USADA - Armstrong

[thehog]

I think he's (sort of) already lost. What we're seeing right now is just the tantrum that goes with losing. He'll always have his fanboy and fanboy-hires to prop-up the idea that he's still got something tangible to fight.

On this note, I do not think we'll ever see a big "V-L" (Victory over Lance) day where we all get to dance in the streets. Anything the USADA does to him will just be countered with his sponsors refusing to disown him, etc. There will be no making his "brand" go away overnight. If he gets his Tours taken away, then ASO will just decide to stop revising past results and re-awarding titles to the next-up. The UCI will say nothing. Nike will mostly be on to new athletes. Oakley will be the Jordache of fashion eyewear by that time too. LAF will shrink in its reach, and only his waning supply of die-hard fanboys will bother to identify with it.

Well in saying that when you read the news reports the headline is: "Armstrong lawyers slams doping probe".

Thats what Joe Public reads. But when you have 10 guys all saying the same thing its going to be hard to talk his way out of that one.

 

[Oldman]

Well in saying that when you read the news reports the headline is: "Armstrong lawyers slams doping probe".

Thats what Joe Public reads. But when you have 10 guys all saying the same thing its going to be hard to talk his way out of that one.

In the court of public opinion I'd have to believe his former teammates' testimony would be credible and frame LA's future profitability as a corporate entity.
The same testimony will likely fortify SCA's interest in recovering funds fraudulently gained and most insurance companies have more attorneys on retainer than Lance & friends can count. That would be a good start and ending.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I think he's (sort of) already lost. What we're seeing right now is just the tantrum that goes with losing. He'll always have his fanboy and fanboy-hires to prop-up the idea that he's still got something tangible to fight.

Indeed. You see these morons all over over message board, repeating the same story line over and over. Go over to RBR and you see how stupid some of these people really are. Unfortunately, that board has been inundated with the lowest common denominator.

Above it all, you have to appreciate the courage of certain people to stand up to garbage like Lance.

 

[mewmewmew13]

What is this ILLEGAL ACTIVITY the USADA is investigating?
Lance has already been cleared by the Feds on the ILLEGAL stuff.

And anyway, Novitsky and the Feds have to be 100% boy/girlscout honest.
So do the USADA. No cheating please

Stop making this sound like a truth. You know very well it is not...or I will report it.

 

[Cal_Joe]

I believe the minimum sentence is actually 6 months, and I wouldn't be surprised if all of those guys have their suspensions announced fairly soon...like, right after the TDF. I have to wonder if that wasn't a motivating factor for them removing themselves from Olympic consideration.

Also, since they're active witnesses it wouldn't surprise me if action isn't started against them until LA's trial is completed (but before the CAS appeal). I would imagine that USADA will gerrymander the suspension in a way that it impacts the riders the least amount, as a consideration to them for their cooperation. Personally, I think 1 year is reasonable. You have to give them consideration for cooperating, but they shouldn't just walk, either.

I don't really see what leverage these guys have. They testified for the GJ. Then, they supposedly give sworn testimony to the USADA. If that's the case, and the stories don't match, then they're looking at perjury charges, and visions of Marion Jones start dancing in their collective heads. So, they pretty much HAD to have consistent testimony. At least that's the way I see it. So, USADA really already had built-in leverage against these guys. A reduced suspension really just seems like a courtesy more than a necessity.

The applicable part of the USDA Protocol regarding cooperation is 10.5.3 - "Substantial Assistance in Discovering or Establishing Anti-Doping Rule Violations"

The pdf of the Protocol can be found at http://www.usada.org/files/pdfs/usada-protocol.pdf

Recommended reading. Not only that section but the entire document.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Well in saying that when you read the news reports the headline is: "Armstrong lawyers slams doping probe".

Thats what Joe Public reads. But when you have 10 guys all saying the same thing its going to be hard to talk his way out of that one.

American news articles are written by complete dolts. I read some of these articles and they're full of misspellings, misstatements, and erroneous conclusions.

Stupid articles written by stupid people. That's the American news industry.

 

[mewmewmew13]

You mean only a moron would let someone else photograph their drug use.

It's happened before though hasn't it?

 

[Cal_Joe]

Stop making this sound like a truth. You know very well it is not...or I will report it.

Since when has making stuff up in The Clinic (outside of you know who) been reportable? Rumor, speculation, wish lists - all those are posted here. Time for a reality check.

 

[Cal_Joe]

There was also the statement that leaked from the GJ ....

In case you did not get the memo, there were no leaks regarding GJ testimony.

None.

Never happened.

 

[thehog]

Indeed. You see these morons all over over message board, repeating the same story line over and over. Go over to RBR and you see how stupid some of these people really are. Unfortunately, that board has been inundated with the lowest common denominator.

Above it all, you have to appreciate the courage of certain people to stand up to garbage like Lance.

I do worry about this part. It so much what is being said but the fact that Armstromg is playing on these people's emotions. It's only going to make him look worse when it's all said and done. None the less even if there's video evidence of the broken down bus incident these people stil wouldnt believe it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Since when has making stuff up in The Clinic (outside of you know who) been reportable? Rumor, speculation, wish lists - all those are posted here. Time for a reality check.

Guess who has been banned before..
'trolling' IS reportable especially repeat offenders.
Reality. Check.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

In case you did not get the memo, there were no leaks regarding GJ testimony.

None.

Never happened.

You have proof that there were?

I think you need to read the post above that one. Just a suggestion.

 

[python]

Well, that or the review board decides there's not enough evidence to have a hearing. Anything's possible, but neither of those scenarios seem likely. There's too much information in the public domain right now.

Here's one big problem with Armstrong's War on the USADA and "the process". What happens if/when this makes it to a hearing? If you're going to complain about how unfair everything has been, you think you'd want the entire process open to the public, as is your right. Rut roh....

At that point, there's no winning the war of public opinion, even if he beats the rap on some procedural grounds. Yet, if he asks for the hearing to be closed to the public (as is also his right) then question becomes "what are you trying to hide?. Let's see this unfair process!".

It looks like there are a lot of bad options on the table and not much else.

let's review the balded...

it's hard to argue with the inherent reasonableness of the point made. it is squarely on the mark.

yet, when viewed closer and with the eventual outcome in mind, the point is one of the biggest blunders armstrong's team wants the usada to commit. and you 131313, one of the keenest and most valuable commentators here, are falling right for the bait!

explaining...the usada 15-page indictment is nothing short of a declaration of the total confrontation with armstrong, call it a war if you will. i am not a privy anymore, but i guess this attitude is the result of the long-running accumulated frustration with the in-your-face arrogant behavior of the accused despite the wealth of evidence of his doping.

usada is run by the people who are too smart to fall for the bait armstrong's laweres want them to - that is, transforming a clear-cut doping case into a public relations spectacle... usada will ignore and never comment on the reasons why armstrong wants the hearing closed, which he undoubtedly will. Doing otherwise is to fight the war the way your opponent wants, a big no-no when the stakes are high.

armstrong, as i expect him to, through his invariable arrogance will eventually dig his own grave and i expect the usada not interfering the digging

 

[Hugh Januss]

So you believe Lance allowed someone to take a picture or video of him using doping products... Not to mention the fact that my quote was "only a moron would allow..." meaning that I don't think Armstrong is that much of a moron. Being actually trained in the law, I am fully aware of the stupidity of the great majority of criminals.

But, if those photos show up, you can finally have the little win you keep chasing. Till then, your 0-5. I think you need a new coach or maybe a better Google hand or something...

EDIT: I do notice you stay away from putting out ignorant legal opinions now though. Good choice. You really just aren't that good at pretending to be legally competent.

To be fair though, I do remember seeing a photo of Leogrande posing infront of a fridge full of EPO vials and holding one. Obviously you could make the argument (and you'd win) that Lance is not as stupid as Kayle, but still some pictures do exist.

BTW My meager google skills could not turn up a copy of that pic anymore. It is gone much like June 22nd on CN forums.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

To be fair though, I do remember seeing a photo of Leogrande posing infront of a fridge full of EPO vials and holding one. Obviously you could make the argument (and you'd win) that Lance is not as stupid as Kayle, but still some pictures do exist.

BTW My meager google skills could not turn up a copy of that pic anymore. It is gone much like June 22nd on CN forums.

Maybe Armstrong is as dumb as Kayle (my statement left plenty of room for morons), but I think the very public mantra he had "Never doped, never tested positive, only ride my bike, only needed to take a shower because I was really tired and I didn't recognize the French guy, etc, etc, etc" suggests he is the kind who would grab your camera and hit you with it if you pulled it out while he had the needle in his arm. Maybe not, but I honestly don't think he would have allowed it. But we'll see because there have been hints that something like that exists. In all honesty, I wouldn't be happier to be wrong about something if that were it.

 

[Cal_Joe]

You have proof that there were?

I think you need to read the post above that one. Just a suggestion.

Of course I have no proof. If Hoggy says there were leaks, that's good enough for me. Damn, stop badgering people about other members quoted posts. Go ask Hoggy. Cheezus.

 

[Cal_Joe]

Guess who has been banned before..
'trolling' IS reportable especially repeat offenders.
Reality. Check.

If you wish to report his post as trolling, feel free to do so. If you want to make an articulate counterpoint to his post, feel free to do so.

Don't get into the "banned" thing - the list here is too long.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Of course I have no proof. If Hoggy says there were leaks, that's good enough for me. Damn, stop badgering people about other members quoted posts. Go ask Hoggy. Cheezus.

Hey, I believe in personal responsibility. If you don't want to be in the same corral with Hoggy, don't suggest the same things he does. I'm just trying to get you to not be a hypocrite about the same snide comments you post about others. I'm trying to do you a solid man, chill out.

 

[Cal_Joe]

If you don't want to be in the same corral with Hoggy...

I implore you to not force those unwanted mental images into my brain.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I implore you to not force those unwanted mental images into my brain.

Two big black stallions prancing about just doesn't work for you...okay, how about "bathtub"...nope, even worse. Okay, "in the same dull office building."

 

[Hugh Januss]

If you wish to report his post as trolling, feel free to do so. If you want to make an articulate counterpoint to his post, feel free to do so.

Don't get into the "banned" thing - the list here is too long.

Making an "articulate counterpoint" to Polish's posts is not possible as generally they really have no articulate point to counter.

 

[TubularBills]

For reference, here is a list of the likeliest suspects, and their years on USPS:

Hamilton 96-00
GH 97-04
Andreu 98-00
JV 98-99
Vande 98-03
Livingston 99-00
LL 00-01
Z 01-04
Landis 02-04

You mean, a reduced sanction? Maybe keep some titles?

As we start to speculate on who the '10 +' are it may be important to remember that you wouldn't necessarily have to be a U.S. Citizen to be a witness in the USADA hearings...

If we learned anything from the GJ investigation, it was of solidarity and synergy between international investigators.

LA going postal ****ed off a lot of people - I foresee allegiances beyond the myopic focus on America & key to the great unraveling...

Popovych, et. al.

465k.

Interpol.

The kit and contraband from the Astana years.

Perhaps the LieStrong camp is worried about the unknown variables.

Perhaps enough fraud and financial evidence will be revealed through this process to embolden and justify an all fronts assault...

i.e.

SCA and a reopening of the GJ with Federal indictments?

Does anyone know if Pro Athlete endorsement contracts carry a drug clause? (tarnishing a brand after signing a contract could carry damages?)

LA's lawyers will break the bank attempting to defend a 360 siege, and Mr. 500 is most likely arrogant enough to watch it happen.

Good thing KA got out when she did, otherwise there wouldn't be anything left for the kids. (I also wouldn't be surprised if she takes the stand... credibility?)

The sky is falling.

(popcorn anyone?)

 

[red_flanders]

If you feel a post is trolling please report it. Please don't continue discussing this in this thread. Thanks everyone.

 

[cleanmarine]

When will the Austin strippers and coke party photos appear?
Hoovering blow off a strippers a$$ should be the cover of the tell-all

 

[Jack Ruby]

"An individual familiar with the case but unauthorized to speak publicly about the matter said it was noteworthy that Armstrong stopped short in his response of submitting a sworn statement under oath that he has never doped."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lance-armstrong-20120623,0,2851391.story