USADA - Armstrong

[BroDeal]

I wonder when McQuaid will call Armstrong.

"I'm sure you weren't doing anything that everyone else wasn't doing. You're just the unlucky one who got caught. Accept a suspension because there's no way you can win."

 

[aphronesis]

More chance of openness and fullest disclosure. Best hope for beating the SOL.

Maybe prematurely bald Levi has already suffered enough for his steroid abuse.

As I said, the timeline. That would be the SOL. Re. openness and disclosure, I'm talking about the outcome "for the sport" in the present, not a catharsis of the past.

I'd say Levi's made out about as well as he can, but that's ducking the question--entirely. And it was likely part of the original point of the morning's disinformation campaign--such as it likely was.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

OK. I will play.

It is common clinic logic to use degrees of separation. "So and so rode for X" is used constantlly in here to label people dopers. You know this...don't act stupid. I am sure the hog and mewmew have piled on with this before, and then they trumpet this guy who rode for Saiz and Riis because they think he is a good guy. Give me a break, but it does expose how ****ed up the cult is.

Again, per your implication please find where I ever wrote LA was clean or rode for clean teams, or that what supposed witnesses claim is not true, or......you get my point. Why you keep beating the "3 docs, etc" drum is beyond me. Do I need to write something here that gets you out of this do-loop?

This place is funny. I get assigned BS just because I question the mob pretzel logic and hypocrisy.

Nope.
You "assign" things to cults, and Clinic logic -because two people say Sastre is a nice guy??
I stated that if the criteria you use is on teams - that's quite alright.

As to the blue - as i didnt "implicate" anything I wont bother looking for something that you made up - as you say "don't act stupid".

 

[red_flanders]

Forum Tip:

For those wanting an easier scroll through a busy thread such as this one, you can set the forum so that there are more posts per page. In the bar under your user name and the breadcrumb, on the far left click:

User CP > Edit Options (in the left navigation bar) > Thread display options module > Number of Posts to Show Per Page

Set to a number larger than the forum default (can't recall what that is). I go with 30. Longer scroll but far fewer page loads.

You are welcome.

 

[Random Direction]

Fascinating that of the five people called out, none currently ride for RadioShack.

Someone is playing hardball with Lance. Here Lance is likely intimidating and materially affecting probable witnesses, and ****ing people off in the process. Wouldn't doubt that Vaughters is getting a lot of sponsor pressure as well. Hopefully MSM picks up this angle of the story and runs with it. Even better would be for the courts to notice - if this was from a commoner to commenor it would be close to the point of restraining order.

He should be ashamed of himself and his puny tactics. Such a small, irrelevant man.

 

[Jeremiah]

Oh, we are all hypocrites here except you?

Carlos is a higher level human being than Armstrong.

While that may be true, you just can phrase it that way without appearing condescending, sanctimonious, and ridiculous.

Of course you can write whatever the heck you want to, but that sentence is completely over the top.

If you'd have combined it with some kind of self deprecation, I could understand, but just stated like that is....crazy....although probably true but who the heck am I to say such a thing like that?

I mean if you called LA a *** and Sastre a great guy it would've come off better.

You just can't write that sentence, you can't.

Yes, we are finally getting somewhere. It doesn't matter who dopes, it is whether or not we like him or not based upon what is in the public domain. We finally have agreement, mewmew.

It is not about the dope, but how people are percieved. Perhaps when testing does catch up they can equip the pis cup with a "higher level human being" filter so not to snag those that can be used to whack LA.

What am I a hypocrite about? Whatever it is, you cheering him with that past is a pretty far line in the sand for me to pass. I look forward to your reply, as always.

I think you've gone off the deep end a little but I agree with you here somewhat.

 

[Jeremiah]

If he does not show up then he will be sanctioned without a deal by the USADA.. From 60 minutes we know that Hincapie confessed to receiving/giving drugs from/to Armstrong, trafficking. RR has intimated that Hincapie pressured people not to talk, so maybe that opens up the SOL. If he does not cooperate then he will be hit with a very long ban. Perhpas most of his results get stripped.

Is he willing to fall on his sword so Armstrong gets away with it? Maybe, but it is unlikely to work. The Garmin guys cannot clam up without losing their jobs if we can believe JV. JV destroys his own credibility if he backs out. So no matter what Hincapie does, Armstrong is likely to be sanctioned to a degree. Hincapie not talking won't save Armstrong. What Hincapie is left with by not talking is upholding some sort of honor amongst thieves. It is possible he wants to maintain the image of a stand up guy, but does he want emails made public where he bullies other riders to keep silent? Does he want to be the bad guy? As it is now, he can spin the situation as being caught up in a bad situation that he got out of when High Road offered the opportunity.

Maybe explains Garmin chasing down George who then cried like a baby?

I loved that btw....

 

[mewmewmew13]

While that may be true, you just can phrase it that way without appearing condescending, sanctimonious, and ridiculous.

Of course you can write whatever the heck you want to, but that sentence is completely over the top.

If you'd have combined it with some kind of self deprecation, I could understand, but just stated like that is....crazy....although probably true but who the heck am I to say such a thing like that?

I mean if you called LA a *** and Sastre a great guy it would've come off better.

You just can't write that sentence, you can't.






<snip>

Carlos is a higher level human being than Armstrong.

 

[Mont Ventoux]

Good things come to those who wait....patiently.

A vicious cancer took hold of the Tour some time ago.
It implanted itself firmly on the hearts and minds of its fans and followers, and sucked it of every life sustaining breath....For SEVEN long dark years, this one-nut narcissistic cancer, totally devoid of a moral compass, ethically bankrupt, and consumed by self-grandeur, spread his cancerous ways throughout the peloton.
Just when the darkness started giving way to light, the cancer returned from remission, and well, you all know the rest of the story....

But what great joy has finally arrived!
A cure for this cancer has been found, and slowly , and with clinical application, this sorry blight on cycling looks to be exiting stage left, and heading back across the river Styx for good.

The untimely end of the Fed's investigation, had me definitely seeing the glass as half empty, but this latest USADA attempt to bring truth and justice to US cycling has me clearly seeing the syringe HALF-FULL !!!

It's good to be back!

 

[fatandfast]

pretty pathetic that witnesses can be named in the Armstrong case, all have pro racing credentials that are not subject to any current suspension .So Vaughters knew of Lance's use but said nothing until compelled by the USADA? resign.
George suited up on pro team after pro team but needle shared w Armstrong..resign. Levi sells wrist band mounted dog collars that have accurate medical info for a rider's safety? fold.quit. Big Z you keep on..the thought of you doing R&D on sweaty filthy sacks is awe inspiring may all boils burst your way.

The UCI lets these guys hold licenses, what kind of code of conduct do they maintain ?. Vaughters should have to read all the riders rights,anti doping comments he has made to a jury or judge or cellmate

If there is smoking gun evidence on these guys,even the team trial results should be reviewed.All the national championships that they all won or placed should be reviewed. And if it is true.6 month suspension id handed out rather than a lifetime ban the USADA is a joke and is really grabbing press by an all Armstrong campaign

 

[Random Direction]

pretty pathetic that witnesses can be named in the Armstrong case, all have pro racing credentials that are not subject to any current suspension .So Vaughters knew of Lance's use but said nothing until compelled by the USADA? resign.
George suited up on pro team after pro team but needle shared w Armstrong..resign. Levi sells wrist band mounted dog collars that have accurate medical info for a rider's safety? fold.quit. Big Z you keep on..the thought of you doing R&D on sweaty filthy sacks is awe inspiring may all boils burst your way.

The UCI lets these guys hold licenses, what kind of code of conduct do they maintain ?. Vaughters should have to read all the riders rights,anti doping comments he has made to a jury or judge or cellmate

If there is smoking gun evidence on these guys,even the team trial results should be reviewed.All the national championships that they all won or placed should be reviewed. And if it is true.6 month suspension id handed out rather than a lifetime ban the USADA is a joke and is really grabbing press by an all Armstrong campaign

good to see what the talking points are. please update us when they change

 

[Jeremiah]

Carlos is a higher level human being than Armstrong.

Now it's ok because it's a joke!

Feel free to make further proclamations from on high.

 

[red_flanders]

pretty pathetic that witnesses can be named in the Armstrong case, all have pro racing credentials that are not subject to any current suspension .So Vaughters knew of Lance's use but said nothing until compelled by the USADA? resign.
George suited up on pro team after pro team but needle shared w Armstrong..resign. Levi sells wrist band mounted dog collars that have accurate medical info for a rider's safety? fold.quit. Big Z you keep on..the thought of you doing R&D on sweaty filthy sacks is awe inspiring may all boils burst your way.

The UCI lets these guys hold licenses, what kind of code of conduct do they maintain ?. Vaughters should have to read all the riders rights,anti doping comments he has made to a jury or judge or cellmate

If there is smoking gun evidence on these guys,even the team trial results should be reviewed.All the national championships that they all won or placed should be reviewed. And if it is true.6 month suspension id handed out rather than a lifetime ban the USADA is a joke and is really grabbing press by an all Armstrong campaign

I think you make some good points, and I respect the perspective.

For me, this isn't about Armstrong, it's about rooting out some of the worst influences in the sport over the last couple of decades. Dirty doctors, team managers, and the most influential name in the sport...still. I think IF there are suspended sentences that's a trade well worth making.

Enough of persecuting the little fish. For once there's a chance to take out the big fish. Let's see what happens.

 

[Random Direction]

I think you make some good points, and I respect the perspective.

For me, this isn't about Armstrong, it's about rooting out some of the worst influences in the sport over the last couple of decades. Dirty doctors, team managers, and the most influential name in the sport...still. I think IF there are suspended sentences that's a trade well worth making.

Enough of persecuting the little fish. For once there's a chance to take out the big fish. Let's see what happens.

Sharks may well smell blood and starting a feeding frenzy on other sharks. All hell breaks loose, sharks are condemned to hell eternal, random inquiries, a bunch of relative innocents punished, TDF stopped for a year and a Truth and Reconciliation panel where everyone confesses in public to a panel led by CAS.

 

[Epicycle]

If Big George is out of cycling next year, what on Earth will compel him to attend the arbitration hearing? I can't think of anything except his personal sense of honor, whatever that is.

Retiring doesn't necessarily mean he plans on leaving cycling. The clothing company he has with his family seems like it does well but he's been making good money as a top domestique. I wouldn't be surprised if he's got plans to become a DS. Seems like he'd be a natural given all of his experience.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I wouldn't be surprised if he's got plans to become a DS. Seems like he'd be a natural given all of his experience.

George Hincapie as a DS?!?! Great cyclist and a great guy, but has the tactical acumen of Stijn Devolder.

 

[Hugh Januss]

pretty pathetic that witnesses can be named in the Armstrong case, all have pro racing credentials that are not subject to any current suspension .So Vaughters knew of Lance's use but said nothing until compelled by the USADA? resign.
George suited up on pro team after pro team but needle shared w Armstrong..resign. Levi sells wrist band mounted dog collars that have accurate medical info for a rider's safety? fold.quit. Big Z you keep on..the thought of you doing R&D on sweaty filthy sacks is awe inspiring may all boils burst your way.

The UCI lets these guys hold licenses, what kind of code of conduct do they maintain ?. Vaughters should have to read all the riders rights,anti doping comments he has made to a jury or judge or cellmate

If there is smoking gun evidence on these guys,even the team trial results should be reviewed.All the national championships that they all won or placed should be reviewed. And if it is true.6 month suspension id handed out rather than a lifetime ban the USADA is a joke and is really grabbing press by an all Armstrong campaign

And maybe they should, immediately after Lance confesses. ******!

 

[skippy]

Seems that " Anything Goes " with this USADA publicity stunt , from " tainted personalities " to review what they had already decided were " Facts " , thru to " witnesses " WHOM YOU , THE FORUM , ALREADY HAD ACCUSED OF BEING USERS being granted " suspended sentences "!

Will even 1% believe that Lance was treated in a fair manner Or give a monkeys for anything that the usada slide under the radar whilst the USA are busy electing the next President ?

Perhaps there should be a subsection of the forum called " THE GLEE CLUB "!

 

[Cavalier]

Seems that " Anything Goes " with this USADA publicity stunt , from " tainted personalities " to review what they had already decided were " Facts " , thru to " witnesses " WHOM YOU , THE FORUM , ALREADY HAD ACCUSED OF BEING USERS being granted " suspended sentences "!

Will even 1% believe that Lance was treated in a fair manner Or give a monkeys for anything that the usada slide under the radar whilst the USA are busy electing the next President ?

Perhaps there should be a subsection of the forum called " THE GLEE CLUB "!

Lance was treated equally and fairly right up until he refused to do what everyone else did - appear in front of USADA and give evidence like everybody else.

He had his opportunity and missed the boat. I'll always be filled with "glee" anytime someone who wilfully attempts to cover up a doping racket until their dying day gets caught out.

 

[UlleGigo]

Enough of persecuting the little fish. For once there's a chance to take out the big fish. Let's see what happens.

Yep. Why go after the foot soldiers when the Don is there for the taking?

 

[Adamastor]

Sorry if it was already mentioned here (I have difficulties in keeping up with 380+ pages), but in today's L'Equipe Damien Ressiot confirms the leak in De Telegraaf about the 5 American riders on the Tour benefits most the Armstrong side in views of destabilising USADA's procedure.

Ressiot mentions that Bruyneel writes a daily column during the Tour in...De Telegraaf! Do we know the orogin of the leak?

The story about the 6 months ban is clearly defined in article 10.5.3 of the world anti-doping Code, promising 1/4 of the sanction to repentant dopers. If De Telegraaf receives a hint from a guy like Bruyneel, they can easily write about it!

 

[Oldman]

Seems that " Anything Goes " with this USADA publicity stunt , from " tainted personalities " to review what they had already decided were " Facts " , thru to " witnesses " WHOM YOU , THE FORUM , ALREADY HAD ACCUSED OF BEING USERS being granted " suspended sentences "!

Will even 1% believe that Lance was treated in a fair manner Or give a monkeys for anything that the usada slide under the radar whilst the USA are busy electing the next President ?

Perhaps there should be a subsection of the forum called " THE GLEE CLUB "!

You apparently haven't been following this completely. There is no deal for suspended "sentences" from USADA. It is likely that Lance found a way to leak this story or the press put two and two together when many riders withdrew from Olympics selection. Doesn't take a genius to draw a conclusion.
Watch and learn.

 

[Adamastor]

Bruyneel's column in today's Telegraaf (Google translation). Funny how he is slowly diverting the interest from an Armstrong case to an Vaughters/Hamilton etc case...

"All the uproar that has arisen around the USADA story in this newspaper among others, proves once again that it is a good choice has been that I did not go to this tour. By taking a step on it to turn, I keep the team in the lee of the research to include Lance Armstrong and me running. "

"On the possible deal that USADA with five former teammates of Lance has made, I can be very meaningful. I found it very strange that the four riders themselves recently afmeldden for the Olympics. For American athletes, the Olympics is something sacred. Die are the highlight of their career. Whether this case has something to do, I can hardly say. Although this matter is too delicate for me to go into depth here. "

Read the full column by Johan Bruyneel in the paid online version of The Guardian (free for subscribers or single 1.10 euro)

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/tour-de-france-2012/12501219/__Bruyneel__Heel_vreemd__.html

 

[rhubroma]

For those not clear on what hypocrisy means, do you all suppose Levi will get to keep all his wins of the past few years?

Hypocrisy has got nothing to do with it. This is purely about bringing LA down, not about properly dispensing justice to every doped rider in the sport. If deals need to be cut to get the big fish, so be it. Also because he certainly isn't going to be the easy prey, rather he has always been the greatest predator.

Lance is inevitably the person on whom everyone has to concentrate.

And I find it ironic that others have been accused of hypocrisy in their positions in favor of this or that rider, while never concealing their contempt for the Texan; when Armstorng is the most hypocritical person, a born charlatan (7 Tour wins), a born opportunist when his own interests are involved (Livestrong), not just his cylcing interests but his wholly despicable personal interests.

 

[Muriel]

Bruyneel's column in today's Telegraaf (Google translation). Funny how he is slowly diverting the interest from an Armstrong case to an Vaughters/Hamilton etc case...

"All the uproar that has arisen around the USADA story in this newspaper among others, proves once again that it is a good choice has been that I did not go to this tour. By taking a step on it to turn, I keep the team in the lee of the research to include Lance Armstrong and me running. "

Personally, I suspect he had little "choice" in the matter.