure every commentator to back a dirty athlete would be fired, and American sports are a fine example. Many of the commentators are former professional athletes themselves, and many make outlandish comments about what they believe all the time. Sometimes they get blasted and lay low for a while, but rarely are they banned from running their traps in the future somewhere else. And I'm sure the same goes in Europe and South America and where ever else sports are a huge part of the culture.

 

[frenchfry]

Horner: "Do we have pictures of it? Video or testing? Because without that you really don’t have anything.”

Good thing Horner knows how to ride a bike...don't believe any job having to do with intellectual stuff, or using the brain in general would have gotten him too far...

We may not have proof Horner is a doper, but we certainly have proof he is a major league dope. Yikes, what a clown! Or maybe he is a paid spokesman.

 

[Epicycle]

Back in 07 he was making drug references to USPS how it was possible to have 4-5 guys from one gem starting the final climb.

Yep, Horner in 2007 sung a much different tune about Lance and Postal:

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front -- and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07

 

[Benotti69]

Yep, Horner in 2007 sung a much different tune about Lance and Postal:

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front -- and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07

Now if we had a credible cycling media someone would ask Horner why would he join such a team?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Gomer? Name calling eh? We're all so brave on a keyboard. Any commentator worth anything should KNOW whats going on, and they all have a vested interest in perpetuating interest in the sport.. They praise every champion, and they're praising lance is no different than their praise of Alberto or any other dirty champion in this sport. And there are a lot of them. Gomer.....

Wwwut? Did you watch the 2009 Tour at all? Remember the one where the simple clueless Spaniard beat the Cycling Legend and was a bad teammate at the same time, because he didn't follow the team orders and wait for Legend.

 

[blackcat]

Yep, Horner in 2007 sung a much different tune about Lance and Postal:

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front -- and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07

but weak willed Horner can now recycle this sentiment for the Sky train

 

[The Gnome]

We may not have proof Horner is a doper, but we certainly have proof he is a major league dope. Yikes, what a clown! Or maybe he is a paid spokesman.

Yeah, maybe this could be the new UCI rule via doping: sans any video evidence of said rider shooting up he must be innocent... They could call it the Horner Evidence Rule...hopefully, Chris sticks with something simple when he too retires soon...

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don't know, I kind of believe Horner because he is a nice guy, and he has seen a real renascence to his cycling career, for which he would probably credit learning to train and think more like Armstrong.

 

[Epicycle]

Now if we had a credible cycling media someone would ask Horner why would he join such a team?

Yeah it's pretty sad that CN's Daniel Benson could do the new Horner interview without realizing that Chris was directly contradicting what he said in a past CN interview.

 

[GoGarmin]

"What am I on? I'm on my bike six hours a day, busting my ***."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U

 

[richtea]

What are the possible implications of the 2009 and 2010 incidents mentioned? Is the evidence purely bio-passport results or is there more to it?

 

[BroDeal]

"What am I on? I'm on my bike six hours a day, busting my ***."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U

The updated version of the Honey Stinger ad.

 

[polisheggplant]

Oh please.. "He's dancing on the pedals" should have been put on a loop the following year... All I'm saying is this is a dirty sport at the pro level. Reallly dirty, second only to boxing maybe for the fixes, but its dirty... And everybody wants to act like the guys that are caught are evil, but the ones that aren't are clean. I wish we could see a true statistic showing how many pro riders have doped for at least one or more events in their career. I'd bet some would be surprised.

 

[The Gnome]

What are the possible implications of the 2009 and 2010 incidents mentioned? Is the evidence purely bio-passport results or is there more to it?

To have used epo during the infamous exciting/lame/sad however you want to see it comeback after fighting the allegations for years shows not only hubris, but outright stupidity on the guy's part...

 

[blackcat]

The updated version of the Honey Stinger ad.

 

[richtea]

Agreed, its quite difficult to understand the motivation. But most of the charges are pretty common knowledge, this new stuff could be interesting if it is based on more than just test results.

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons-and-simeoni-say-armstrong-probe-is-overdue



Bassons said that USADA’s action was “important” but also long overdue. “It’s a shame now that it’s coming 15 years after it all happened. It’s a shame because the evidence was there for years. I knew all along what was happening, so this doesn’t change anything for me. I don’t need fifteen pages of documents to tell me what I knew already,” Bassons told Cyclingnews.

Simeoni had similarly mixed feelings. The Italian said the possibility of Armstrong being condemned for doping left him “cold”. Simeoni also “can’t understand why suddenly now they’re investigating him, when for years he was allowed to do whatever he wanted.”

“This all leaves me a bit cold now. I’ve taken myself out of that world completely,” he said. “I just can’t understand how justice has taken this long. There was always evidence, but nothing was done. Is what they've got that much more crushing now? Armstrong was allowed to do whatever he wanted for years. He was a superhero, untouchable. Now this. I suppose it just shows how the balance has shifted; before, I think there were forces greater than our understanding working to protect him; now there’s probably also a reason why they’ve decided to take him down.

“We’ll see how it goes,” Simeoni summed up. “I prefer not to dwell too much, because I have too many regrets if I do. This whole business really cut me down in my prime. Now it’d be nice to just get justice, although I still fear that this could rumble on for months if not years.”

 

[Mach Schnell]

The world will undoubtably be a safer, better place with LA behind bars.
This is as huge as the arrest of Radovan Karadzic.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If politics kept Horner from inclusion in the Tour, then good.

After this disgraceful interview, I lost all respect for him-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ituh5z6P6TU&feature=related

Yes that is such a disgusting interview!!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

To have used epo during the infamous exciting/lame/sad however you want to see it comeback after fighting the allegations for years shows not only hubris, but outright stupidity on the guy's part...

Hubris yes - but it wasn't a stupid decision. Armstrong had the UCI in his back pocket, all they could see was the euro/dollar that would be floating about from the return. They even waived their own rules to let him ride in Australia and collect his $2 million.

 

[Kimono]

To have used epo during the infamous exciting/lame/sad however you want to see it comeback after fighting the allegations for years shows not only hubris, but outright stupidity on the guy's part...

Not to mention the fact that he resumed doping after having nearly died from it. That to me is incomprehensible

 

[D-Queued]

Welcome back, DQ. Long time.


<snip..

Thanks.

The intermission (or RR's Half Time) was kind of boring, but good to see that the momentum has picked up.

A question:

What on earth was Lance doing in Frants anways?

1. I thought the French hated him

2. He already foreshadowed this story with the Men's Journal article a month or so ago.

He knew this was coming down, and STILL, STILL he heads to the land of Freedom Fries to compete.

He has no shame, no remorse and no fear of all of all of the pockets he has greased over the years.

Dave.

 

[The Gnome]

Hubris yes - but it wasn't a stupid decision. Armstrong had the UCI in his back pocket, all they could see was the euro/dollar that would be floating about from the return. They even waived their own rules to let him ride in Australia and collect his $2 million.

True, but it is going to cost him ALOT more money now...I don't know how far he can dip into his livestrong account...but who knows...

The Onion, I think it was, used to sell "cheat to win" bracelets awhile back...perhaps they still do...

 

[patrick767]

Why is it that under USADA rules an athlete is banned from competing as soon as charges are brought? That's guilty until proven innocent. Forget that it's Armstrong or even what sport it is. Why is that okay?

Ok, I'll play.
You wish to focus on what good for cycling - and then go on to say Armstrong should not have his titles stripped .
Can you articulate why it would be good for cycling to allow this one rider (the one who benefited the most in what you describe as the dirty era) keep his wins?

As for who should get the wins - I would be impressed if you had chimed in with this when Landis or Contador were caught and had their wins removed - but as you say the era was dirty, then give it to no-one, they are worthless anyway.
Let it be reminder that what went on was meaningless - that is a perfect way for cycling to move on.

I do not think the ASO would take the step of awarding the TdF titles to no one. They never have and it's highly doubtful they ever will. That said, ideally is that what the ASO should do? Honestly I don't know.

We have some experience with that here in the US with pro baseball. It came out that for a number of years many of the top players were pumped up on steroids. They ended up choosing not to strip the records set, games won, etc. The problem was so widespread that it would have been very difficult to do so in a fair manner. I suppose the other alternative was to wipe those years completely from the books. To no one's surprise, that didn't happen.

As for Landis and Contador, I think you're missing a key part of my point. Did those yellow jerseys go to riders proven to have been doping? No. (Yes, I'm aware that there were allegations against Pereiro w/r to an asthma medication. They were investigated and his explanation was accepted.) That makes the situation quite different than handing Jan Ullrich three more yellow jerseys or awarding one of Armstrong's wins to Ivan Basso.

To the comment from another poster that the USADA doesn't care happens with the TdF titles... all they care about is pursuing the case against Armstrong... okay, that's fine. But pro cycling does care. If the USADA is successful in proving their case, the ASO and others have to decide what to do on their end. Do they pass the titles from one doper to another? Do they declare that no one won? Neither option is good, IMO.

On a side note, maybe this investigation will convince Radioshack to fire Bruyneel. They should do that for his incompetence this season anyway.